[Gothos]

Size doesn't neccesarily mean greater gravity. It depends on mass, not size. Wu could well be larger, but less dense and composed of slightly different mineral mix.

[Werthead]

"On a less-critical note, I'm really impressed with how well put-together and professional-looking those maps are. I mean, there aren't really any geographical features depicted (beyond the Aurgatt Range in the first one), but you have realistic coast-lines (particularly on the coast of the Calash sea) and shapes. What kind of program did you use to put these together?"

MS Paint

Another poster from the old board, Jonathan, created the first first draft of the map by assembling the published maps of the book and putting them at the same scale and overlaying them on a big blue rectangle that fitted the size of Earth. I then simply 'painted over' the existing coastlines from the Gower maps in the books, so that was a bit of a cheat.

There are some great, proper and much higher-quality Photoshopped versions of the map by other posters in the gallery section.

[D'rek]

Just started a re-read of RotCG and thought I'd take another shot at this while it's fresh. First of all, the CG leave from the western shore of Bael and go north-west to Stratem. They encounter Stormriders, but it is said that that event was setup by Shimmer/Greymane/someone so that doesn't have to be in the strait between Quon and Korel. Also, Bael is directly connected to Assail along its northside. When Iron Bars gets pulled onto the ship he takes over, he immediately orders them to sail south-west "around the Cape to Stratem". Now the Cape could be anything, even a Cape on Jacuruku, so who knows, but if we don't allow him to have gone too far from Jacuruku then it should be north-east of Stratem. Traveller and Ereko are on the Western side of Korel, which makes the most sense as far as the Edur attacking on that side. Not at the part where they leave with Kyle yet, but already I'm thinking this'll be problematic as I can't see why they'd want to sail all the way around Stratem...

Also, Mallick sees in Lady Batevari's home a Letheri "board-painting"

So so far I'm thinking:
 post-4844-126454838472.jpg (118.65K)
Number of downloads: 41
Pink - Iron Bars
Light Blue - Oru's ship (2 possible routes, doesn't really matter you could justify him being anywhere)
Brown - the CrG from Bael to Stratem
Orange - the Suncurl's voyage through Laughter's End
Light Green - the Bonehunters from 7C to Lether (yes they do backtrack like that, as they catch up to the Edur fleet and capture one of its stray ships and there's no reason the Edur would go all the way around from west 7C)

Pasty wide yellow - major trade routes

[Sinisdar Toste]

that looks pretty nice. could the cape be mare? maybe its the cape of mare where these "mare" we keep hearing about live. they're right by korel apparently and now you go around the cape to get to stratem, which is south of korel. makes sense on that map i think as well as with your iron bars route. they're right in the area to get picked up by a mare escort.

edit: should assail really be that small? or maybe its too squat, malaclypse mentioned upthread that assail was a long thinner continent

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 04 March 2010 - 09:40 PM

[D'rek]

Sinisdar Toste, on 04 March 2010 - 09:37 PM, said:

that looks pretty nice. could the cape be mare? maybe its the cape of mare where these "mare" we keep hearing about live. they're right by korel apparently and now you go around the cape to get to stratem, which is south of korel. makes sense on that map i think as well as with your iron bars route. they're right in the area to get picked up by a mare escort.

edit: should assail really be that small? or maybe its too squat, malaclypse mentioned upthread that assail was a long thinner continent

I think there's mention of Mare being on the Theftian Peninsula, but that might've been a misleading quote. Theft, Lamentable Moll, Mare, that city Sater is from, the other city that the Chanters are from... at this point it seems like all of Korel north of Stratem is on the bloody Theftian peninsula.

I shrunk Assail merely because I didn't want it to get in the way, but as it turned out it doesn't really need to be shrunk that much. In fact it probably should stretch farther north or else there's not much reason Mappo's TTG carriage would end up in the Wrecker's coast on its way from Darujhistan to Lether...

[Crow Clan Baby]

Nice, but going by the scheme >here< there seems to be a tendency to push Lether/etc too far west. It seems to need to come somewhere between half and quarter it's width to the east. There alno needs to be something of a southward extension at the west of Seven Cities. Maybe a layout something like this (roughly drawing outlines on top of the positions in the scheme, and adding some wraparound so we can see the positioning relative to the oceans better):

This post has been edited by Crow Clan Baby: 08 March 2010 - 07:53 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

i can think of one beef with that layout right off the bat. in MoI lady envy remarks that the pannion domin was apparently once conquered by the genostellans. she then goes on to say that the genostel archipelago is halfway around the world from where there are. so i think genostel should be pulled in closer to the 7 cities continent and the ocean space between them widened considerably, with lether sitting somewhere nearer the middle of it in the south. i get the feeling that the ocean between genebackis and perish is the largest on the planet

[D'rek]

Have read more of RotCG. The Cawnese chief factor makes another reference to an obscure land called 'Lethery' (and he notes he is a bit wrong with the name. So I suspect ICE and SE are indeed ret-conning Lether into more-or-less common knowledge as Wert said.

Kyle, Traveller, Ereko and the Assail cousins definitely make sail from the West coast of Stratem. As they head out they go north but that doesn't necessarily mean they continue that way. Later they are in a cold area and Ereko talks vaguely about a Jaghut ritual in the area and obviously we think of Stormriders and assume they are at the north end of Korel, but there's no actual references to such - they could in fact be going around the south end of Stratem. Later after that they are going along the Jacuruku coast, and for a bit they are definitely going north along it. Then they go into the beach and meet Jhest. While there, Kyle watches the sun rise ***over the jungle to the EAST***. Since they're on the coast they must be on Jacuruku's west side.

Now a key thing that I'd forgotten until I re-read it is that Traveller and co. are purposely looking for the Dolmans on Jacuruku. Kyle overhears Skinner name them and asks Traveller to take them there. They don't randomly end up there on the way to QT. So they could have gone either south under Stratem or north around Theft, either way it works but this is even more evidence that Jacuruku is EAST of Korel (and if Kyle went north around Theft it has to be a bit north of Korel, too).

Combined with Shurq, Iron Bars (repeatedly) and more, I definitely think that all references point to Jacuruku being east of Korel (and LoLE is sooo wrong, btw). Thus I think the general placement in the edit of the map I did above is about right.

Now if only Mal or Hetan or someone could show this thread to SE so he doesn't go and ret-con Jacuruku being on the West side!!!



Lastly, here's a quick map of the two ways Kyle's journey (purple) could play out: (red is CG)
 blah.jpg (37.29K)
Number of downloads: 12

This post has been edited by D'rek: 11 March 2010 - 04:06 AM

[Blend]

This is from SE's Life as a Human blog. I think it's a pretty neat little section of map. Not sure if it was in one of the books, but if not, there ya go!

[D'rek]

Yeah, I think that was in one of the paperbacks... HoC maybe?

[Werthead]

Yeah, that's the map of Quon Tali from HoC. A more detailed version of it (missing out on Falar) appears in TBH and RotCG.

Question: obviously SE has created a new world map and obviously Hetan & Mal can't publish it here, presumably for copyright purposes. This to me suggests that the new world map is about to appear 'officially' in some capacity, and the logical location for it is in THE CRIPPLED GOD. Any chance we can get confirmation of that? I remember SE saying the world map was going to be in HoC but they decided not to do it for the lack of detail (and I'm guessing possible spoiler reasons, since Lether was unknown at that point).

[M'ichael]

Hmmm, should not Lether be a little bit more to the north, because of the massive ice fields where Fear, Trull and their brothers went to get the sword of the CG? (despite the melting) And there are also the tundra like wastelands. I think Lether is on the same height as Genabackis, maybe even a little bit higher.

This post has been edited by M'ichael: 03 April 2010 - 09:03 PM

[Gothos]

Note that in Wu, ice doesn't really mean it's near the poles - ice fields are by and large remnants of Jaghut rituals.

[Sinisdar Toste]

and the lether icefields are a result of the most massive unveiling of omtose phellack on the planet ever. i know it seems like a complete screw up to have ice fields almost on the equator, but its all good, they're magic

[Werthead]

Not to mention that when the magic is removed in MT/RG, the icefields almost immediately melt (spurring the Shake's evacuation from their islands), a likely result of their unseasonal location.

[Crow Clan Baby]

Sinisdar Toste, on 09 March 2010 - 06:34 AM, said:

i can think of one beef with that layout right off the bat. in MoI lady envy remarks that the pannion domin was apparently once conquered by the genostellans. she then goes on to say that the genostel archipelago is halfway around the world from where there are. so i think genostel should be pulled in closer to the 7 cities continent and the ocean space between them widened considerably, with lether sitting somewhere nearer the middle of it in the south. i get the feeling that the ocean between genebackis and perish is the largest on the planet

It's possible that Lady Envy may not have meant that quite literally (in the same way as someone might say something is "miles away" when they just mean a distance that's too far for them right now), which unfortunately would mean that anything said by any character may have to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Crow Clan Baby, on 08 April 2010 - 10:06 PM, said:

Sinisdar Toste, on 09 March 2010 - 06:34 AM, said:

i can think of one beef with that layout right off the bat. in MoI lady envy remarks that the pannion domin was apparently once conquered by the genostellans. she then goes on to say that the genostel archipelago is halfway around the world from where there are. so i think genostel should be pulled in closer to the 7 cities continent and the ocean space between them widened considerably, with lether sitting somewhere nearer the middle of it in the south. i get the feeling that the ocean between genebackis and perish is the largest on the planet

It's possible that Lady Envy may not have meant that quite literally (in the same way as someone might say something is "miles away" when they just mean a distance that's too far for them right now), which unfortunately would mean that anything said by any character may have to be taken with a grain of salt.

true enough, true enough. but halfway around the world is still a far sight from just across the nearest ocean. of course lady envy could just be terrible at geography...

[fluteboy]

What really mystifies me in all of this is that, you would think with all the years SE and ICE have spent playing and writing in this world, the geography of the place would be pretty set by now. I know when I am creating a fantasy world, the geography is very important to me. Sometimes I will start out creating a rough map before I am even sure what the entire story or native peoples will be. Sometimes the geography of my map will even influence the story I create, not the other way around. For role-playing campaigns, I would assume the geography of Wu would need to be pretty stable for years between the two creators. And more than anything else, having created the world and designed it, you would think SE has a map, if not physical then at least in his head, that he refers to constantly when writing something like that line in the Lees of Laughter's End. In other words, I would think that descriptions of places and their relation to one another are inspired by the world map and that world map existed long before the words were written. If I were writing a novel like this, I would (and have created) very large wall maps that could constantly be referred to. Mapping out the story and mapping out the world have to be completely intertwined, at least for me. Finally, didn't SE himself say that Werthead's map was very close? A few continents needed to be moved slightly and shapes changed, but all in all he said it was an excellent piece of detective work. You would think he would say something like, "Oh, and Korel and Jacaruku need to be reversed and Lether is directly under the Seven Cities, etc continent..." if it were the case.
I suppose we must wait until the world map is revealed to be sure. Werthead's maps made so much sense, though. Aaaauuuggghhh!

[Sciz]

I just started reading the lees of laughter's end, and right in the beginning there's a sentence that clashes with werthead's map in the beginning of this topic.

West of Theft, the Tithe Strait opens out into the Wastes. A vast stretch of ocean through which naught but the adventurous and the foolhardy dared brave the treacherous, dubious sea-lanes as far as the red road of Laughter's End, and from there, onward to the islands of the Seguleh and the southern coast of Genabackis, where the lands of Lamatath offered sordid refuge for pirates, wastrels, the rare trader and the ubiquitous pilgrim ships of the Fallen God.


This clearly (at least to me) states that Genabackis should lie northwest of Theft, as i'd see the sea-lane would go west, then north to the Seguleh islands and then Genabackis. But the maps we have here all put Theft way southwest of Genabackis. I'm not sure how that's possible if the ocean between Genabackis and Theft lies west of Theft.

This post has been edited by Sciz: 25 May 2010 - 05:36 PM

[Werthead]

Sciz, on 23 May 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

I just started reading the lees of laughter's end, and right in the beginning there's a sentence that clashes with werthead's map in the beginning of this topic.

West of Theft, the Tithe Strait opens out into the Wastes. A vast stretch of ocean through which naught but the adventurous and the foolhardy dared brave the treacherous, dubious sea-lanes as far as the red road of Laughter’s End, and from there, onward to the islands of the Seguleh and the southern coast of Genabackis, where the lands of Lamatath offered sordid refuge for pirates, wastrels, the rare trader and the ubiquitous pilgrim ships of the Fallen God.


This clearly (at least to me) states that Genabackis should lie northwest of Theft, as i'd see the sea-lane would go west, then north to the Seguleh islands and then Genabackis. But the maps we have here all put Theft way southeast of Genabackis. I'm not sure how that's possible if the ocean between Genabackis and Theft lies west of Theft.

Theft lies off the coast of Korelri immediately south-east of Quon Tali, close to the straits between Malaz Island and Korelri. So that locks Theft into that location. Due north obviously is Quon Tali and then Seven Cities, so Genabackis from Theft lies north and east. That's the only thing that makes sense, unless people travel west from Theft, avoiding Seven Cities and Lether and then travel north-west to Genabackis. It doesn't make much sense (a bit like travelling from Australia to Alaska by going west through the Indian and Atlantic Oceans into the South Pacific and then up the west coast of the Americas rather than just straight north-east) to do it that way but arguably it would work.

The far more logical conclusion is that Erikson misremembered or put 'west' instad of 'east'.