[Steve]

....er, so how far is a "league" anyway?

[Circle Breaker]

Steve, on 21 November 2009 - 10:08 AM, said:

....er, so how far is a "league" anyway?

See the multiple different definitions on Wiki. "The distance a man or a horse can walk in an hour" sounds the safest bet, as I don't think the actual length is mentioned anywhere in the books and the Malazan world doesn't exactly seem to be highly populated by scientists doing measurements and working up standards.

[Silencer]

Google, on the other hand, uses 1 league = 5.5km, specifically.

Given this, I've calculated the area of Genabackis to be larger than Australia.

>.>

But it seems a safe bet that we're talking somewhere around 3-6km, and that's probably a reasonable enough approximation for anyone's needs.

[King Lear]

A la Wikipedia:

A league is a unit of length (or, rarely, area). It was long common in Europe and Latin America, but it is no longer an official unit in any nation. The league most frequently refers to the distance a person or a horse can walk in an hour.

[Vesper]

Steve, on 21 November 2009 - 10:08 AM, said:

....er, so how far is a "league" anyway?

A "league" is an ambiguous term. It roughly corresponds to the distance someone can walk in an hour (2.5-3.5 miles), though it can also mean the distance a horse can walk in an hour (3.5-4.5 miles), or even a specific number of other units (such as 1,000 paces in Rome). Because peoples' height varied so much since this unit started being used (Napolean's army averaged 5'6" in height, Roman centurions 4'10" in the 2nd century AD), and various other factors would contribute to an army's speed (armour, formation, etc.) that changed with each new invention of warfare, the "league" is basically a term of rough measurement whenever it's used by contemporary fantasy writers.

[Aptorian]

Weird I always thought a league was just one kilometer.

[rhulad]

League

1. An association of states, organizations, or individuals for common action; an alliance.
2. Sports An association of teams or clubs that compete chiefly among themselves.

This post has been edited by rhulad: 09 February 2010 - 04:41 PM

[Hinter]

As almost stated above, the distance an English man can walk in an hour, so 2.5 - 3 miles for your average English man. Of course, this was in the middle ages. These days the average English 10 year old has to be driven 40 metres to the local McDonalds to stock up on Big Macs and Mc Flurrys, little fat c***'s!

[Vesper]

Hinter, on 10 February 2010 - 05:12 AM, said:

As almost stated above, the distance an English man can walk in an hour, so 2.5 - 3 miles for your average English man. Of course, this was in the middle ages. These days the average English 10 year old has to be driven 40 metres to the local McDonalds to stock up on Big Macs and Mc Flurrys, little fat c***'s!

Actually Erikson never specifies which league is meant. Because the Malazan Empire is based so heavily on the Roman Empire I actually be more quick to assume that it would refer to the Roman League, which was 1,000 paces.

We can't even determine based on timeline in the books, because Erikson -- like many fantasy authors -- doesn't seem to have given a great consideration to maintaining accurate timelines. It's the plot that's important, after all.

[Hinter]

Did you mention the timeline? IT'S NOT IMPORTATANT!!!

[Use Of Weapons]

I always go with the league == 3 miles rule as my default, unless that's contradicted by the text.

Of course, as I basically ignore directions and distances in fantasy novels, it really doesn't make a difference to me. I also have a great deal of trouble differentiating between east and west (but not left and right), so get confused easily.

[meili]

Quote

Actually Erikson never specifies which league is meant. Because the Malazan Empire is based so heavily on the Roman Empire I actually be more quick to assume that it would refer to the Roman League, which was 1,000 paces.

This.

Quote

As almost stated above, the distance an English man can walk in an hour

Also wouldn't even "an hour" be a rough approximation? I don't believe they had Swiss timepieces back then.

[Vesper]

meili, on 10 February 2010 - 01:33 PM, said:

Quote

Actually Erikson never specifies which league is meant. Because the Malazan Empire is based so heavily on the Roman Empire I actually be more quick to assume that it would refer to the Roman League, which was 1,000 paces.

This.

Quote

As almost stated above, the distance an English man can walk in an hour

Yes, but where did Hinter get that? It's not from Erikson himself, and it's never said anywhere in the books. So, once again, which league is it?
Also, is that a modern Englishman, or an Englishman from the Middle Ages like the books are set? There's a discrepancy in height of about 10-16 inches (on average) between heights, and heights are so varied in the books (between people like Crokus, who are under 6 feet, and people like Icarium, who tower head and shoulders over even taller humans like Kalam). Whichever way you put it, it's a rough estimate.

meili, on 10 February 2010 - 01:33 PM, said:

Also wouldn't even "an hour" be a rough approximation? I don't believe they had Swiss timepieces back then.

In the middle ages (and, in fact, all the way back to the Egyptians) they were able to track time by the angle the sun would cast shadows at, or how many degrees it traveled in the sky. They had tools to track the zenith of the sun and measure its angle to determine -- by time of year -- how much it would travel in hourly periods. Many sailors went blind because they were often reading the sun's position to glean what time it was. It's not as rough an estimate as you might expect.

[Werthead]

The 'fantasy default league' is 1 league = 3 miles, as used by Tolkien and GRRM. Jordan uses 1 league = 4 miles, but his miles are slightly longer than ours and Jordan minimizes the use of leagues in favour of miles about halfway through the series.

Using the 1 league = 3 miles distance makes Quon Tali about the size of Australia and the Seven Cities subcontinent about the size of the continental United States, which works for me. It also means the Chain of Dogs covered about 1,500 miles, which appears to be in keeping with the long, gruelling nature of the march.

[Deren]

Ah, how I love these measurements. I would say it's somewhere down the horizon. But the context is really all the particulars that count. Is it a short horizon or a vast horizon? If it's the latter, there would be a note about the visibility of that coordinate. It all comes down to "not so far", "far", "very far"... But maybe I'm just a terribly sloppy reader.

This post has been edited by Deren: 19 February 2010 - 09:33 AM

[BlackMoranthofDoom]

Werthead, on 11 February 2010 - 04:00 PM, said:

The 'fantasy default league' is 1 league = 3 miles, as used by Tolkien and GRRM. Jordan uses 1 league = 4 miles, but his miles are slightly longer than ours and Jordan minimizes the use of leagues in favour of miles about halfway through the series.

Using the 1 league = 3 miles distance makes Quon Tali about the size of Australia and the Seven Cities subcontinent about the size of the continental United States, which works for me. It also means the Chain of Dogs covered about 1,500 miles, which appears to be in keeping with the long, gruelling nature of the march.

Isn't the continental US about the same size as Australia (excluding Alaska if that;s what you meant)? I don't think the maps provided in the books show us the full continent or Seven Cities or Genabackis, because the maps seem to stretch beyond the borders of the page.

[grey_tinman]

Along these lines, how long is a bell? One hour is what I've assumed. Anyone have any reason to think otherwise?

[ansible]

grey_tinman, on 17 August 2010 - 07:37 PM, said:

Along these lines, how long is a bell? One hour is what I've assumed. Anyone have any reason to think otherwise?

That is the general consensus, yes.

[Ribald]

grey_tinman, on 17 August 2010 - 07:37 PM, said:

Along these lines, how long is a bell? One hour is what I've assumed. Anyone have any reason to think otherwise?

A bell is about how long it takes a man to walk a league.