[crimsoner2]

Hi!

I've just finished the book and I loved it, but there's something I don't really understand. During chapter twenty, Apsalar and Crokus are talking about Kellanved and the first throne. As we already knew Kellanved sat on this throne and became "ruler" of the T'lan Imass. Apsalar told us that if someone wanted to claim High House Shadow they would have to kill the ruler who sat on the throne of Shadow first. Then if we apply this to the first Throne, how could the seven renegades claim it while Kellanved/Shadowthrone still "lives"? Crokus clearly says with his words : "This way, he negates the chance of anyone else finding and taking that throne". By the way, why Shadowthrone doesn't "plant his scrawny arse on the real throne of Shadow"? Apsalar saiid it's because he sat on the first throne before? So what? Couldn't he claim more than one throne at a time? Then it seems unlikely that he can achieve absolute domination by sitting on all thrones. Well, I'm sure you'll make clear to me, thanks in advance.

[Obdigore]

Most of this is 'read and find out' territory.

Just for your thinking pleasure, a basic 'theme' throughout the books is that 'power draws power into convergences.'

Perhaps Shadowthrone is not ready for the challenges that sitting on multiple thrones would bring? (this is all speculation based on snippets of numerous conversations)

As for the renegades and the first throne (Imass), it is suggested in the books that perhaps because he ascended he can no longer control them, as it must be a Mortal on that throne. However, since Erikson does everything from POV, the person stating this could be wrong, right, or some mixture of the two.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 21 December 2009 - 09:08 PM

[D'rek]

Welcome to the forums! Glad you loved HoC, some people seem not to, and I can never understand what's not to love!


The issue of why ST doesn't sit on the real Throne of Shadow on Drift Avalii is partly a Read-and-Find-Out issue, but Cutter (I believe) brings up the issue that to do so would draw attention that ST might not be ready to face.


As to the First Throne, the answer lies in Onrack and Trull's discussions just before they let Monok Ochem and Ibra Gholan catch up:

Quote

Onrack: 'The Emperor's exploitation of our abilities was... modest. Surprisingly consrained. He was then assassinated. The new Empress does not command us.'

[...]

Onrack: 'These renegades [the Unbound] serve the same master [the Crippled God] as your kin [Tiste Edur]. Should they lead one of your mortal kin to take the First Throne, thus acquiring mastery over all the T'lan Imass, do you imagine they will be as circumspect in using those armies as was Emperor Kellanved?'
Trull: 'All right. But you lead me to wonder, if the First Throne is so vulnerable, why have you not set someone of your own choosing upon it?'
Onrack: 'To command the First Throne, one must be mortal. [...]'

While we know Kellanved didn't die, but instead became Ammanas, he's no longer mortal so doesn't qualify to be upon the First Throne.

And if you notice the discrepency this causes between Onrack and Apsalar's commentary on the issue, unfortunately you'll have to wait until The Bonehunters for the issue to be clarified.

[crimsoner2]

Thanks for the replies, yeah the Shadowthrone not being mortal anymore makes sense. I think that the loving or not factor in this book is Karsa. I like this character and so wasn't annoyed by the first part, the moment when we learn that he is Toblakai is really great. And the fact that the Malazan army is not entirely decimated unlike the two precedent books cheered me up, I like those bastards! Well, I'm just starting to read Midnight Tides now and I hope it's great despite the absence of the Malazans.

PS : Sorry for my English, you understand now how it can be hard for me and others to fully understand these books when English is not your mother tongue.

This post has been edited by crimsoner2: 22 December 2009 - 03:02 PM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

crimsoner2, on 22 December 2009 - 03:02 PM, said:

Thanks for the replies, yeah the Shadowthrone not being mortal anymore makes sense. I think that the loving or not factor in this book is Karsa. I like this character and so wasn't annoyed by the first part, the moment when we learn that he is Toblakai is really great. And the fact that the Malazan army is not entirely decimated unlike the two precedent books cheered me up, I like those bastards! Well, I'm just starting to read Midnight Tides now and I hope it's great despite the absence of the Malazans.

PS : Sorry for my English, you understand now how it can be hard for me and others to fully understand these books when English is not your mother tongue.

Glad you like the books, and welcome to the forums.