[Tsundoku]

 Pilgrim, on 31 January 2010 - 12:16 AM, said:

The book's gonna come out, and I'm sure it will be incredible, and I believe that after this one, the rest will be much faster in production, as he has had plenty of time to work out the remainder of the series.

I really wish I had your confidence. I'm just adopting a "wait and see" attitude. I figure if he writes it - cool, and if he doesn't - whatever. I'm not going to do my nut, there's so much more out there for me to read at the moment (and hopefully in the future). A lot of it is in the "to read" pile on my table.

Quote

And yes, I'm infinitely grateful that I'm an Erikson fan, as he's positively the Old Faithful of fantasy authors.

Now that's a quote for the cover!

... unless it's prostate-related.

This post has been edited by Sombra: 31 January 2010 - 01:23 AM

[Yellow]

What happens if the book comes out and it's not very good? People will hit the roof, and any pressure that Martin is getting now will pale in comparison as people wait for the next book.

I find the whole thing funny - that people care enough to start slagging the guy off, and that people defend him so zealously (as though they were defending themselves). Who gives a shit?

And let's face it, if Pat didn't expect a huge backlash to the post, he's got his head up his arse.

This post has been edited by Yellow: 31 January 2010 - 09:38 AM

[caladanbrood]

 Yellow, on 31 January 2010 - 09:36 AM, said:

What happens if the book comes out and it's not very good? People will hit the roof, and any pressure that Martin is getting now will pale in comparison as people wait for the next book.

Isn't that what happened with aFfC?

[Yellow]

I dunno I haven't actually read any of his books.

I don't think he's ever going to finish the series, so I haven't started reading it.

[QuickTidal]

 caladanbrood, on 31 January 2010 - 12:31 PM, said:

 Yellow, on 31 January 2010 - 09:36 AM, said:

What happens if the book comes out and it's not very good? People will hit the roof, and any pressure that Martin is getting now will pale in comparison as people wait for the next book.

Isn't that what happened with aFfC?

Indeed, that is exactly the problem...and I maintain that the REASON for AFFC doing so poorly was the publisher decision to split the book into two volumes by way of POV's....they picked the more lifeless POV's for AFFC, meanwhile MOST of the people we really care about will be in the next volume. Had it stayed as one book, or split down the middle storywise it would have fared better methinks.

That said, no one should feel so entitled. As far as I am concerned Martin can stop writing the ASOIAF books anytime he likes. It's his creation and he can basically say "Eff you all!" and not finish it at all....and part of me thinks he should, just to shut all the little smarmy, whiney, entitled-feeling bitches up.

[Paran]

While I do like to burst the bubble on the GRRM supporters (especially since he took the Ostrich approach to all thing ADWD related and started booting ppl off his blog for asking) I really don't think that Pat's blog was the forum for all that vitriol, especially the stuff at the end with repetitive insults/posts. I feel for Pat - he runs a great site and he didn't need to go through all that cr@p from the ppl with a bone to pick and those taking any GRRM insult personally. Keep on doing what your doing Pat, I for one really appreciate it.

For anyone wanting to vent on the GRRM/aSoIaf subject, visit http://grrrm.livejournal.com/ , a humourous blog dedicated to the poking fun at Martin, where those unimpressed by the way he's treated his fans can all find a sympathetic voice.

As I alighted to previously, I personally can't agree with the way GRRM is behaving - constantly hawking ridiculous memorabilia, water logged copies of books that never sold that well at prices far above those online, using the popularity he gained from the first 3 aSoIaF books to sell anthologies and other stuff he edits while constantly blogging, going to conventions, etc. It's like he's loving the popularity and adulation, but can't be bothered to do the work that will keep in going. It smacks of hypocrisy and makes a lot of people quite upset. It's been over 10 years since A Song of Swords was published and in that time Erikson's delivered 8 full Malazan novels, Bakker 5 novels, etc, etc. AFFC really put a lot of things into question re: taking longer = better book, art can't be rushed, etc especially in the context that the other books never take anywhere near as long. Now that ADWD has taken equally as long, and the fact that he promised it would be delivered shortly after AFFC, then promised in Jan 08 that it would be his last update and it's still going with a hopeful completion this year, the pressure to deliver an excellent novel - any less and his popularity, fame and credibility take a major hit. I would love to see a really great novel come out of him, because I think the series has great potential, but 10 years on from ASOS and it won't be easy.

[meili]

Well as one of the fans of GRRM and poster on the Asoiaf forums for 9 years now, I am not happy about the long delay in finishing the series. I am not mad though since GRRM at least has a minimum level of quality which I find more than acceptable.

I am not a fan of the cliffhangers but what can you do? It's Asoiaf, the books have always had those. *sigh* Poor Pat.

[dktorode]

I def wont be buying anymore of his books until the series is complete, ive already been suckered into buying the first 4 and god alone knows if the series will ever be completed.
Rather spend my money and reading time on something that definitely has an ending in sight...

[Captain Beardface]

I'm also of the mind to just wait it out until, if ever, GRRM finishes the series. At this point I don't remember much of what happened, and a reread of the first four would be in order. But thankfully I took a chance on another unfinished series a couple years back, that would be tMBotF and I have enjoyed it much more than GRRM's series, until such time as GRRM delivers ADWD I'll make an attempt to find the bottom of my TBR stack, which is growing exponentially faster than my read stack...

[pat5150]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the support! Problem is, this whole thing got out of hand rather quickly because I'm traveling around Southeast Asia for 6 weeks and I couldn't really monitor this spam bomb appropriately. And this thing exploded during my 26 hours of transit between Montreal and Bangkok.

I mean, we expected haters and trolls, but never anything that bad. You have no idea the amount of support I got from people in the industry over this. But that's the internet for you!

Flying to Kuala Lumpur this afternoon!

Cheers,

Patrick

[alestar]

 Paran, on 01 February 2010 - 03:34 AM, said:

While I do like to burst the bubble on the GRRM supporters (especially since he took the Ostrich approach to all thing ADWD related and started booting ppl off his blog for asking) I really don't think that Pat's blog was the forum for all that vitriol, especially the stuff at the end with repetitive insults/posts. I feel for Pat - he runs a great site and he didn't need to go through all that cr@p from the ppl with a bone to pick and those taking any GRRM insult personally. Keep on doing what your doing Pat, I for one really appreciate it.

For anyone wanting to vent on the GRRM/aSoIaf subject, visit http://grrrm.livejournal.com/ , a humourous blog dedicated to the poking fun at Martin, where those unimpressed by the way he's treated his fans can all find a sympathetic voice.

As I alighted to previously, I personally can't agree with the way GRRM is behaving - constantly hawking ridiculous memorabilia, water logged copies of books that never sold that well at prices far above those online, using the popularity he gained from the first 3 aSoIaF books to sell anthologies and other stuff he edits while constantly blogging, going to conventions, etc. It's like he's loving the popularity and adulation, but can't be bothered to do the work that will keep in going. It smacks of hypocrisy and makes a lot of people quite upset. It's been over 10 years since A Song of Swords was published and in that time Erikson's delivered 8 full Malazan novels, Bakker 5 novels, etc, etc. AFFC really put a lot of things into question re: taking longer = better book, art can't be rushed, etc especially in the context that the other books never take anywhere near as long. Now that ADWD has taken equally as long, and the fact that he promised it would be delivered shortly after AFFC, then promised in Jan 08 that it would be his last update and it's still going with a hopeful completion this year, the pressure to deliver an excellent novel - any less and his popularity, fame and credibility take a major hit. I would love to see a really great novel come out of him, because I think the series has great potential, but 10 years on from ASOS and it won't be easy.

Thanks Paran, you summed up it up perfectly (for me, anyway...)

[Werthead]

Quote

For anyone wanting to vent on the GRRM/aSoIaf subject, visit - , a humourous blog dedicated to the poking fun at Martin, where those unimpressed by the way he's treated his fans can all find a sympathetic voice.

Well, if you mean 'find a sympathetic voice' by encouraging trolling attacks on other websites and blogs, making personal attacks on other fans and feeding deliberate misinformation and lies to fans, than yes, they do an excellent job of that Luckily, most people don't buy it.

Quote

As I alighted to previously, I personally can't agree with the way GRRM is behaving - constantly hawking ridiculous memorabilia, water logged copies of books that never sold that well at prices far above those online,

This is a pretty valid complaint, however, especially since GRRM isn't exactly poor these days.

Quote

using the popularity he gained from the first 3 aSoIaF books to sell anthologies and other stuff he edits

This is a bit odd though, since he was able to publish the first 3 ASoIaF books thanks to the popularity he had gained from editing anthologies and other stuff in the 1980s. That seems turnabout and fair play, personally.

Quote

It's like he's loving the popularity and adulation, but can't be bothered to do the work that will keep in going. It smacks of hypocrisy and makes a lot of people quite upset.

Well, ignorant people, sure. People who've actually followed the development of the book as it has gone along will have seen how much work was being poured into the book and what the process/progress has been.

But if you get all your information from troll sites like the one posted above, than yes, I can understand why readers may not have a good impression of GRRM since going by their misinformation he spends all his time watching football and then going to write non-ASoIaF material (which I would love to read one day, as I keep hearing so much about it, but no-one seems able to actually elucidate what this material actually is). But that isn't exactly the author's fault, is it?

Quote

It's been over 10 years since A Song of Swords was published and in that time Erikson's delivered 8 full Malazan novels, Bakker 5 novels, etc, etc.

This is true, and MALAZAN at least is as stucturally complex, if not moreso, as AFFC/ADWD. However, Erikson has overcome those issues by simply ignoring them, resulting in a broken timeline and continuity that doesn't make much sense. The toing and froing between characters and continents does mean this is all fudgeable to some extent, however. The same solution to ASoIaF would result in a much more obviously flawed storyline.

Quote

AFFC really put a lot of things into question re: taking longer = better book, art can't e rushed, etc especially in the context that the other books never take anywhere near as long.

AFFC is the weakest book in the series, certainly, and it arrived at the end of the longest wait in the series. However, AGoT and ACoK both took longer to write, which does put the above analysis in some doubt. ADWD is more or less at the point of becoming the longest book in the series to write, so if it sucks as well, there may be more to this argument.

Quote

Now that ADWD has taken equally as long, and the fact that he promised it would be delivered shortly after AFFC,

Promise? There was a 'hope' it would be delivered shortly after AFFC, but never a promise. However, sticking it in the back of the book itself did make it appear to be a promise signed in blood even if it never was, so fair enough.

[Abyss]

GRRM did say, after FEAST, that a significant chunk of DANCE was done. Infer what you will, but it seemed to moi that he was saying there would be a minimal delay for DANCE, contrary to what really happened. Hence the incrimental increase in frustration amongst vocal negative internutters. Ending a couple of storylines in such obvious cliffhangers, something he avoided in prior books, didn't help his case.

The point that often gets overlooked is that those complaints are only a small number of really loud people on the internut. Even the idiocy inflicted on Pat's blog amounts to a small but loud group who don't actually represent the tens of thousands of people who will buy DANCE, whenever it's finally released.

People speak with their wallets, and ultimately that's what will happen here.

- Abyss, needs a louder wallet.

[Werthead]

Indeed.

In the meantime, the TV series has been picked up

[Abyss]

 Werthead, on 02 March 2010 - 08:20 PM, said:

Indeed.

In the meantime, the TV series has been picked up

i'm not surpised. HBO wants another Rome.

 QuickTidal, on 31 January 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

...and I maintain that the REASON for AFFC doing so poorly was the publisher decision to split the book into two volumes by way of POV's......

Cutpasted from wiki:

"Like its predecessor A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows was nominated for the Hugo Award for Best Novel, one of the two most
prestigious awards in science fiction and fantasy publishing, although it lost out the 2006 ballot to Robert Charles Wilson's Spin. The novel also received nominations for both the Locus and British Fantasy Awards in 2006, and was the first novel in the sequence to
debut at the top of the New York Times bestseller list, a feat among fantasy writers only previously achieved by David Eddings, Robert Jordan and Neil Gaiman."

Fared poorly, i think not.

I hear you if you're saying it just wasn't as good as it should/could have been, but the thing got tall dollars and nominations.

And say what we will about Jordan or Eddings, Gaiman isn't exactly fiction for the moron masses, so those sales digits mean something.


- Abyss, ...should probably give GRRM a subforum on OtherLit one of these days... but will watch some football first... ..ooooo, miniatures!!!! ...and DONUTS!!!!

[Mirthmonkey]

 Abyss, on 02 March 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

People speak with their wallets, and ultimately that's what will happen here.

Ahem... this! I realize Martin can write or not write his books at any pace he wants. I realize he's not my bitch. It's his life. He owes us nothing.

At the same time, I once loved the Song of Ice and Fire books and now I just don't care. It's been too long. Book four came out five years after book three. It looks like book five will be at least five years after book four. Hell, I'm not even 100% positive I ever read book four, it was such a long wait for it. I'm pretty sure I did, but while I vaguely remember the conclusion of the third book, I don't really remember a thing from book four. At any rate, I moved on long ago. I don't remember or care enough now. I suspect many other readers have done the same.

[Abyss]

 Mirthmonkey, on 02 March 2010 - 09:45 PM, said:

...I don't really remember a thing from book four. At any rate, I moved on long ago. I don't remember ...

Stuff happened, people died, there was some incest. There, you're ready for Book Five.

- Abyss, fan of condensced classics.

[polishgenius]

 QuickTidal, on 31 January 2010 - 04:03 PM, said:

publisher decision to split the book into two volumes by way of POV's....

What makes you think it was a publisher decision? I mean, it was too long to be published, but it was Martin who decided to write two separate novels and where to split it rather than write one monster and have it published in two parts (despite the European market doing that for a lot of them and the UK publishers for aSoS).

[Shadow of Shadowthrone]

Never noticed there was a George RR Martin subforum here. This is certainly an old topic! Anyway, I would like to clear up a thing. The vitriol and hate posted that day was done by one person, and he blamed it on us out of spite (he got banned from our site). And by us I mean folks over at "Is Winter Coming", where people banned from westeros.org due to .. ah different opinions can gather and talk freely about the Long Wait. I sent Pat an apology the moment I was told what had happened and an explanation.

This post has been edited by Shadow of Shadowthrone: 15 March 2011 - 06:10 PM

[Abyss]

 Shadow of Shadowthrone, on 15 March 2011 - 06:09 PM, said:

Never noticed there was a George RR Martin subforum here. ...

That's because there wasn't until about two hours ago.