[Mockra]

So you're saying ONE OF THE VIPERS is the assassin Fener? Bill for example is gonna turn on his own people?


Because if every non-viper revealed, the bride would kill all of them for revealing ala O-Ren. That would leave only the bride, and the assassin and the vipers left alive, since the assassin wouldn't dare reveal. The remaining vipers would see who is not of their group, and lynch both the assassin and the bride in subsequent nights.

Of course, this would only work if the vipers can communicate, and the bride will kill any old reveal. That's two big "ifs". But you took a different tack on what I meant. Why would the assassin be exempt from my goofy scenario?

Explain.

But for now, that looks like a slip.

Vote Fener

[Eloth]

Well no kills is a better start to the day than yesterday. Presumably it was good work of a guard / healer or a BP.

Well I don't think what Mockra suggests is particularly realistic or going to work, but looking over the rules I can't see anything to say the Assassin is one of the Vipers as Fener seems to imply.

Vote Fener

For knowing stuff about the Assassin that no one else seems to.

[Fener]

Hold on, you're assuming that the Vipers can communicate? You're assuming the Bride kills all reveals on autopilot?

Can you people not read? You *may* reveal, but the Bride is watching. The Bride ain't gonna kill any roleless inno just because they 'reveal'. Seriously, you're smoking something if you think that would work. Hence, we end up with a whole bunch of exposed Vipers, because they didn't reveal.

AND you're assuming the Vipers can communicate. Seriously, I discounted all of those ridiculous assumptions in about 2 seconds. Given you didn't state those, I think it's a bit of a stretch to expect another player to read your mind.

The fuck is wrong with people this game? *sigh*

[Fener]

HOW THE FUCK DID I EVER IMPLY THE ASSASSIN IS ONE OF THE VIPERS? FUCKING STRAWMANNING FFS.

Based off that logic, I also claimed the Bride is a Viper.

[Galayn Lord]

Well, there was 20 minutes between the reveal and the death scene. That's pretty fast.

I will go under the assumption that the Bride's daykill ability is not passive, so it means the Bride saw it right away and sent the PM. Since there is no mod post between the reveal and the scene, though, we can't be sure about that.

Here are the players that were posting during the reveal: Kalse, Tellan, Sorrit, Korbas.

But, more important IMO, the posters that posted shortly before the reveal, did not post between the reveal and the scene, and posted again some time after: Liosan, Fener.

If was the Bride and saw the reveal, I would act like the people in the second group. It's not the strongest argument, but it's the only kind of lead I can see for now.

Of the two I find Liosan the most likely candidate, I won't quote the whole thing but you can go back and see his posts before, and some time after the events



vote Liosan

[Galayn Lord]

Cross-post with some strange stuff

Why the hell would Mockra assume all these things, eg that the Bride can kill anyone who reveals, even if non-Viper (even if she could, I seriously doubt she would do it and expose herself in the process)?

[Eloth]

I'm didn't say Mockra's plan was realistic or workable, but what you said Fener was

Fener said:

And in the process giving the Assassin a free ride? What do we do about that? Plus revealing thusly will *also* light up the entire Viper faction for the Assassin and Bride to wipe out. AND the Bride can probably hide in the reveals too. Don't think that's gonna work, tbh.

You say the Assassin gets a free ride from RI reveals, since all the RI are killed off by the Bride leaving the Vipers, which apparently will also mean the Assassin remains getting the free ride from my reading of your post.

And then you said the bride can hide in the reveals which I took you to mean were saying the Bride can reveal RI, but the Assassin can't since they are a Viper.

Thats how I read it and so I voted accordingly.

[Mockra]

I didn't say my plan was workable, I was just being a jackass really.

However, Fener, it technically WOULD be testable, i.e., I could (for example, I am not actually revealing) reveal as "Elle". Maybe the bride automatically reacts to an "I'm a viper" reveal and day vigs that person. This would be rather solid information. And if it DIDNT work, then nothing would be lost actually. Obviously, it wouldn't even be POSSIBLE for all non-vipers to reveal at once, so that we would all die or whatever. Who is strawmanning?

But EITHER WAY, as Eloth said, goofy plan or not, big assumptions or not, YOUR REACTION is really dodgy.

[Mockra]

To reiterate, as Eloth explains it in his post, that's exactly how I saw it. Hence the vote.

The retarded nature of my "plan" is irrelevant.

[Fener]

Not what I was saying.

I was saying the Assassin and Bride can reveal the same as the RI's, leaving the Vipers with nothing, us with nothing, and so we don't get anything out of it. I'm operating on the assumption that no-one will die from a fake reveal, here. Otherwise the game would be, so to speak, 'broken'. I obviously misunderstood Mockra's original post, but either way, I'm assuming there won't just be the Assassin, Bride, and Vipers left over after a mass reveal.

So the flaw in your reading of my post comes from the fact that you, like Mockra, think all the RI's would be killed off. I didn't even consider that as plausible when Mockra first posted, and still don't think that would happen.

[Fener]

Cross with Mocrka.

My reaction is dodgy? Scoffing at an inherently flawed plan? I lol'd.

Especially when I get votes for putting forward an ill-explained post, while you don't for suggest a plan that is based on assumptions up the wazoo.....

[Mockra]

Yes Fener, it is farfetched. But the fact remains that O-Ren was day vigged rather quickly after the reveal. Which could mean an automatic action. "Viper Reveal = Auto Death".

However Fener, your scenario based on the misread seems to involve an equally silly idea, which is that somehow everyone would be revealing simultaneously. We'd have results of the first reveal long before any real Viper would even have to speak up.

[Mockra]

Hell, I'm willing to personally test it if you want. If PS is confirmed as being around, I'll fake reveal as a viper. If I'm killed almost immediately, you'll have your answer. If I live, you have another answer.

The Bride is Watching YOU sounds to me like some sort of 24 hour surveillance threat, which sounds more like a game rule than an individual day vig ability.

[Fener]

All right, fair enough. I'd like to see it tested, that's for sure, but I think you'll find that PB would rather make quick-fire changes to the setup than let us win that easily.

But, failing this, what are our other options? We're gonna end up lynching blind like we usually do, and I don't like that.

[Mockra]

You're asking me?

In my opinion, with no lynch, a lost viper and nothing happened at night, we're working with less info than a typical day 1...




One thing I'll point out is PB is encouraging meta, GL was doing just that with his "who was around" vote. I don't like that -time frame- reasoning though, too much room for error.

[Fener]

Well, yes and no. It gives us way too many options, and if we go for the wrong side of people, we waste a good two or three days on that reasoning alone. Plus, if the day kill is auto-activated by PS, or contingent on PS being around (fairly obviously it is), then the reasoning falls over badly. It could even be a provisional day action...as apparently the Bride spent last night doing something *other* than killing - it could even have been a result of using the day kill.
But, it does give us *something* to go on. Which we don't have right now (from my own perspective, of course ).

Argh. Well, if we have no modkill timer, I'd like to look at the really low-posting players after today. I mean, it's crap, but if we end up tomorrow like we are today, then it's probably worth it.

[Fener]

Alright, I'm out for now. Be back in 8 or 9 hours.

[D'riss]

Whew, back.

I didnt get the whole 'the assassin must be a viper thing' that everyone else saw in Fener's post, I'm surprised two people jumped on it in consecutive posts. I doubt that any sort of mass reveal/suicide tactic is going to work, but you're welcome to try reveal to see exactly what happens Mockra.

So the lack of kill on the bride's part was either caused by her day vig, or by the fact that she was given a sword last night (Maybe hold a kill in order to get a more powerful kill or something like that?). What I dont get is why there wasn't any kill by the assassin either. I doubt we will find out why until we hit spoilers, since it could be any number of things, but I suppose it is one plus point so far this game.

[Korbas]

Checking in for the day.I'm a tad bit worried by there being no NK. For the Bride, we have an explanation due to the scene in which she receives the Hanzo sword - but the assassin, I would expect to kill every night, so what happened? I do hope there are some more healers and/or BPed townies other than the Viper squad, or it may be an indication that we'll lose another one tonight.

[Korbas]

xpost with D'riss. Damn you, D'riss, damn you! * shakes fist *But at the least, someone shares my concern.