[QuinlanSilvanos]

Has anybody understood what exactly prompted the Jaghut under the leadership of Hood to fight Death? How did they fight? We are speaking of the age of the Holds, but have no detail if the Hold Of Death had a King before Hood, so i am confused. Did they fight a specific enemy in the war of the hundred million Jaghuts? If yes, who was that enemy? If not, wtf did they do, commit mass suicide to pave the way for Hood's ascendancy and mastery of the Hold Of Death? And why would they want to do it? I remember the dialogue between Kallor and Spinnock, and it left me with the sense that what the Jaghut did then, it was a sacrifice for the benefit of all mortals. What prompted them to make the sacrifice and what kind of sacrifice was it? I know the outcome, the destruction of their communal way of life, but this is the effect only. I cannot imagine why and what they did. I mean, they were practically immortal, or extremely long lived at the least.

[Aptorian]

There is a quote in DOD. It's when gruntle is dreaming of Treach meeting a jaguar soletaken. The Jaguar mentions several of the elder races, among them the Jaghut which she says "Sit and wait for death" or something along those lines.

This to me suggests that the Jaghut may have thought for a different kind of afterlife. Maybe they helped build this Jaghut Bridge of death, or maybe what they thought for was their freedom from the death world. Their right to seek oblivion rather than their souls rotting away in some death warren.

[QuinlanSilvanos]

Aptorian, on 09 February 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:

There is a quote in DOD. It's when gruntle is dreaming of Treach meeting a jaguar soletaken. The Jaguar mentions several of the elder races, among them the Jaghut which she says "Sit and wait for death" or something along those lines.

This to me suggests that the Jaghut may have thought for a different kind of afterlife. Maybe they helped build this Jaghut Bridge of death, or maybe what they thought for was their freedom from the death world. Their right to seek oblivion rather than their souls rotting away in some death warren.

I know of the quote. I have read DOD. I also remember from somewhere that the Jaghut preferred oblivion to the death hold, that they never imagined or wanted an afterlife. So, what prompted one of them to become the lord of Death, the principal hoarder of souls for an afterlife? And what did he use to convince so many millions of Jaghuts to help him? The war (i still don't understand what kind of war it was) was lost, so he became lord of Death by the dying of the millions of the dead, something which does not explain to me what he intended to do by becoming the Lord of Death.

[Hinter]

I believe Hood was a reluctant God of Death who did not choose the role, and he wasn't the jaghut leader. Remember when ghost hedge finds the (dead) king of the jaghut rotting on the ice throne? That wasn't Hood, but unfortunately my almost senile memory is failing me at the moment.

[HoosierDaddy]

Hinter, on 10 February 2010 - 03:55 AM, said:

I believe Hood was a reluctant God of Death who did not choose the role, and he wasn't the jaghut leader. Remember when ghost hedge finds the (dead) king of the jaghut rotting on the ice throne? That wasn't Hood, but unfortunately my almost senile memory is failing me at the moment.

Yes it was. Trust me.

[MTS]

It is.

Spoiler

That corpse comes back from the dead at the end of DoD, and it's Hood. (there's a pun in there I'm sure)

[Hinter]

H.D., on 10 February 2010 - 04:05 AM, said:

Hinter, on 10 February 2010 - 03:55 AM, said:

I believe Hood was a reluctant God of Death who did not choose the role, and he wasn't the jaghut leader. Remember when ghost hedge finds the (dead) king of the jaghut rotting on the ice throne? That wasn't Hood, but unfortunately my almost senile memory is failing me at the moment.

Yes it was. Trust me.

I've played Mafia against you, why would I possibly trust you?

This post has been edited by Hinter: 10 February 2010 - 04:12 AM

[Soulessdreamer]

Yeah the war was definately over what happens to someone after they die though I was never quite sure which side was which.

TTFN

[meili]

Spoiler

Well I think they would look back on it and laugh at the foolishness/irony of it all.

Who knows? Maybe some charismatic leader way back in ancient times talked them into it.

[rhulad]

I get that they were fighting for oblivion, but what exactly were they fighting? How does one fight and kill something insubstantial such as death? Were they at war with all the souls in the death hold?

[Sinisdar Toste]

rhulad, on 10 February 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

I get that they were fighting for oblivion, but what exactly were they fighting? How does one fight and kill something insubstantial such as death? Were they at war with all the souls in the death hold?

we really have no idea. all is speculation at this point, but i feel that the jaghut were sacrificing themselves to create a realm of death for mortals, who up until this point were also greeted with oblivion, and while thats ok for a jaghut who lives thousands and thousands of years, mortals (those who rarely live past fifty) really aren't so cool with it.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 10 February 2010 - 06:14 PM

[QuinlanSilvanos]

Sinisdar Toste, on 10 February 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

rhulad, on 10 February 2010 - 05:08 PM, said:

I get that they were fighting for oblivion, but what exactly were they fighting? How does one fight and kill something insubstantial such as death? Were they at war with all the souls in the death hold?

we really have no idea. all is speculation at this point, but i feel that the jaghut were sacrificing themselves to create a realm of death for mortals, who up until this point were also greeted with oblivion, and while thats ok for a jaghut who lives thousands and thousands of years, mortals (those who rarely live past fifty) really aren't so cool with it.

This is my initial thought, but i cannot imagine how it would work. It would require the absence of a Hold of Death prior to the Jaghut's war that created it. Could it be this? The Jaghut sacrificed themselves to create a Hold of Death? Wow! This must be the largest sacrifice EVER! It fits, because i cannot imagine anything else making Kallor almost weep.

[Soulessdreamer]

Maybe they were trying to destroy the warren/hold so there "souls" wouldn't be drawn there. something like what happened to shadow only intentional.

TTFN

[Kurt Montandon]

Perhaps they were fighting the lack of choice. That is, they were satisfied with oblivion ... but understood that others might not be, and were unhappy with the injustice of it. Makes me wonder what the Forkrul Assail thought of the entire business ...

[HoosierDaddy]

Some FA fought in the war, didn't they? Along with some Eleint, if I remember correctly.

[MTS]

Eleint did, not sure about the Forkrul Assail.

Here's the quote anyway:

Toll The Hounds page 351 said:

Kallor considered that for a moment, and then he grunted and said, ‘I am not well versed in Jaghut
history. What war was this? The K’Chain Che’Malle? The Forkrul Assail?’ He squinted at the dragon.
‘Or, perhaps, you Eleint?’
There was sorrow in its tone as the dragon replied, ‘No. There were some among us who chose to
join in this war, to fight alongside the Jaghut armies—’
‘Armies? Jaghut armies?’
‘Yes, an entire people gathered, a host of singular will. Legions uncountable. Their standard was
rage, their clarion call injustice. When they marched, swords beating on shields, time itself found measure,
a hundred million hearts of edged iron. Not even you, High King, could imagine such a sight—your
empire was less than a squall to that terrible storm.’

[QuinlanSilvanos]

MTS, on 11 February 2010 - 12:57 PM, said:

Eleint did, not sure about the Forkrul Assail.

Here's the quote anyway:

Toll The Hounds page 351 said:

Kallor considered that for a moment, and then he grunted and said, 'I am not well versed in Jaghut
history. What war was this? The K'Chain Che'Malle? The Forkrul Assail?' He squinted at the dragon.
'Or, perhaps, you Eleint?'
There was sorrow in its tone as the dragon replied, 'No. There were some among us who chose to
join in this war, to fight alongside the Jaghut armies—'
'Armies? Jaghut armies?'
'Yes, an entire people gathered, a host of singular will. Legions uncountable. Their standard was
rage, their clarion call injustice. When they marched, swords beating on shields, time itself found measure,
a hundred million hearts of edged iron. Not even you, High King, could imagine such a sight—your
empire was less than a squall to that terrible storm.'

This quote is what made me to create this thread. I hope in TCG i will get some answers, or perhaps some future trilogy about Jaghuts.

[rhulad]

Sinisdar Toste, on 10 February 2010 - 06:13 PM, said:

we really have no idea. all is speculation at this point, but i feel that the jaghut were sacrificing themselves to create a realm of death for mortals, who up until this point were also greeted with oblivion, and while thats ok for a jaghut who lives thousands and thousands of years, mortals (those who rarely live past fifty) really aren't so cool with it.

The Jaghut sacrificing themselves to create a realm to hold mortal souls seems very plausible, but this raises the question, on who's behalf were the jaghut doing this? If it was at a time before the realm of death existed, one would likely conclude that there weren't a lot of short lived mortals like humans around. I'm clearly just speculating, but I doubt that the Jaghut would do something like that for the Imass.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

H.D., on 11 February 2010 - 07:00 AM, said:

Some FA fought in the war, didn't they? Along with some Eleint, if I remember correctly.

I thought that originally too because I remembered a quote about FA fighting in some battle. I just found the quote, its later in TtH p. 592. Kallor is just reminiscing on his life and the battles he fought.

Quote

A battlefield spread out on all sides. Heaps of the dead and dying, human and beast, Jheck and Tartheno Toblakai, a scattering of Forkrul Assail each one surrounded by hundres of the fallen, the ones protecting their warleaders, the ones who failed in taking the demons down.

[Soulessdreamer]

The FA fought a war about justice for/against/in the name of wasn't clear (to me at least). One of several, though some of the others were by other races.

TTFN