[Sorrit]

Korbas, on 10 December 2009 - 10:36 PM, said:

Not good enough, mate.
I will tell a tad bit of what I can do.

I can switch the targets of night actions.
I pick two people, and whatever targets the one, instead targets the other, and vice versa. The second I saw the role, I knew this would be a perfect trap to catch me a scum, if I was lucky and dared to play high profile. As you will see upon reading back, in my first post, I picked Kalse to vote for. He was convenient, for he was around already.
I then got into a pissing match with Spite, also very convenient to raise my profile and make killers read back on me. I hinted left and right at knowledge, and knew people would read back on me, and conclude I was someone who knows a viper.

Last night, I picked Kalse and Karatallid to exchange as targets.
Karatallid was a convenient target, as he and I had gotten into a shouting match on whether or not the Vipers knew one another - he said they did, I said they didn't. More ways to portray me as someone in the know.

Now, what happens today?
I see a case against Kalse.
Karatallid comes on and reveals he was the target of a kill.

Bingo. It isn't too hard to connect the dots, now is it?

So wait, what's the point of your story about how you wanted people to think you knew a viper? Doesn't seem to have any bearing on the rest of your actions. Interesting story - while I know for a fact that some kind of ability similar to yours (one that turns any abilities a player uses back on himself) is in the game, I'm really not sure I believe you, since I did no targetting of Kalse whatsoever. Besides, even if I had been scum trying to kill Kalse, why would I come and make a case straight away the following morning? This game is full of weird stuff - BPs, guards, heals, reflections...you can't and don't assume that you've hit a major target on Night 2 as scum - it's certainly not worth breaking your cover for, and I don't see how it makes sense for me to have hypothetically done so.

Your justifications seem a bit too convenient - all the pieces in your story fit together a bit too well. A trap for scum, you say? And you just happened to know that Kalse was going to be targetted for a kill. I refuse to believe that you are that prescient. This game never goes just as people have planned like that - never. Got to say, if you were pretending you had special knowledge, you hid it pretty well, because I didn't have a clue that's what you were going for. And let's face it, even if someone did spot your incredibly subtle fake hints, they'd come after you, since you're the one displaying the knowledge. No, I don't like that reveal at all.


EDIT: Xpo with Lio and Korbas again.

This post has been edited by Sorrit: 10 December 2009 - 11:12 PM

[Korbas]

Anyway, I am off to bed. See you all in the morning.

[Korbas]

That was a cross-post with Sorrit, btw - but I have said what I am prepared to say for now.

[Sorrit]

Korbas, on 10 December 2009 - 11:15 PM, said:

That was a cross-post with Sorrit, btw - but I have said what I am prepared to say for now.

What, no response at all? Don't want to have to try and produce any evidence of these hints you claim you made? I'm sorry, but an early joke vote on Kalse does not a devious plan make.

I can't figure out why Kalse was defending me earlier. It doesn't makes sense for a killer...but I guess it could be a symp play.

Still, this reveal stinks - there may well be an action switcher in the game, but there sure as hell isn't one who can read the scum's minds to the extent that he can predict their actions on Night 2. And tying my case on Kalse to his purported action doesn't fit with how you'd expect scum to behave, either. He's seen Shadow's case on me and decided to run with it.

Remove Vote

Vote Korbas

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 25 hours and 38 minutes remain.

16 players still alive: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kalse, Karatallid, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Shadow, Sorrit

9 votes are required to lynch.

1 Vote Liosan (Galayn Lord)
2 Votes Sorrit (Shadow, Korbas)
1 Vote Shadow (Kalse)
1 Vote Barghast (Karatallid)
1 Vote Korbas (Sorrit)

Players who have not voted: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Hood's Path, Liosan, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Rashan

---

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 10 December 2009 - 11:35 PM

[Mockra]

Either I'm slow (probably) or I'm just not seeing the cross purposes of Korbas' post and Sorrit's. If an action switching took place, and Karat says he was targeted for a kill...doesn't that mean Karat instigated the kill but instead had it used on himself? I.E. Karat is the person who tried to kill someone?

[Mockra]

Ok, I see where I have erred, but it still doesn't make sense. How does this changing ability allegedely work?

Kalse chooses to kill someone, and it goes to Karat instead?

[Sorrit]

Mockra, on 10 December 2009 - 11:37 PM, said:

Either I'm slow (probably) or I'm just not seeing the cross purposes of Korbas' post and Sorrit's. If an action switching took place, and Karat says he was targeted for a kill...doesn't that mean Karat instigated the kill but instead had it used on himself? I.E. Karat is the person who tried to kill someone?

Korbas' claim is that he has an action that switches any actions that target one player to target another.

I also happen to know that someone has an action that reflects any action the target makes back on themselves, which seems similar. So it wouldn't be all that out there to be a role like the one Korbas describes in the game. However, the rest of it, I do not believe in the slightest.


EDIT: Xpo with Mockra

This post has been edited by Sorrit: 10 December 2009 - 11:44 PM

[Mockra]

Korbas, on 10 December 2009 - 10:36 PM, said:

Not good enough, mate.
I will tell a tad bit of what I can do.

I can switch the targets of night actions.
I pick two people, and whatever targets the one, instead targets the other, and vice versa. The second I saw the role, I knew this would be a perfect trap to catch me a scum, if I was lucky and dared to play high profile. As you will see upon reading back, in my first post, I picked Kalse to vote for. He was convenient, for he was around already.
I then got into a pissing match with Spite, also very convenient to raise my profile and make killers read back on me. I hinted left and right at knowledge, and knew people would read back on me, and conclude I was someone who knows a viper.

Last night, I picked Kalse and Karatallid to exchange as targets.
Karatallid was a convenient target, as he and I had gotten into a shouting match on whether or not the Vipers knew one another - he said they did, I said they didn't. More ways to portray me as someone in the know.

Now, what happens today?
I see a case against Kalse.
Karatallid comes on and reveals he was the target of a kill.

Bingo. It isn't too hard to connect the dots, now is it?

Ok, sorry, my brain is still waking up.

So the claim is that someone targeted Kalse for a kill, and the kill went at Karat instead? The targets switched? So....Sorrit makes the case on Kalse, which means he's upset that his kill didn't go through (actually hit Karat instead), so Sorrit is the killer?

[Sorrit]

Mockra, on 10 December 2009 - 11:45 PM, said:

Ok, sorry, my brain is still waking up.

So the claim is that someone targeted Kalse for a kill, and the kill went at Karat instead? The targets switched? So....Sorrit makes the case on Kalse, which means he's upset that his kill didn't go through (actually hit Karat instead), so Sorrit is the killer?

I think that's the gist of it. But the way he tried to justify his actions just reeks of someone trying very hard to sound convincing, in my view, which is why I'm running the gauntlet of an OMGUS vote.

[Sorrit]

Right, I need to get some sleep. I'll try and be around as much as I can tomorrow.

[Karatallid]

As to the question asked if I think thats the scum team (Fener, Kalse,Mockra,Barghast) the answer is yes and no. I think of the 4 names mentionedat least 2 are scum. In order of suspicion - Barghast, Mockra, Fener, and Kalse.

Also -If the Korbas reveal is correct - dude, you nearly got me killed!

Finally - Im not sure what it is about the current situation, but I regret that you fuckers wont wipe the shit out of your eyes and see the bigger picture. Feners been impossible to lynch and Mockra is symping the hell out of Bargy. Bargy hasn't even acknowledged that he's a threat, nor have either commented on the fact that Mockra is symping so hard. (At least as far as I recall, but my memory is shit as you can see in my Rashan voted Tellan post).


Anyway, Im off until tomorrow. I'll try to make a better point by point case, however those usually get boring and little or no attention is given to them. In other words I suck at case building!

Night

[Fener]

Alright, I'm back from what turned into a nearly 24-hour party, hence the lack of posts.

I'm catching up now, will have thoughts asap.

[Barghast]

Just on for a few minutes to reread, will hopefully comment later on.

Anyone else having trouble getting the forums to load?

[Path-Shaper]

I've had some issues loading the forums at home, but I'm not entirely sure it's not my browser. Chrome has been going nuts for me lately.

[Kalse]

im back, now catching up.

[Kalse]

before i go on to talking bout Korbas' reveal, im just gonna throw out there that right now I think Shadow is the assassin. this is definitely tainted by a little bit of OMGUS, but even then, as I continuously pushed him and argued against his case for someone other than myself for what no doubt seemed like little good reason, and he kept arguing back at him, and I voted for him ever-so quickly, but he still wouldn't go far enough to vote for me despite all the sympage and abuse I hurled. The only person who voted for me was instead:

Sorrit, on 10 December 2009 - 06:22 PM, said:

Another viper gone .

As Galayn Lord pointed out, the possibility of going after a viper seems to be a monkey on people's backs, which makes it less likely that other cases are going to be pushed all that hard. After 3-4 votes were put on, it became almost inevitable that a lynch was going to happen. However, this train does give us some information to work with.

The fact that the train was built on a player who had said that he wouldn't be back until deadline could be important - it's much easier to build up momentum on a case when your target isn't around to defend himself, after all. For that reason, I'm a little suspicious of Kalse - he was the one who kicked things off with his vote.

Kalse, on 10 December 2009 - 05:10 AM, said:

well after extensive rereading and nodding off a few times, i dont like any of the main candidates so far. fener may be angry and shouty but in this case he was right to be pissed about people putting words in his mouth. words of straw. and i cant see how that makes for a vote-worthy reaction if its justified like that.

The entire Barghast train is based solely on a single post point wherein he came back all righteous and over-reactive after Spite's death-by reveal, which may not be the most open-minded kind of reaction, but it's one post and doesn't paint him as scum solely by that. I need more to go on than that.

The closest thing to a believable case I can see is Tellan, who has alternated from joining into pissing contests to later trying to be the voice of reasoning. Despite the new logical tone of voice, he's still over-exerting himself in trying to push a case on Mockra that amounts to little more than "he made a stupid suggestion". This tunnel-visioned offensive, whilst trying to achieve a more sheep-inducing style of argument, seems to me to be the most likely voice of scum from amongst the current bunch. More likely a supporting scum and not the Bride herself, but it's all I can see at the moment and I'd like to give Tellan more exposure than just that single pseudo-OMGUS vote from Mockra. Therefore,

Vote Tellan

and with that im signing off for the evening as i have plenty of work to do before i hop into bed in a few hours. rest assured i sincerely doubt ill get up in the mid of the night to be on before the deadline. night!

Note that he says that he's unlikely to be around before deadline. This casts the seeds of doubt about time pressure in people's minds. The pretext is that he wants to give Tellan more exposure, but what he essentially did was set him up for a lynch. He knew Tellan wasn't going to be back, so he set the ball rolling in the hope of thinning the ranks of the town.

I'll have a look at some of Kalse's other posts later, but for now I'm going to drop a vote.

Vote Kalse


Note that I also find Barghast suspicious for similar reasons.

...none other than the guy I was defending/symping against Shadow's arguments. it would have been no stretch for him to turn at vote me but he didn't, and thus IGMEOY Shadow cause you seem to be trying really hard to stay low and unsuspicious in the tall grasses of my native Uganda. For now thats all though since im definitely of the opinion we should be focusing on the bride, now with only 3 vipers left alive.

Just sayin'. Now on to the stuff that matters!

[Kalse]

anyways, its a shame korbas logged off because i really wanna know, if he targeted me and Karatallid last night... WHO DID HE PICK NIGHT 1???????!!!!!!

[Olar Ethil]

i"m back, and caught up, and have several questions before I leave to shower/eat/etc

I don't see a problem with Korbas' reveal--it's ultra-complicated, meaning its prolly true, b/c at this stage to fake-reveal like that seems just foolish.

Also, I note that for some reason i'm said to be like sorritt--elaborate, plz? I don't do pissing matches or raise scarecrows about FMs.


more soon.

[Olar Ethil]

Sorrit, on 10 December 2009 - 11:43 PM, said:

<br />

Mockra, on 10 December 2009 - 11:37 PM, said:

<br />Either I'm slow (probably) or I'm just not seeing the cross purposes of Korbas' post and Sorrit's. If an action switching took place, and Karat says he was targeted for a kill...doesn't that mean Karat instigated the kill but instead had it used on himself? I.E. Karat is the person who tried to kill someone? <br /><br /><img src="http://forum.malazanempire.com/public/style_emoticons/darkset/question.gif" /><br />

<br /><br />Korbas' claim is that he has an action that switches any actions that target one player to target another. <br /><br />I also happen to know that someone has an action that reflects any action the target makes back on themselves, which seems similar. So it wouldn't be all that out there to be a role like the one Korbas describes in the game. However, the rest of it, I do not believe in the slightest.<br /><br /><br />EDIT: Xpo with Mockra<br />

<br /><br /><br />

also, am I the only one to read this post and think: "WTF? I NEED DETAILS!!!!"

This post has been edited by Olar Ethil: 11 December 2009 - 03:42 AM