[Excellence]

I think I've worked out how Ryll can be in bothe places. The answer lies with Ho too.

It's all in Mappo's first conversation beginning of Deadhouse Gates.

Says he clashed with his brother Treach, contemporously known as Trake now long ago. Outside Li Heng on Quon Tali eons ago. The Nepth Trell said he was d'ivers jackal then. This makes sense because Crimson Guard shows him revered as the Man-Jackal by the Seti.

So. Ryll was FIRST a jackal shaper. At some point one form left the continent, came to Seven Cities, assumed the wolf shape that would later speak to Mappo.

And this can make sense, because Ho had a falling out with his selves -- he didn't exert enough unifying control; and indeed it seems that separate from central controll diverse d'ver selves can assume individuality.

Ho was a parallel contrast to Ryll. It also explains why the original Ryll was a huge jackal thing, when the Ryll we know is now desert wolves, and growing in number.

What d'ya think?

[Tarcanus]

It's as good as any of the other theories that are floating around, based on what we have to go on.

Personally, I don't like the idea of being able to lose control of your 'selves' when you are a D'ivers. It seems to me that if you could, there would be a heck of a lot more same named, yet different animal'd, D'ivers running around. I find it hard to believe that only two that we've run across in the novels have had the issues of other selves separating and doing their own thing. After the debacle that was the calling of the Crippled God, I don't have any confidence in mages to be able to always control their other D'ivers selves when they become D'ivers.

It just feels like something superfluous that was thrown in the make D'ivers 'more interesting'. But that's just me. I'd like it if there was some other explanation - magical battles on the day when Treach and Ryll went at it, that split Ryll apart. Much better than, "Ryll lost control of his other selves".

[Harvester]

Excellence, on 04 February 2010 - 12:28 PM, said:

I think I've worked out how Ryll can be in bothe places. The answer lies with Ho too.

It's all in Mappo's first conversation beginning of Deadhouse Gates.

Says he clashed with his brother Treach, contemporously known as Trake now long ago. Outside Li Heng on Quon Tali eons ago. The Nepth Trell said he was d'ivers jackal then. This makes sense because Crimson Guard shows him revered as the Man-Jackal by the Seti.

So. Ryll was FIRST a jackal shaper. At some point one form left the continent, came to Seven Cities, assumed the wolf shape that would later speak to Mappo.

And this can make sense, because Ho had a falling out with his selves -- he didn't exert enough unifying control; and indeed it seems that separate from central controll diverse d'ver selves can assume individuality.

Ho was a parallel contrast to Ryll. It also explains why the original Ryll was a huge jackal thing, when the Ryll we know is now desert wolves, and growing in number.

What d'ya think?

Let's quote Treach to answer that.

Quote

Ryllandaras, old friend - we fell out, clashed, then clashed again on another continent. He had gone the farthest, found a way to control the gifts - Soletaken and D'ivers both. White Jackal. Ay'tog. Agkor.



- Treach

MoI, UK MMPB, p.314

[Sinisdar Toste]

personally i've come to believe that ryllandaras managed to bottle up all his shapeshifting madness - cause that is a well documented side effect of being a shapeshifter - inside one of his d'ivers jackals, then cut that one loose. the madness twisted the lone d'ivers into the man-jackal, and ryllandaras d'ivers was free to live a life of religious fulfillment so to speak, as whatever form he might choose.

[HoosierDaddy]

Here are a couple of threads where it is discussed more thoroughly, Excellence. Especially the second thread.

http://forum.malazan...showtopic=15422

http://forum.malazan...opic=13721&st=0

[Excellence]

Forgot about Teach's token pov in book 3. Thanks for that. And the links.

With Ryll we've seen something not elsewhere. You can change your form. Like the Twin Autobots in Revenge of the Fallen, Bee in the first movie. Don't like jackal, lets try ay'tog for a winter or two.