[MTS]

Alright, so now we got another reading and positions to sink our teeth into. Some are real doozies, too. So we got:

Table - Spinner of Death, Knight of Shadow, Master of the Deck
Sinn - Virgin of Death
Grub - Sceptre
QB - Magus of Dark
Hedge - Mason of Death
Sandalath Drukorlat - Queen of Dark
Lostara Yil - Champion of Life
Bottle - Obelisk
Gesler - Orb
Stormy - Throne
Brys - King of Life
Banaschar - Fool in Chains
Tavore - nothing

Tartheno Toblakai (Ublala I'm guessing) - Herald of Life
Chain

The only ones I can really figure are Sandalath and Hedge. Sandalath brings MD into the game and Hedge builds the road, for Hood probably. QB's is doubly strange. "There was a throne once...no, never mind". Crypitc as always.

Anyway, discuss away the implications and whatnot.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 22 August 2009 - 02:28 PM

[Lundos]

 Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Aug 21 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

Alright, so now we got another reading and positions to sink our teeth into. Some are real doozies, too. So we got:

Table - Spinner of Death, Knight of Shadow, Master of the Deck
Sinn - Virgin of Death
Grub - Sceptre
QB - Magus of Dark
Hedge - Mason of Death
Sandalath Drukorlat - Queen of Dark
Lostara Yil - Champion of Life
Bottle - Obelisk
Gesler - Orb
Stormy - Throne
Brys - King of Life
Banaschar - Fool in Chains
Tavore - nothing

Tartheno Toblakai (Ublala I'm guessing) - Herald of Life
Chain

The only ones I can really figure are Sandalath and Hedge. Sandalath brings MD into the game and Hedge builds the road, for Hood probably. Qb's is doubly strange. "There was a throne once...no, never mind". Crypitc as always.

Anyway, discuss away the implications and whatnot.

Ok. It's a lot so I'll just write out my thoughts. As far as I remember Sceptre, Obelisk, Throne, and Orb are unaligned, which means that Grub, Bottle, Stormy, and Gesler are unaligned so far. How does that stand with Stormy and Gesler as Shield Anvil and Mortal Sword of KCCM? Are they then unaligned? I don't think so. They seem to want to continue as they were before having an army, which means they're on Tavore's side.
We know that Grub returns to the Malazan Empire later on. And he looked shocked when he learned about the fate of the Bonehunters, so he'll probably want to return to them. He and Sinn seems inseparable, so it must be assumed that Virgin of Death will stand on Tavore's side too (with Hedge as the Mason of Death). Death is now the Bridgeburners lead by Whiskeyjack?
Then how does Yil fit in as a Champion of Life? She finishes DoD by shadowdancing. Not really a Champion of Life thing, but if she changes armies to be with that horny outrider guy, it might change something. Changing armies leads to Brys, who is know the King of Life. Is Yil his champion? I think it's something left for tCG.
Banaschar as Fool in Chains. Besides him being a drunken fool, does that mean Chains is on the same as Life and Death (which is wierd in it's own sense)? Probably not since he made a deal with the Errant.
As for QB. He is able to use the Tiste Andii warren, which means some part of his 12 souls have Andii blood (I think it's already been established somewhere else in this forum). And with his power why shouldn't Mother Dark, who needs new champions and power players not choose him?
Sandalath Drukorlat as Queen of Dark was chosen because she was the first Andii to return home.
On the table lay Spinner of Death, Knight of Shadow, and Master of the Deck. Of course Ganoes is important when we have elder fighting new gods. The Knight of Shadow is an unborn child. And who is the Spinner of Death? Anyway it seems that Shadow and Death are the two major players along side the Master of the Deck. So it's Kellanved, Dancer, Whiskeyjack and the Bridgeburners and Ganoes Paran against the Errant and his elder croonies? All former Malazans. The KCCM are brought back, but lead by two Malazans now. MD chooses a Malazan for her Magus. It all sort of fits.

EDIT: It actually looks like all the unaligned have sided with Tavore. I also think the reason she is left with nothing is because the Deck is unsure of her. Maybe it's because she's Ganoes sister. Or more likely it's because she's so guarded that even the Deck is unsure of her motives.

This post has been edited by Lundos: 22 August 2009 - 09:38 AM

[T'renn]

I haven't read the book yet, but it sounds like true pawnage in the best sense of the word

[MTS]

I would seriously advise that you not spoiler yourself anymore. Knowing that something will happen defeats the "HOLY SHIT" awesomeness of half of the scenes.

[Illuyankas]

Three things.

1. How awesomely powerful is that table? Maybe it's Grizzin Farl in disguise.
2. Bottle getting Obelisk only makes sense considering his Eres buddy.
3. Not a reading comment, but during the chase scene to find him, Fid breaks Stormy's nose. Who was the last person to break one of Stormy or Gesler's noses?

[polishgenius]

There's definitely something going on with Fiddler himself. He was given the card of Priest of Life at the original reading and I don't know if that ties, but he seems to have some ties to the Deck itself, what with the T'amber and Bugg both remarking on him being unusual even by caster standards. Not to mention, as well as breaking Stormy's nose he scares the shit out of Mael. His power doesn't seem to be direct- he's bluffing with the Errant, or at least he says he is- but it's apparently huge.

[Urizen]

I wonder who the Spinner of Death is, and why Fiddler put it on the table? The other two on the table can be explianed. Presumably the Knight of Shadows ended up on the table on account of him not having been born yet or/and Mael somehow shielding him, the Master of the Deck/Paran was held in readiness for the Errant but what about the Spinner of Death card?

[Egwene]

Could it be Tool taking on the role after he died?

[Epiph]

 Urizen, on Aug 22 2009, 03:25 PM, said:

Presumably the Knight of Shadows ended up on the table on account of him not having been born yet or/and Mael somehow shielding him...

Mael tells Seren Pedac that Fiddler purposefully put that card on the table to keep it out of play; ie, Mael et al were unnecessary because Fiddler was protecting the baby.

[MTS]

Yes, Epiph is right, Fiddler drove a "stake" through it, binding it to the table or some such. Whatever that means. Now, having the Master of the Deck there is obvious, as a deterrent for the Errant, but Spinner of Death...could be Olar Ethil, or Tool.

[Urizen]

 Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Aug 23 2009, 05:57 AM, said:

Yes, Epiph is right, Fiddler drove a "stake" through it, binding it to the table or some such. Whatever that means. Now, having the Master of the Deck there is obvious, as a deterrent for the Errant, but Spinner of Death...could be Olar Ethil, or Tool.

What does Spinner of Death represents? what does it "do" really? positions like Soldier of Death, Mason of Death, etc are understandable but Spinner is rather vague.

[fafner]

maybe the spinner is deathsmell the necromancer because he spin the dead into undead?

[Veilside]

Well, the spinner title presumably refers to someone that spins textiles together (http://en.wikipedia....nning_(textiles)). So from that, my assumption is that it simply refers to someone that spins peoples lives and death together.

I think all the card means is that a lot of people are going to die, the card doesn't have to refer to anyone in particular. People seem to keep forgetting that someone can occupy a position temporarily that advances the house. IE Kalam in DHG is refered to as the Herald of Death, well, that doesn't mean that he is the herald of death (He wasn't, the Jaghut that pops up in MoI is) all it means is that he's filling a position that serves the house. It also doesn't mean that there has to be anyone acting in the role, merely that the card is active, and refering to someone that is not at the reading.

[Lundos]

A whole other thing with all these House of Life cards thrown around the room is the lack of the Queen of Dreams (of Dust). Where is good old T'riss? What is she doing?

[Set'alahd Crool]

Obelisk was tied to Icarium in DG, though how Bottle might be connected to him I don't know.

The High House Life stuff got me thinking of Leoman and Dunsparrow...

Spinner of Death is temporarily absent from proceedings I assume, since that seems to be the only connection between the other two. Makes me think of Kalam for some reason. That said, Keneb fulfilled the role of Spinner of Death with his plague bluff. If that's indicative of the Spinner's role it doesn't fit with Kal.

[Veilside]

Icarium isn't Oeblisk, he was just serving as that particular role for that moment in time, and now Bottle is.

[MTS]

What T'riss is up to is a good question. As Queen of HHL, you would think she'd have contributed more to proceedings. Plus she has a King and Champion (highest ranks in the house) in that reading, so you would think her involvement would be more noticeable. However, ST and Cot didn't feature at all, yet we know their hand is in this somewhere. "Absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence", after all, so I think her influence is in there somewhere, we just can't see it. Like most things about this reading

[Urizen]

 Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Aug 27 2009, 07:03 AM, said:

What T'riss is up to is a good question. As Queen of HHL, you would think she'd have contributed more to proceedings. Plus she has a King and Champion (highest ranks in the house) in that reading, so you would think her involvement would be more noticeable. However, ST and Cot didn't feature at all, yet we know their hand is in this somewhere. "Absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence", after all, so I think her influence is in there somewhere, we just can't see it. Like most things about this reading

Or T'riss, seeing that the King and Champion are in action decides that she's not needed on Lether and involves herself in other business. Koreli and Assial for instance seems to regular hotspots..

[MTS]

Card reading =/= position in the Deck. We don't know who the King and Champion of Life are, so that's obviously not the reason. Dark and Death are exert an influence in the reading, and we can easily see their pertinence.

However, upon reflection the presence of so many Life cards doesn't necessitate HHL's involvement, merely the aspect of a person's choices, so discussion about T'riss is pointless.

Here's a thought...perhaps Brys and Lostara are given the cards they are because they have (presumably) contributed to saving the ragged remnants of the Bonehunters? It's a divination of future events, so the Life slant makes sense in that regard. Looking at it in that light, some more of the others make sense, namely Sinn.

[ISTN4249]

Mappo I would say that readings normally show what capacity you will act in (in regards to the houses/holds) and sometimes it does indicate a person holding that position but its passive. It shows the information only to those present at the reading until the time comes for the person that was dealt a card to act in the capacity of the position shown.

However

Quote

"This wasn't a reading,' Fiddler said. 'No one here was found. No one was claimed. Adjunct, they were marked. Do you understand?'

it seems like they haven't been "chosen" but marked. which makes them "visible" to ascendants/gods i imagine that would use/abuse/stop/help them. not a passive "you will end up doing this later and only us here at the table will know your position", but now something that anyone with a sensitivity to the deck/houses/holds can see.

stormy/gesler being a good example. how the hell did Gu'Rull find Stormy and Gesler out of the whole camp and know to use them? Well they were both marked by the reading that wasnt a reading as Orb and Throne. Unaligned. Perfect for the KCCM.