[ritchiediaz]

i mentioned this in Abyss's thread, but it's been annoying me, so I''l see if anyone else has any better theories...

When Silchas is talking with Udinaas, he absentmindedly says 'She will be Queen,' them carries on without elaborating.

The obvious candidate for this is Sandalath (Queen of Dark), especially after a re-read it's the only thing I can think of that makes sense - the Hust sword being the obvious connection between them.

Is it possible that Sandalath and Silchas wre childhood 'sweethearts' or similar? There is something there with the whole hostage thing that really makes me wonder.

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

Someone has to be Korlat and Orfantal's daddy... Sandy isn't a draconic soletaken.

Or did they go be gruesome with Tiam? *braindead*

[Urizen]

ritchiediaz, on 15 September 2009 - 08:59 PM, said:

i mentioned this in Abyss's thread, but it's been annoying me, so I''l see if anyone else has any better theories...

When Silchas is talking with Udinaas, he absentmindedly says 'She will be Queen,' them carries on without elaborating.

The obvious candidate for this is Sandalath (Queen of Dark), especially after a re-read it's the only thing I can think of that makes sense - the Hust sword being the obvious connection between them.

Is it possible that Sandalath and Silchas wre childhood 'sweethearts' or similar? There is something there with the whole hostage thing that really makes me wonder.

When I read it the first time I actually thought Silchas was refering to Seren Pedac becoming Queen of Shadow.

Sandalath is the obvious candidate except that Sandalath died and Silchas has no way really of knowing about her resurrection. Also, the woman with Blind Gallan at the end is not nessecary Sandalath.

Since Silchas admits to Udinaas that he has not had any children they can't have been very close for an extended amount of time.
Given Sandalath rantings on Blind Gallan I would not be suprised if he is Orfantal's and/or Korlat's daddy. Her talks could be interpreted as a solitary mother's venom against the absent dad that left them. Korlat (and presumably Orfantal) became Soletaken Eleint the same way Rake became Soletaken Eleint(drinking Tiam's blood) and at the same time. If Sandalath's thoughts in MT refers to Korlat, that is.

I wonder how the Shake and more importantly Yan Tovis/Yedan Derryg will react to Sandalath? Will Yan Tovis take Sandalath's presence as a way of getting out of ruling?
Also, How will MD behave? will she be involved, favoring certain persons that for some reason pleases her/suits her plans or will she be a more withdrawn precence that lets her "children" do as they wish?

[Abyss]

Hellian, on 15 September 2009 - 10:07 PM, said:

Someone has to be Korlat and Orfantal's daddy... Sandy isn't a draconic soletaken.

Or did they go be gruesome with Tiam? *braindead*

My recollection is spotty but i vaguely recall that as she was being returned to life in MT Sandy recalls her daughter who drank from Tiam after Rake.

Suggestion being that whenever Rake sheboinged or killed Tiam, he brought at least four friends along, including Korlat and Orfantal, who became the four black dragons we see in GotM.

There is some debate whether there may be more of them, since Orfantal (in his then female guise) chases Rallick and Vorcan while the dragons are still fighting Raest, but this is probably a GotMism.

Similarly, Coll's drunken 'five black dragons' comment was a) drunk, may or may not have included Rake and c) drunk.

DoD is the first time we've seen a suggestion that Sandy is of royal blood. I was pleasantly surprised to see SE work her into the Andii back story that deeply. The Letherii con-women/captains recognizing her from the painting was priceless.


- Abyss, wishes he was a) drunk...

[Hetan]

My thought was the same as Urizen's - it is Seren Pedac Ruin was thinking about.

When Sandalath and Withal arrive in Kharkanas, Withal hears the QoDark talk to him when he refers to Sandalath as having suffered enough, and being as he is carrying her at the time, I just don't think it's her.

[Abyss]

Isn't there a moment in MT when someone predicts two queens of the Empty Hold?

Sandy, Twilight and Seren are all linked to Shadow in fairly important ways. I'd actually guess Seren to be the least likely of the three to take on a formal position in the House, but then, as we saw with Trull and their child, the House has its own plans. Perhaps Seren will sezie power specifically to protect her child... she certainly seemed ready to smack Shadowthrone around prior to Fid's reading.


- Abyss, enjoyed that scene.

[Sinisdar Toste]

could be that you're remembering the reading of the tiles FW does when she pluralizes all the roles in the empty hold.

[Urizen]

Abyss, on 16 September 2009 - 01:19 PM, said:

Isn't there a moment in MT when someone predicts two queens of the Empty Hold?


- Abyss, enjoyed that scene.

The Empty Hold don't have a King or a Queen
There is the episode in MT when some trapped Andi spirits proclaims that there are two Mistresess of the Empty Hold at that time, with Seren Pedac as one of them.

[ritchiediaz]

I like the idea of Seren - Silchas travelled with her for some time after all.

It's quite interesting throught DoD that there are a number of references to 'She' that can be open to interpretation due to the number of possible females that could fit in the context - Ruthan Gudd for example

Quote

'She answers, as she has never answered before'

Tavore?

And the odd thing that struck me regarding the prominent roles played by ladies, that I really expected some involvement from the Queen of Dreams, especially give the title of the book.

But then Erikson always manages to confound expectations!

[Tapper]

ritchiediaz, on 16 September 2009 - 05:59 PM, said:

I like the idea of Seren - Silchas travelled with her for some time after all.

It's quite interesting throught DoD that there are a number of references to 'She' that can be open to interpretation due to the number of possible females that could fit in the context - Ruthan Gudd for example

Quote

'She answers, as she has never answered before'

Tavore?

And the odd thing that struck me regarding the prominent roles played by ladies, that I really expected some involvement from the Queen of Dreams, especially give the title of the book.

But then Erikson always manages to confound expectations!

Aye, if I'm not mistaken, there's still a thread to be tied to Leoman, Dunsparrow and the QoD... SE left them open for further development, iirc.

[ritchiediaz]

Tapper, on 16 September 2009 - 06:42 PM, said:

Aye, if I'm not mistaken, there's still a thread to be tied to Leoman, Dunsparrow and the QoD... SE left them open for further development, iirc.

Exactly - I'm guessing there will be some kind of Dunsparrow / Iskar Jarak and Leoman / Corabb reunions to come. What exactly is T'riss got in mind for them?

[Hetan]

Abyss, on 16 September 2009 - 01:19 PM, said:

Isn't there a moment in MT when someone predicts two queens of the Empty Hold?

Sandy, Twilight and Seren are all linked to Shadow in fairly important ways. I'd actually guess Seren to be the least likely of the three to take on a formal position in the House, but then, as we saw with Trull and their child, the House has its own plans. Perhaps Seren will sezie power specifically to protect her child... she certainly seemed ready to smack Shadowthrone around prior to Fid's reading.


- Abyss, enjoyed that scene.

Well I really don't think that Sandalath is going to be Queen of Shadow at all. That leaves Twilight - who is already Queen of the Shake, and Seren, who carries the Knight of Shadow. Of the two - Twilight would seem to be the most obvious choice, however I feel that there is something else in store for her. I feel that the protection of Mael etc may have been a most pertinent point in that whole section of the book.

[Urizen]

On the topic of the Shake, who will be Rise? It's comes up from time to time in both RG and DoD on how Yan Tovis(Twilight) needs to have a husband to act as Rise (a king or consort I suppose).

[Sinisdar Toste]

i don't think there will be a rise... Yeddan and Yan make much of them being each others opposites, that they need each other for balance. i can't see where a rise would be welcome. yan tovis doesn't seem the marrying type, for love or politics. yeddan would probably end up killing the guy for some reason anyway

[Urizen]

Sinisdar Toste, on 18 September 2009 - 01:37 AM, said:

i don't think there will be a rise... Yeddan and Yan make much of them being each others opposites, that they need each other for balance. i can't see where a rise would be welcome. yan tovis doesn't seem the marrying type, for love or politics. yeddan would probably end up killing the guy for some reason anyway

I feel this way too but the Rise issue keeps coming up in regular intervals making me think there might be something to it.
Also, Both Twilight and the Watch got some sort genetic memories about their past, specific to their title/position. Shouldn't the Rise have some of those too?

[HoosierDaddy]

In my opinion:

Neither Twilight nor the Watch intend to stay in Kharkanas. In fact, while Twilight and the Watch have Andii in them, they are more naturally Shadow. It is Sandalath Drukorlat, mother of two Soletaken-Andii Eleint, that has followed the Shake onto Gallan's Road. She was a political prisoner, thus meaning she was important enough politically to be placed in a position where, despite her sex, she would be held sacrosanct. She was at Kharkanas to witness the final brother leave, and thus secure the Shake a way to leave.

Sandalath is to be Queen. She set out to help Yan Tovis, and will in the end be, instead of used as stated by MD up to that point, Queen.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 18 September 2009 - 07:32 AM

[ritchiediaz]

HoosierDaddy, on 18 September 2009 - 07:30 AM, said:

In my opinion:

Sandalath is to be Queen. She set out to help Yan Tovis, and will in the end be, instead of used as stated by MD up to that point, Queen.

I suppose that is the other thing with what Silchas was saying - is he meaning Queen of Dark (he is obviously Tiste Andii and concerned with all things Dark), or is he meaning Queen of Shadow? (which is where Seren comes in).

Of course it could even conceivably be another Queen, neither Shadow nor Dark - SE is good at that kind of misdrirection after all!

This post has been edited by ritchiediaz: 18 September 2009 - 09:40 AM

[Silencer]

ritchiediaz, on 16 September 2009 - 05:59 PM, said:

I like the idea of Seren - Silchas travelled with her for some time after all.

It's quite interesting throught DoD that there are a number of references to 'She' that can be open to interpretation due to the number of possible females that could fit in the context - Ruthan Gudd for example

Quote

'She answers, as she has never answered before'

Tavore?

Erm...I do believe he was talking about his sword at the time. Rather like the idea of Greymane's sword suddenly changing appearance, Gudd's sword suddenly goes from normal-looking to a sword of ice, breaking the magic that had hid it's nature.

Just sayin'