[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

dracayr, on 26 January 2010 - 11:14 PM, said:

note on the voice compulsion of the FA: if it uses Akhrast Korvalain, it would be strange that Badalle could use it. Personally, I think it's something more primal than warrens (there seem to be many definitions of power: "presence", "pattern", words (ex.: the god in Dragnipur), maybe this is based on sth. like that).

Two explanations for that. The first is that she was using the very humanly accessible warren of Mockra, which is the Warren that has been stated to have the most natural users that don't need training to be able to use it in some degree. Second, she was somehow drawing on the power AK, which because of the FA in the region and her exposure to them, might be possible. Less likely, but possible.

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Regarding the FA, the Jade Giants, and the CG: My (more than slightly crazy) theory: I think that the JG are a "punitive army" , come to punish (destroy) the world for bringing down the CG. The FA see this as "just", and thus aim to help them. The Bonehunters, and the adjunct aim to free the CG, thus hoping to save the world by a) trying to appease the JG and the FA and b ) trying to set the CG himself against them (the CG never seemed to strive for total annihilation of the World).

The CG never tried for total annihilation of the world? Umm do you remember the Pannion Domin? And also the Edur empire? The CG is the reason that all the Edur mages were using chaos power and absolutely annihilating entire armies.

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Reasons why this makes sense (IMO):
-In DoD, many ancient forces awaken once again. Now, wouldn't the impending destruction of the world be a good reason to resurface?

In GotM they awaken one of the most powerful Jaghut Tyrants ever. And K'rul returns to the world (albeit in a limited role)
in DG some Deragoth return
in MoI we learn that a K'chain Che Malle Matron is active, along with an undead army of K'ell Hunters. Also the Wolves of Winter are reunited, and they may be the most ancient gods in this world from what some characters have said.
in HoC the most powerful member of a race of warriors comes out of what was essentially hiding and announces his presence to the world. This happens right after he frees an extremely ancient and powerful FA, who proceeds to whip his ass.
in MT an Azath dies freeing two Soletaken Eleint. Also Mael returns to an active god in the Pantheon.
...lol ok well I'm tired of this now but you get the point. Ancient beings have been returning to active life for the entire series. I believe it is all leading up to a convergence to end all convergences.

[Paran]

Hmmm, I know I'm bringing up old posts, but there are a few things that need attention, and this topic seems to be the crux of the final book/series. Who brought K'rul back, and why? Knuckles and Kili have been playing a game using their children, seemingly to use the power that has been growing in Arkhast Korvalain, but to what end? Kili seems to represent destruction, while Knuckles is balance, fate(?) - perhaps a part of justice? Does the CG want the gate for trying to return? The more likely answer is the jade swords/statues, but tied into this is the gods chaining of the CG and how they've been using his power.

[Hetan]

K'rul was brought back accidentally byt the spilling of blood on consecrated ground (Krul's belfry in GotM.
I thought we learned in Dust of Dreams that Kilmandaros and Sechul Lath were only interested in returning things to the way they were before, with the Elder Gods returning power and the younger gods either subservient or dead?

Have the gods who chained Kaminsod been using his power? I don't think so.

[KingTeholBeddict]

Paran, on 07 July 2010 - 05:15 AM, said:

Hmmm, I know I'm bringing up old posts, but there are a few things that need attention, and this topic seems to be the crux of the final book/series. Who brought K'rul back, and why? Knuckles and Kili have been playing a game using their children, seemingly to use the power that has been growing in Arkhast Korvalain, but to what end? Kili seems to represent destruction, while Knuckles is balance, fate(?) - perhaps a part of justice? Does the CG want the gate for trying to return? The more likely answer is the jade swords/statues, but tied into this is the gods chaining of the CG and how they've been using his power.

I'd just like to mention that the children are only ever mentioned as Kilimandaros', and Knuckles is one of the children.

[The Seguleh 46th]

H.D., on 13 January 2010 - 11:57 PM, said:

Reaper's Gale, 394:

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'No. Forkrul Assail and Tiste Liosan. They fought on the ruins. during what they called the Just Wars. Here, it was only a skirmish, but nobody surived. They killed each other, and the lat warrior standing had a hold in her throat and she bled out right where the Fist is standing. She was Forkrul Assail, and her last thought was about how victory proved they were right and the enemy was wrong. Then she died.'

Reaper's Gale, 395:

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'That's the thing with the Just Wars - they never end and never will because Justice is a weak god with too many names. The Liosan called it Serkanos (Osserc) and the Assail called it Rynthan (Ruthan Guud????). Anyway, no matter what language it spoke, its followers could not understand it. A mystery language, which is why it has no power because all its followers believe teh wrong things - things they just make up and nobody can agree and that's why the wars never end.'

Maybe Osserc and whoever Rynthan is grew weary of the incessant fighting, and that's why they "quit" their followers. I'm not 100% sure on this, but i think we have several examples of Gods abandoning their worshippers throughout this series. Osserc seems an arrogant sort, but definitely not a god without reason or intelligence. Possibility of an (albeit very unlikely, i do concede) ally in TCG for the Bonehunters, the new KCCM, or whomever in the works? Also, on a completely different note, i think the CG is gonna surprise us quite a bit in TCG, as i just don't see him as wanting to destroy all life on this planet. I think he would rather simply take it over and reshape its populace into something that he once was, aspect-wise. Or not. You need life after all from what i gather to attain worship and thus, power.

[Sinisdar Toste]

The Seguleh 46th, on 07 July 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

You need life after all from what i gather to attain worship and thus, power.

not quite. elemental forces like mael and MD, edgewalker and their ilk presumably existed before life, rife with power. but of course thats in no way certain. i just wouldn't say anything as hard and fast as you did there.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Sinisdar Toste, on 13 July 2010 - 03:50 PM, said:

The Seguleh 46th, on 07 July 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

You need life after all from what i gather to attain worship and thus, power.

not quite. elemental forces like mael and MD, edgewalker and their ilk presumably existed before life, rife with power. but of course thats in no way certain. i just wouldn't say anything as hard and fast as you did there.

I didn't mean it as a statement, but after reading my post again i can see where it could be construed as such. Sorry, not my intention.

The elemental forces elude me a bit in how they attain, or rather keep might be a better word, their respective power. K'rul and Mael for example needs blood for power, if i have it correct. Blood through sacrifice. Sacrifice meaning someone worshipping them enough to soak the ground (or sea) in blood to show their level of worship....or simply to appease them so nothing terrible happens on a long oversea/overland trip (or anything really). It's still worship that seemingly demands a mortal life to make or perform, IMO. That all said, i guess i really have no clue though as to the CG's parameters of worship would go though, as he seems to gain power through suffering, but said suffering does not seem to require blood either (i could be waaaaaay wrong here, not sure). Or direct worship either for that matter, as his power has been reputedly strong throughout the millennia, probably hence the need for multiple Chainings i would gather. This was basically a long-winded post of me saying i really have no idea how it all really works, but i like it!

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 14 July 2010 - 02:30 AM

[The Seguleh 46th]

After reading my recent post again, i forgot that blood is blood, meaning that it wouldn't have to come through a sacrifice per se. Forgot that K'rul was talking about feeling revitalized or whatever on his little stroll through post-Fall Stratem (or was it Korel?) due to all the blood spilled in that event. So.....i probably do have it all wrong! Sigh.......

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 14 July 2010 - 02:34 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

It was Jacuruku he was strolling around, I believe.

We're both right, the heading for that section is: Korel and Jackuruku 3 years after The Fall.

Edit: About time I did this by the way, seeing as how my post about the Just Wars has recently been quoted.

Rynthan is not Ruthan. Somewhere in DoD Knuckles is described as having the name Rynthanos or some such. Which would make more sense in the context of Sercanos and the Liosan and Rynthan and FA.

This post has been edited by H.D.: 14 July 2010 - 03:05 AM

[The Seguleh 46th]

H.D., on 14 July 2010 - 02:41 AM, said:

It was Jacuruku he was strolling around, I believe.

We're both right, the heading for that section is: Korel and Jackuruku 3 years after The Fall.

Edit: About time I did this by the way, seeing as how my post about the Just Wars has recently been quoted.

Rynthan is not Ruthan. Somewhere in DoD Knuckles is described as having the name Rynthanos or some such. Which would make more sense in the context of Sercanos and the Liosan and Rynthan and FA.

I agree, although i had forgotten about Sech/Knuckles being also named Rynthanos. He seemed intent on "starting over" or something alng those lines.....regretful anyways. And Osserc hasn't been seen by his fellow Liosans in a very, very long time. Several thousand years or more, possibly (help here would kick ass!), as i get from the comical exploits of the questing Liosan knights that their kind has been looking for him for quite awhile now. Hence my theory that they have abandoned their followers, if that is even possible to do for gods (short of wholesale slaughter via D'rek!!!). Or at least doing a really good job of not being found! (in Osserc's case anyhow)!

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 14 July 2010 - 04:41 AM