Help
I just bought translated (czech) copy of Reaperīs Gale to my father (oh yeah, Reaperīs Gale is fresh for Czechs) and saw another enfilade of my "favourite" translator. OK, I take it, translating of something huge as MBoF is hard and you make mistakes (especially with so quick translating...erm...), but to my mind came another thing.
Is better to translate phonetically or transcribe names and let reader choose? We have from Awl - "Oul" etc. It looks useless for me, if you wont change phonetically names - bcause Anomander in this case would look more like Enomendr.
And second thing - my english fails in accurate translation of "Rake" in its MBoF meaning. Any synonyms? In czech he has ridiculous alias "Long hair". OK, there are worse crimes... from Iron Bars to "Quenched Sword" for example...
Poor dad...
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Translation traps
#1
Ulrik 
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 01:21 PM
Adept Ulrik - Highest Marshall of Quick Ben's Irregulars
Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
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Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
- Fiddler
#2
caladanbrood
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:44 PM
"Rake" has a few meanings in english. The two that spring directly to mind are a garden implement for gathering leaves, and a man who behaves with "frequently immoral conduct"... not sure which of those applies to Anomander 
Names are notoriously badly translated - I watched one of the Harry Potter films (don't shoot me) in Rome a few years ago, with Italian subtitles, and some of those names were side-splittingly funny. "Quenched Sword" is a good one though, I like that! Teehee.
Names are notoriously badly translated - I watched one of the Harry Potter films (don't shoot me) in Rome a few years ago, with Italian subtitles, and some of those names were side-splittingly funny. "Quenched Sword" is a good one though, I like that! Teehee.
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti tęde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
#3
Illuyankas
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:00 PM
I like the word quench. Quench quench quench. She could quench my sword, if you know what I mean.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isnt me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like hes me. Look down, back up, where are you? Youre in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. Whats in your hand, back at me. I have it, its an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. Im on a quorl.
#4
Ulrik
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:06 PM
Or hardened... Its my translation, simply process to make steel harder (and in Iron Bars case - Sword:))...so I hope quench is also possible:)
Its my translation, simply process to make steel harder (and in Iron Bars case - Sword:))...so I hope quench is also possible:)
Adept Ulrik - Highest Marshall of Quick Ben's Irregulars
Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
- Fiddler
Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
- Fiddler
#5
Dutch
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:10 PM
Oh my. Don't start about the translated books...
I don't even dare to open the Dutch translation of Gardens of the Moon, Deadhouse Gates or Memories of Ice.
First the titels are mostly wrong and when I read the text on the back of Deadhouse Gates, I was like: Sevencity? I don't know of a place called Sevencity, I know of an island called Seven Cities.
It's like they have translated the books from German considering that they have used the translation from the German title for the series - Spel der Goden\Spiel der Goter.
A while ago I've read the Dutch versions of some WarCraft books, while they were in Dutch, it sometimes felt I was reading jibberish.
I don't even dare to open the Dutch translation of Gardens of the Moon, Deadhouse Gates or Memories of Ice.
First the titels are mostly wrong and when I read the text on the back of Deadhouse Gates, I was like: Sevencity? I don't know of a place called Sevencity, I know of an island called Seven Cities.
It's like they have translated the books from German considering that they have used the translation from the German title for the series - Spel der Goden\Spiel der Goter.
A while ago I've read the Dutch versions of some WarCraft books, while they were in Dutch, it sometimes felt I was reading jibberish.
Sappers have a saying, he muttered. "Wide eyed stupid"
#6
Ozymandiac
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 04:17 PM
I don't think it should be translated, the names should be left the way they were. Like DutchMasteroftheDeck, I also saw (and read) the Dutch versions of GotM and DG. One example is the way they treated D'ivers, which was 'translated' into D'uikers (because the Dutch word for a person who dives is duiker). This, unfortunately, looks a lot like the name of the historian Duiker.
It's a good thing Duiker wasn't a D'ivers..
It's a good thing Duiker wasn't a D'ivers..
"Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
#7
Illuyankas
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 04:24 PM
Actually, D'uikers sounds like the perfect name for Duiker if he was a D'ivers.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isnt me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like hes me. Look down, back up, where are you? Youre in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. Whats in your hand, back at me. I have it, its an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. Im on a quorl.
#8
Ulrik
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 04:34 PM
Well, is logic and good if you translate names with meaning (Smiles, Fiddler, Quick...). Worse is when you do not translate all (we have Whiskeyjack in english form, because translation looked to interpreter too "uncool" - damn her!) or to invent new ones - like Tattersail who is in czech version Besana and it doesnt have any meaning, its purely "fantasy-shit-sort" word.
As I see, dutch version is also pretty hard:) Dīuiker, hell, it gives the character whole new dimension!
As I see, dutch version is also pretty hard:) Dīuiker, hell, it gives the character whole new dimension!
Adept Ulrik - Highest Marshall of Quick Ben's Irregulars
Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
- Fiddler
Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
- Fiddler
#9
bubba
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 06:29 PM
Illuyankas, on 10 January 2010 - 03:00 PM, said:
I like the word quench. Quench quench quench. She could quench my sword, if you know what I mean.
She already did!!!......ZING!!!!!!
#11
Ulrik
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 09:31 PM
Do you think that my english is something to "show off"??))
))
Adept Ulrik - Highest Marshall of Quick Ben's Irregulars
Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
- Fiddler
Being optimisticīs worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. Itīs bloody evil.
- Fiddler
#12
HoosierDaddy
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Posted 10 January 2010 - 09:44 PM
I chose option 3.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
#13
Gothos
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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:45 PM
leave the names as they are, unless it's a translation from some arcane language and the name is meaningful (like malazan marines, for instance) - or just explain it in an adnotation...
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
#14
D'rek
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Posted 13 January 2010 - 01:22 PM
A little change to match the new language can be okay, like "Malazan" in english becoming "Malazineyte" or something like that in the Russian versions, etc. That's fine by me. But unless the author themself is being consuletd for the phonetics of each name, then it's better to just leave them as is, unless the name has an importance to its definition like the marines and such. Of course characters who *could* have a meaning but might not (like Rake, as said above) are tricky if the translator doesn't really know the books well enough to choose between them.
worrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:
I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
#15
Bauchelain the Evil
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Posted 14 January 2010 - 03:51 PM
The Italian translation is awful( as in actually cutting pieces or confusing Reaver with Reaper *sigh*) and I quitted reading them after Midnight Tides.
However I think they did the best thing with names: they left them as they are in the original version(except for things such as Seven Cities or the Errant) and simply translated it when they had to be explained.
For example, when we learn why Toes is called so, they simpy pit an incise where they translated the name, like this: Toes...Dita[Italian for Toes]... he had got that name etc etc.
However I think they did the best thing with names: they left them as they are in the original version(except for things such as Seven Cities or the Errant) and simply translated it when they had to be explained.
For example, when we learn why Toes is called so, they simpy pit an incise where they translated the name, like this: Toes...Dita[Italian for Toes]... he had got that name etc etc.
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I greet you as guests and so will not crush the life from you and devour your soul with peals of laughter. No, instead, I will make tea-Gothos
I greet you as guests and so will not crush the life from you and devour your soul with peals of laughter. No, instead, I will make tea-Gothos
#16
Salk Elan
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Posted 20 January 2010 - 03:14 PM
I may stand alone with this opinion, but the german translator did a rather fine job imo (but that takes time and it might be the reason why the german books are currently 2,5 english books behind).
Of course the english original is 'better' but that's inherent, because a translation always depends on interpretation to a certain extent, or at least 'flavour of words'. As far as I can tell, he even managed many of the plays on words.
The name-translation in general is a case sui generis, but even in that area he fared comparatively well, I think. Usually I hate it, when names are translated (often it seems just out of principle), but given the many meaningful names in MBoF it makes sense imo to translate them (if it's not too heavy-handed).
So, apart from a few exceptions such as the german translation for Surly, Crone and Whiskeyjack (german: Elster retranslated: Magpie), for which I could by no stretch of the imagination make any connection to their English origins fist, the name-translations were at least adequate enough for me to slip from german to english reading seamlessly.
As for the title translations, well let's not dwell on them.
It's not a new phenomenon that they usually have little to do with the original title, but for that I would not blame the translator but the publisher because I think that is primarily based on sales statistics (same goes for bad cover art).
Of course the english original is 'better' but that's inherent, because a translation always depends on interpretation to a certain extent, or at least 'flavour of words'. As far as I can tell, he even managed many of the plays on words.
The name-translation in general is a case sui generis, but even in that area he fared comparatively well, I think. Usually I hate it, when names are translated (often it seems just out of principle), but given the many meaningful names in MBoF it makes sense imo to translate them (if it's not too heavy-handed).
So, apart from a few exceptions such as the german translation for Surly, Crone and Whiskeyjack (german: Elster retranslated: Magpie), for which I could by no stretch of the imagination make any connection to their English origins fist, the name-translations were at least adequate enough for me to slip from german to english reading seamlessly.
As for the title translations, well let's not dwell on them.
It's not a new phenomenon that they usually have little to do with the original title, but for that I would not blame the translator but the publisher because I think that is primarily based on sales statistics (same goes for bad cover art).
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