[Urizen]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Aug 27 2009, 09:30 AM, said:

Unless Old Hunch was chilling around that battle between the Barghast and Akrynnai where everything froze, then no.

Well, Ublala was pretty close. Hunch could have been caught by the fringes of the power that whipped around. I seem to remember reading somewhere that souls without a body are more vulnerable that souls with a body.
Also, Draconus re-entry was hardly a localised event, It was felt by everybody. the Bonehunters weren't chilling around that battle either yet every magic sensitve person collapsed. Old Hunch was probably closer to "ground zero" if you will and got torn up.

[MTS]

I didn't think he was that close. Sure, he had to go through Akryn territory to get to the Wastelands (is he even there yet?), but he started out from Letheras a fair while after the Malazans left, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, just because everyone knew that he was back doesn't mean the effects were widespread. Power is noticeable, even from long range. Remember when Mael saves Tehol and throws Theradas into the portal? That sure wasn't widespread, but "heads had turned. Immortal hearts had quickened."

As to everyone collapsing, is it explicit that it was because of Draconus' entry? I assumed it was the fucked up nature of the Wastelands that messed everyone up.

[MTS]

Just thought of something new pertaining to my theory while in the Deck reading thread, and have added it to the first one.

EDIT: I also noticed people are skeptical about my Draconus dialogue line with Ublala. Things can have two meanings, you know. The hesitation on Draconus' part could be because of Dragnipur, and Ublala's comment could pertain to Kaminsod.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 27 August 2009 - 11:04 AM

[ISTN4249]

don't discount the fact that the Chained God has been chained b/c the other gods/ascendants are worried about him corrupting/going berserk/destroying the world. it might not be as likely but Draconus' assisting in the release of the Chained God might be part of his 'destroy the world' plan.

[MTS]

Well, the Elders seem to not think he is a threat anymore. Perhaps that's hubris, but I doubt it. He has no army or real allies, and Setch and Killy are probably already siphoning his power into Akhrast Korvalain. Perhaps that's why he's so ineffectual? His power has waned as more and more is taken from him by those two, and he's powerless to stop it, chained as he is.

[Moby]

I seemed to get a strong connection between Draconus and "Chain" throughout the book... too lazy to actually find quotes.. just finished DoD this morning

[Urizen]

ISTN4249, on Aug 27 2009, 05:14 PM, said:

don't discount the fact that the Chained God has been chained b/c the other gods/ascendants are worried about him corrupting/going berserk/destroying the world. it might not be as likely but Draconus' assisting in the release of the Chained God might be part of his 'destroy the world' plan.

Who, Draconus?? He never indicated that he really wanted to destroy the world. Sure, He says he's contemplating destroying the world but in the next sentance he says that people like Ublala reminds him of why humanity ought to be spared.

[amphibian]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Aug 27 2009, 12:23 PM, said:

Well, the Elders seem to not think he is a threat anymore. Perhaps that's hubris, but I doubt it. He has no army or real allies, and Setch and Killy are probably already siphoning his power into Akhrast Korvalain. Perhaps that's why he's so ineffectual? His power has waned as more and more is taken from him by those two, and he's powerless to stop it, chained as he is.

One of the key points in this book was the nature of subtlety. At this point, Shadowthrone/Cotillion, Hood, Anomander and Kaminsod have shown themselves to be rather devious, subtle and very good at long range planning. I wouldn't be surprised if all had anticipated something along these lines, and constructed their plans so that there is a divergence point: if things go like this, this happens; if things go like that, that happens. The sides of the conflict are differentiated by the line dividing those who want "this" to happen and those who want "that" to happen.

The unchaining is probably planned by all sides. It's what happens after the unchaining that'll show which side wins.

[Venerus]

Mappo, on 23 August 2009 - 04:02 PM, said:

Could Ublala's quest be to break the CG's chains? We know that's Tavore's aim, but could it be Ublala's too? Now, bear with me. Ublala's mission is to save the world, right? Now, Draconus, Setch, Olar Ethil, Kilmandaros, Errastas (that's a much cooler name than the Errant, by the way) have all professed a desire to destroy the world. They want to unleash the OD, and, presumably, siphon Kaminsod's power, which again presumably would not be affected by the OD's involvement, said involvement destroying sorcery and nullifying all the opposition's power. Kaminsod's alienness would then seem to be a prime factor in his value, and why they never killed or imprisoned him. He's very powerful, and would presumably be able to defy the Elder Gods should he be free.

Now, Ublala said a rather thought-provoking thing in his encounter with Draconus, pg. 694 of the hardback:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->'...Now, collect up Rilk there and permit me to refasten your straps.'
'Oh, thank you. I don't like knots.'
'No one does, I should think.'
'But not as bad as chains, though.'
The stranger's hands hesitated on the fittings, and then resumed.
'True enough, friend.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It all seems rather innocuous, but we all know, everything has a purpose. Two other things piqued my interest earlier on, when Ublala receives Rilk and Dra Alkelient. Pg. 361 of the hardback:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->'The armour's name is Dra Alkelient - basically Thelemon for "I killed the dragon Dralk". He used that mace to do it, and it's name is Rilk, which is Thelomen for "Crush". Or "Smash" or something similar.'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The head was vaguely shaped to form four shattered bulbs - the ore was marled mercurial and deep blue.
'Skyfall,' said Harlest, 'that metal. Harder than iron.'<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Now, I don't know about you, but that got me a little suspicious. A Thelomen who doesn't like chains, is headed towards Kolanse, where Kaminsod is, holds a mace named "Crush", parts of it which are made from ore falling from the sky. We know from Withal that the only way to break a weapon is to hit it with something stronger a la Dragnipur and Brood's hammer, or take it back to the place it was forged. Now, this is the tenuous part of the theory, but what else fell from the sky? It might very well be the mace's odd metal is the same metal as those chaining Kaminsod.

EDIT: There's also the connection between the Tartheno Toblakai card (I'm assuming that to be Ublala) and Chain (Unaligned, mind you) after the Deck reading, when Fiddler is down in the basement or wherever. He says they "closed this dread night." Tenuous, I know, as then he talks about the power of the card spreading out to wrap around the Bonehunters, but still. Thought: could Kaminsod be manipulating the BH to come to his aid?

Could be, though, he is to kill the OD. Bearer of dragon armour, resistant to magic presumably, wielder of a dragon-killing mace, with another dragon threatening to destroy the world...

Ublala Pung, Herald of <i>Life</i>, saviour of the world, thwarter of doomsday plans and Elder Gods?

The only thing I would suggest is that Ublala is going to break the chains so that Kaminsod is free to return home and stop pestering everyone (and maybe take those peksy jade statues with him please).

[Ulrik]

I do not think that Ublala is goig to be corrupted by Draconus (damn, ha CANT be corrupted, you need somethng with brain to corrupt;))... but from those few dialogs I think reborn "good and pretty" Draconus takes Ublala in his idiocy and pure honesty like a friend. Old Hunch end I chained to breaking of dragnipur and releasing Draconus that ripped through all mages on continent. well, some drooled, some puked, some almost went mad and poor unstable ghost simply vanished. 

I may be wrong,, but... I do not think so:) There was many hints about change of Draconus´ attitude.

[Morgoth]

I always figured Draconus reaction to chains was a result of being chained to a wagon for a couple of hundred millenniums. Much like how Icarium flinches from the spear, Cotillion from the mention of ottataral and so on.

[Illuyankas]

Couple of hundred millenia? 120,000 years at most, man.

[Morgoth]

Illuyankas, on 15 September 2009 - 08:50 PM, said:

Couple of hundred millenia? 120,000 years at most, man.

I'll stop exaggerating numbers when you stop eating more than a single chicken at a time.

[Illuyankas]

CURSES

[fafner]

i was wondering one thing we know that the CG was worshipped in kolanse so the FA came for his hearth/power to open a big portal.
but one thing bugged me that the FA let those children go so far they are not the most nice of all peeps.
we also know that the CG is the aspect/god of suffering and the snake did suffer.
so can Held be the finnest(the hearth of the suffering of the snake) of the CG. so the FA can't get his power.
and now is the symbol of peace for the same snake/CG.