[MTS]

Spoiler

As of yet, Tavore has not found out about her killing Felisin, and I don't think she will. Pearl and Lostara are the only ones who know, and decided to keep it from her. She does find out she is dead though, I think. Nor will Paran find out, I don't reckon.

I think the the anti-climax at the end of House of Chains was a literary device on SE's part. The tragedy that Tavore slew the very person she was attempting to save, and he was demonstrating that events do not always live up to their expectations. Many people don't think that made for a good conclusion, but ah well. As to you not liking her death and the circumstances of it, well that's another literary device on his part. People die useless deaths, and are forgotten. It's a part of life, and a part of this series actually. It's very maudlin, but that's part of what makes this series so great. We don't always get a happy or even a bittersweet resolution. Life moves on, regardless of our feelings about it.

Spoiler

As to the Tavore situation, I won't spoil anything, but she is developed much more in the 6th, 7th and 9th books. We begin to get a glimpse as to why she is the way she is, and the motivations for her actions. The lack of emotion is quite deliberate, I assure you, and she is meant to be unfathomable. Even the gods have no idea what she is doing.

This post has been edited by Hetan: 18 October 2009 - 06:19 PM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

It was inevitable that Felisin died, I reckon. What place would she have after the rebellion's end? Maybe the CG would recruit her, but I don't think so.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

I don't think there really are pointless any storylines, or red herrings as you referred to it as, in this series. The biggest attraction to me for the series is the depth of this world that SE and ICE created. Yea, some of the things that happen don't seem to directly affect the main storylines of a given book, but for the most part they are setting something up for a book or two down the road. And sometimes they are just interesting sidestories in the Malazan world. But the fact that there are so many characters, and the world itself is so well developed, those sidestories are interesting to me. Sometimes on a first read it bothers me that I was expecting a convergence that never happened, but after that initial disappointment I can usually enjoy them.

[Bliss]

i got the feeling that tavore recognized felisin in the the end and therefore knows that she killed felisin. it would explain the whole, she never asks about felisin ever again throughout the whole series question.

[MTS]

That's explained by her not saying or asking about anything, ever...

[MTS]

Kityhawk, on 18 October 2009 - 10:33 AM, said:

Bliss, on 18 October 2009 - 08:36 AM, said:

i got the feeling that tavore recognized felisin in the the end and therefore knows that she killed felisin. it would explain the whole, she never asks about felisin ever again throughout the whole series question.

Thanks for you posts.

I've heard people say that before but I can't see the evidence for that myself apart from that she doesn't say anything. And if that is true then Lostra and Pearl's big secret just becomes completely redundant doesn't it? WHAT!? I would have thought the only reason for having that was that it was going to get revealed at some later date?

I was afraid of this.

People have said about the anti-climax ending being one of SE's literary devices. Yes ok I can kind of see that but it doesn't make the ending any less unsatisfactory to me. I found the same problem when reading Joe Abercrombie's First Law. It's just my opinion but anit-climax endings really do not work. It's like being amazed by some dazling magic trick only to find out at the end that the guy just did it with CGI.

Do people think Tavore will die at the end. If the whole issue with her and Felisin is just forgotten about can I at least be served a portion of petty vengence?? I know I'm not like to get it and I usually hate things in books when character's meet their "just deserts". But she my favourite character, I know it's stupid but I kinda take that personally.

Well, it's a testament to SE that he got you to care so much. However, the point of a secret is not to reveal it later, but to never tell someone. And the fact that she either doesn't know or doesn't ask doesn't make the secret redundant. It just reinforces the tragedy that she will never find out, and keeps her from breaking down emotionally. She does have to lead an army, after all, and she's already fragile enough emotionally, no need to add fuel to the fire.

[Illuyankas]

Consider that while Tavore may or may not know that she killed Felisin (I'm voting that she didn't), Ganoes certainly doesn't know.

[Eispeis]

Kityhawk, on 18 October 2009 - 12:34 PM, said:

[I think Steven Erikson is a great wirter but right now I feel as if he's ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I'm not sure right now if I'm willing to let him do it all over again.

If you've read up until HoC you've experienced several emotional deaths allready, but I'm afraid there's more in store for you.

Off the top of my head I remember 5 additional deaths as far as I've read (halfway through TtH) which left me rattled or emotionally drained.

I love the series for it, and as has been pointed out several times before on these forums. The series is called The Malazan Book of the Fallen.

The most shocked I've ever been in the series is at the end of The Bone Hunters. It was not about a death, but without going into detail I was actually furious with Erikson. I still rate this as a good thing as it keeps me emotionally involved in the series.

I understand that different people's emotions are moved by different fates, but Felisin ranks at the bottom of major deaths as far as I'm concerned. It may be because it was spoiled for me before I actually reached the place, but I seriously disliked Felisin and her entire storyline.

Wiskeyjack, Itkovian and Coltaine were far worse, and there are more to come I'm afraid

This post has been edited by Eispeis: 18 October 2009 - 04:46 PM

[D'rek]

Tavore may have simply accepted Pearl's report that Felisin died a merciful death after escaping the mines, but the series is not over yet. No one on these forums can say with certainty what will happen, so maybe Tavore will learn the truth. Pearl and Lostara know the exact truth - that Sha'ik was Felisin - but there are other characters such as Leoman, Karsa, Felisin Younger, Scillara, Korbolo Dom, L'oric, Corabb and more who know enough to piece together the mystery themselves. Additionally Heboric and {{spoiler see below}} know exactly the truth, like Pearl and Lostara.

Spoiler

Grub

Don't think that this issue will just be forogtten. The Malazan origin of the re-birthed Sha'ik is an issue in tBH for the remaining forces of the Apocalypse and its commanders. There's an event with Paran possibly figuring out the truth of things (also in tBH), and keeping secrets from Tavore will be a major part of the development of Lostara Yil later on.

[Ben Adephon Delat]

Personally I hated Felisin and I'm glad that Tavore is either ignorant of or is hiding her knowledge of the fact she killed her sister. Felisin treated everybody who tried to help her like crap and her desire for vengeance was pure lunacy. Sure she was under Shai'k's influence for a while there but even after discovering that her sister was actually looking out for her and her family she still wanted to hurt her. The fact that most of her suffering was self inflicted just makes it worse.

[Baudinsballs]

I can understand why people would be maybe a bit disapointed in the outcome of the Tavore, Felisin plotline. From book two Deadhouse Gates it was built up as though there could be a major confrontation between the two and this was continued in House of Chains. However, i found the climax suitable. A death with a whimper and not a bang. And as Mr. Erikson has said before, he likes to defy expectations

[Ben Adephon Delat]

With regards it being self inflicted here's the way I see it Baudin was willing to complete his mission and extract her from the mines but Felisin's actions made it seem to him as if she was not worth saving. Was it Baudin's place to make such a judgement? I say no but it seemed to me that Felisin had created a prison in her mind to complement the prison she was in and what use would there be saving her when she was like that. Are the wounds truly self inflicted no not particularly she did what she thought she had to to survive but the fact that she had an alternative despite her seeming ignorance of it makes her actions less of a necessity and thus more reprehensible to me at least.

[Bliss]

it was self inflicted in that so many people reached out to her to try and help her and she constantly turned them down because she either didnt trust them or thought they were idiots, i mean everyone from baudin, heboric, kulp, stormy and gesler, leoman and toblakai and even l'oric to an extent. they all tried to help her in some way or at least tried to make her situation better for her and she refused to accept help from any of them. that was how it was self-inflicted.

[amphibian]

Ben Adephon Delat, on 19 October 2009 - 09:31 PM, said:

but it seemed to me that Felisin had created a prison in her mind to complement the prison she was in and what use would there be saving her when she was like that. Are the wounds truly self inflicted no not particularly she did what she thought she had to to survive but the fact that she had an alternative despite her seeming ignorance of it makes her actions less of a necessity and thus more reprehensible to me at least.

Bliss, on 19 October 2009 - 09:45 PM, said:

it was self inflicted in that so many people reached out to her to try and help her and she constantly turned them down because she either didnt trust them or thought they were idiots, i mean everyone from baudin, heboric, kulp, stormy and gesler, leoman and toblakai and even l'oric to an extent. they all tried to help her in some way or at least tried to make her situation better for her and she refused to accept help from any of them. that was how it was self-inflicted.

The reactions of people to traumatic events is varied. I'd say that the near total destruction of your family and life, going to prison, seeing people savagely murdered before your eyes, surviving a riot, crossing a sea on a prison ship, being the whore of several dozen people, being forcibly used, sliding into drugs both as a coping mechanism and because the pimps are encouraging addiction and docility, barely surviving a walk through a hellish desert, being driven by an obsessed goddess with little regard for mortal affairs, landing in a camp full of murderers and worse and having basically no time to relax or a role model/advisor you can trust would mess anyone up - much less a 16 year old girl.

The "prison of the mind" stuff pops up a lot in battered women and children, as well as some veterans of war. Furthermore, all the help she got was sporadic, not always freely given and everyone was busy with their own agendas.

I'm not saying this exculpates Felisin from any blame, but that situation is very, very tough and I don't blame her for anything other than being a confused, scared young woman who stubbornly avoided consultation with the wiser people around her.