[dktorode]

Shinrei, on Aug 6 2009, 03:09 AM, said:

Ok, I'm caught up.

Hi Bent. <waves>

I barely remember what I wrote last night, so reading it this morning was funny. After the fireworks my father in law and his brother got a hold of me for more drinking, and that's what put me over the edge.

Sorry bwgan, I swear I'm not the kind of guy who gets drunk and attacks women, although I sort of attacked you last night. Not that I think you're necessarily inno, but I was a little out of line.

I still think Slick is scummy as hell. I'm willing to consider alternatives but for now

Vote Slick Mongoose

I really dont like this post.

You do know the right play would be voting for night tonight shin?

I think shin could very well be scum....has been extremely none confrontational all game.
And just blames it on the fact that he's always non confrontational...bah... this is mafia

[dktorode]

Shinrei, on Aug 6 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

Bent, your posts bother me. It sounds like you were waiting for me to post, so that you could take whatever I wrote and try to incriminate me. "Come here little shin, I have some questions" and when I arrive "VIG THE SCUM!" What gives?

I'm going out for a jog, I'll be back in 45 mins or so.

what is this?....I dont even?...huh

[dktorode]

drinksinbars, on Aug 6 2009, 09:36 AM, said:

You will have to excuse the plodding nature of my post, my head is still throbbing and i somehow crawled into work.

i dotn undersand what is going on this day. bent went from being obdi's buddy to calling him out. At this point for me it really is down to a question of do i believe bent or dont i in my mind. Thing is if we take slicks advice and go to night, we are essentially trusting bent to do another find even though we know he will be blocked. Essentially we are then setting up tomorrow to simply be today with one less person to choose from, and as this might seem like a good idea on paper, it will also lower the number of votes required to 4, and if the 3 scum remain will only require one bad vote instead of two to decide the lynch.

i know what you mean.

Im leaning towards the go to night play to bring the pool down.

The Inno CF on someone can also provide allot of info...
The fact that one wrong vote is all it will take instead of two just means if you are inno you have to be fucking sure before you put in a vote...bugger...now im having second as i type this....bloody hell

edit - extra words not make sense

This post has been edited by dktorode: 06 August 2009 - 07:45 AM

[Morgoth]

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

Slick Mongoose, on Aug 5 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

If D'rek is evil, why didn't she kill Bent last night?

Did anyone even attempt to answer this question?

Now, I realise that D'rek came up innocent, but this statement makes no sense what so ever. It just seems wilfully daft from my point of view.

bwgan, on Aug 5 2009, 09:17 PM, said:

Bent, on Aug 5 2009, 07:46 PM, said:

And if you are inno, that means that there are only 5 possibles....and if Dibs and DK are inno, that leaves 3 to choose from...Shin,bwgan,and slick. 2 killers and a guard?

Setting up lynches or something Bent? The clear alternative to there being a guard is that your reveal was a fake, and either you are in league with Morgy or using his innocence as a way to PI yourself. Because I am not scum.

I love how people have been saying bwgan plays this way when she is a killer...I've only ever been scum once and that was in highlander, when almost everyone else was scum.

That's good to know... It is possible that Bent is scum and use my innocence as a way of confirming his role, but I find that highly unlikely simply because it's too risky. I explained before why I don't think a killer or symp would act like that, and I stand by it. It alsmot seems to me that you're trying to lay the foundations for a Bent lynch. If there's a healer around that player will most likely be healing Bent, so as a scum you'd need to get him lynched to safeguard yourself.

And there will always be meta in non-alted games (Obdi has been using so much of it it's pouring out of his ears) but it seems to me that most of the pressure against you has been because of your playing style, independent of who you are.

bwgan, on Aug 5 2009, 10:37 PM, said:

I haven't got a case, as I normally understand them. Because this game is too diferent from any other that I have played. The players who know each other well can say X is inno because they are playing inno, which could be right, but means that for me I have to go on gut. I still don't like the way Obdi is playing nor the way Bent is saying, well he is so out there he must be inno. I am not convinced by Bent's reveal...I don't understand why he would reveal at all rather than lynch...based on a belief rather than evidence? Sorry I don't buy it. Not day 1....we always do a lousy lynch day 1, but it doesn't usuually stop us...

A fake reveal would clearly be a risk, which is the one thing that makes me doubt his guilt, but it might have been worth it, and at that point he didn't have much to lose...added to which Bent said 3 scum would be reasonable with a finder....so he might well have figured, if he knew there were two scum (because he was one of them) that there might not be a finder? Gah, I'm tying myself up in knots, and my suspicion of Tapper was clearly up to my usual standard, ie rubbish.

But if I had to bet any money at this point it would be on Dibs....and I don't know why...

Considering Bent was a hot candidate for a lynch, his reveal makes sense. Yet again though, you're trying to plant suspicion on Bent.

bwgan, on Aug 5 2009, 10:45 PM, said:

Aaargh!...Or should that be ROAAAAR, if I play quietly and nice, then I must be scum hiding. If I try to be a bit more aggressive I am playing out of character and so must be scum....Yay, for mafia...

Seriously I have no idea about Slick and if there was a case against him I would vote for him, but I do NOT get/like this tag team stuff from Bent and Obdi...which started day 1, before there was anything for either of you to go on.

this I agree with though, it makes me uneasy.

Bent, on Aug 5 2009, 10:59 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on Aug 4 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 5 minutes remaining.

11 players still alive: Grief, D'rek, Shinrei, Bent, Dkt, Bwgan, Slick, Tapper, Obdi, Morgoth, Dibs

6 votes to lynch. 5 votes to go to night.

3 Votes Obdi (D'rek, Slick, Bwgan)
3 Votes Bent (Dibs, Shin, Tapper)
1 Vote Bwgan (Morgy)
3 Votes Morgy (Bent, Obdi, Grief)
1 Vote DiBs (DKT)

then drek added to me...then slick added to me....i revealed....dibs removed.....drek said lie!...slick went to obi.....dibs went to obi

so, of those alive - i had dibs shin tapper drek and slick vote for me.....tapper is the only one of that group dead...if I were scum that means that its me dk and morgy all as scum...

obi had everyone switch to him....except tapper...who was inno..and shin......so if hes scum shin dk morgy and me could any be his partners.....morgy was found as inno....so if obi is scum and I am inno....dk or shin are the only ones who could be obis partners

I am the finder...morgy did come up inno...so the only way ob is scum...is if dk or shin is scum


more research is needed on voting, but I don't have time...I'll be back later and go through some more analysis.

I'm not so confident you can deduce that much from day 1 voting.

Shinrei, on Aug 6 2009, 03:09 AM, said:

Ok, I'm caught up.

Hi Bent. <waves>

I barely remember what I wrote last night, so reading it this morning was funny. After the fireworks my father in law and his brother got a hold of me for more drinking, and that's what put me over the edge.

Sorry bwgan, I swear I'm not the kind of guy who gets drunk and attacks women, although I sort of attacked you last night. Not that I think you're necessarily inno, but I was a little out of line.

I still think Slick is scummy as hell. I'm willing to consider alternatives but for now

Vote Slick Mongoose

this is just so wrong. Considering how few players there are left you just don't throw out a vote without more open deliberation.

Outside of this there's Slick and Obdi. I'm starting to wodner whether there's 2 symps and 1 killer (2 and 2 would be too much I think), and that Slick and Obdi are the two symps. They're just filling up the thread with nonsense, one liners and insults, making it very hard to pick anything out of whats going on around them. I haven't liked Obdi's play since the very begining, and Slick is not playing in a way that inspires confidence either.

As of now I'm thinking Bwgan with Slick and Obdi/Shin as the symps, or Bwgan and Shin with Obdi/Slick as the symp.

I'll wait putting down a vote though as there's no rush and we need to be carefull today.

[drinksinbars]

ok for me - the scum are either the group of shin and bwgan or the group of bent and obdi. Slick could be scum, but i dont know, if he was scum why would he push for night? also the main complaint is he is suspicious of bent, well why wouldnt he be? Seriously without a cf of guilty under his belt his finder status will always be questioned.

more importantly he claimed to be guarded, which is convenient as it means he doesnt ci another player so can still vote them. but the fact is i only removed off obdi yesterday when he and bent pushed so hard i was convinced they were partnered. therefore he couldnt have been guarded as they would have found anyway.

This morning though, they havent eben so buddy buddy and it seems bent is actually starting too worry about obdi. its bloody confusing is what it is. he also shouted at them bot for jumping on slick which makes him seem inno more to me, but i always get nervous when i am being ci'ed on thread. that just doesnt happen normally.

regardless i dont think i can vote bent, not being killed makes sense if there is an evil guard as it leaves a big pail of suspicion floating around his head. if his reveal is real, its been orchestrated very cleverly.

[Morgoth]

drinksinbars, on Aug 6 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

ok for me - the scum are either the group of shin and bwgan or the group of bent and obdi. Slick could be scum, but i dont know, if he was scum why would he push for night? also the main complaint is he is suspicious of bent, well why wouldnt he be? Seriously without a cf of guilty under his belt his finder status will always be questioned.

more importantly he claimed to be guarded, which is convenient as it means he doesnt ci another player so can still vote them. but the fact is i only removed off obdi yesterday when he and bent pushed so hard i was convinced they were partnered. therefore he couldnt have been guarded as they would have found anyway.

This morning though, they havent eben so buddy buddy and it seems bent is actually starting too worry about obdi. its bloody confusing is what it is. he also shouted at them bot for jumping on slick which makes him seem inno more to me, but i always get nervous when i am being ci'ed on thread. that just doesnt happen normally.

regardless i dont think i can vote bent, not being killed makes sense if there is an evil guard as it leaves a big pail of suspicion floating around his head. if his reveal is real, its been orchestrated very cleverly.

Why would a killer or a symp not play to do what's best for the innos? Or at least seem to? If they don't they get ousted pretty quick after all

[dktorode]

so you'd also rather get on with it today Morgo?
instead of thinning the "pool"...


If bent is telling the truth, which i have to think he is...then with your theory of there being two symps, how would that work with there being a evil guard about.
Would they be lover symps with one guard between them?
Or one plain symp and one guard symp...seems a bit...unlikely.

[drinksinbars]

cross post - i have been worried by bwgan all game. both she and shin are working hard not to ruffle feathers (which made that last vote of shins fairly odd as it was out of character for him to suddenly lead and complain about someone else leading too). there is also a difference between straight up questioning a reveal and doing so in a way that makes it seem like your not doing that.

[drinksinbars]

Morgoth, on Aug 6 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

drinksinbars, on Aug 6 2009, 10:01 AM, said:

ok for me - the scum are either the group of shin and bwgan or the group of bent and obdi. Slick could be scum, but i dont know, if he was scum why would he push for night? also the main complaint is he is suspicious of bent, well why wouldnt he be? Seriously without a cf of guilty under his belt his finder status will always be questioned.

more importantly he claimed to be guarded, which is convenient as it means he doesnt ci another player so can still vote them. but the fact is i only removed off obdi yesterday when he and bent pushed so hard i was convinced they were partnered. therefore he couldnt have been guarded as they would have found anyway.

This morning though, they havent eben so buddy buddy and it seems bent is actually starting too worry about obdi. its bloody confusing is what it is. he also shouted at them bot for jumping on slick which makes him seem inno more to me, but i always get nervous when i am being ci'ed on thread. that just doesnt happen normally.

regardless i dont think i can vote bent, not being killed makes sense if there is an evil guard as it leaves a big pail of suspicion floating around his head. if his reveal is real, its been orchestrated very cleverly.

Why would a killer or a symp not play to do what's best for the innos? Or at least seem to? If they don't they get ousted pretty quick after all

if you look back slick was proposing this yesterday as well when it wasnt dday to delay the decision even then. i cant find a scum wanting to add an extra day or miss two lynches in a row to give the impression of being inno.

[drinksinbars]

dktorode, on Aug 6 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

so you'd also rather get on with it today Morgo?
instead of thinning the "pool"...


If bent is telling the truth, which i have to think he is...then with your theory of there being two symps, how would that work with there being a evil guard about.
Would they be lover symps with one guard between them?
Or one plain symp and one guard symp...seems a bit...unlikely.

i have never seen a guard symp. if there is a guard they are going to cf scum surely?

[dktorode]

drinksinbars, on Aug 6 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

dktorode, on Aug 6 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

so you'd also rather get on with it today Morgo?
instead of thinning the "pool"...


If bent is telling the truth, which i have to think he is...then with your theory of there being two symps, how would that work with there being a evil guard about.
Would they be lover symps with one guard between them?
Or one plain symp and one guard symp...seems a bit...unlikely.

i have never seen a guard symp. if there is a guard they are going to cf scum surely?

wastn there one last game?

[dktorode]

well ok...i might be confused but the guard must surely know who his killer partner is then...
And he cant CF "killer" because he is a guard surely?

[drinksinbars]

dktorode, on Aug 6 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

well ok...i might be confused but the guard must surely know who his killer partner is then...
And he cant CF "killer" because he is a guard surely?

if they have different roles i would guess a cf of evil or scum.

weird i remember when we started playing here people cf'ed guilty. think it was mac who introduced town and scum. it was like the quick spot for him back in the day.

[dktorode]

drinksinbars, on Aug 6 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

dktorode, on Aug 6 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

well ok...i might be confused but the guard must surely know who his killer partner is then...
And he cant CF "killer" because he is a guard surely?

if they have different roles i would guess a cf of evil or scum.

weird i remember when we started playing here people cf'ed guilty. think it was mac who introduced town and scum. it was like the quick spot for him back in the day.

I could swear the latest CF trend is "killer"

i might be imagining things though

[Shinrei]

Ok, damned if I do, damned if I dont is what I'm getting from this. "show teeth shin!" "oh-no, shin's showing teeth"

Fine, my vote on Slick was ill-thought out. I actually DID think about it, scrolling up to see PS's post to see how many votes were required to lynch. And I thought to myself that 2 votes when it required 5 to lynch would be safe. Obviously if there are 3 scum it's not, so after Bent's post I removed.

I think Slick is scummy and I guess I've hung my hat on that stand. If people want to think I"m a killer or symp, no, that's not fine because I am not scum. I'm sorry if my play is confusing but I was thinking that I needed to push SM out of his "____?" slew of posts, so I voted for him - you can't accuse me of being inconsistent.

If my vote is needed, I will vote, but at this point it seems better that I don't vote at all. I'll see if I can manage to stay up until between 2 and 3 am tonight since I don't have anything to do tomorrow.

[dktorode]

Shin when we ask you to "show your teeth" we dont want you to throw down silly votes for next to no reason.

We would like to see you try and find killers by asking the hard questions, drilling people to see what they say.
You nice guys just comment on what others have already said and seem to stay out of any arguments and debates.
Which gives us no information on what you are.

Its very difficult for scum to fabricate cases on innocent people, thats why when a person just cruises through a game he is seen as potential scum who is struggling to make inno's look bad and is hiding untill they get an opportunity to do so.

[Shinrei]

I realize that dk, and I know this probably sounds lame but I don't really feel like I've been in this game. All of the heated discussion you talk about has largely happened while I was asleep. Last night was my own fault, because I was drinking and passed out, but I read through the back and forth and can really only form impressions of posters from what I can glean from a straight read.

You're right about one thing though, I should be better about asking tough questions to push people - which means I need to be less lazy about the morning read through.

[Shinrei]

And speaking of questions - dk where do you stand at the moment? You mentioned that voting night was a smart thing to do, but you're not doing it. And what do you think of Bent's reasoning a while back that you, obdi and dibs are PI?

[Morgoth]

drinksinbars, on Aug 6 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

dktorode, on Aug 6 2009, 09:03 AM, said:

so you'd also rather get on with it today Morgo?
instead of thinning the "pool"...


If bent is telling the truth, which i have to think he is...then with your theory of there being two symps, how would that work with there being a evil guard about.
Would they be lover symps with one guard between them?
Or one plain symp and one guard symp...seems a bit...unlikely.

i have never seen a guard symp. if there is a guard they are going to cf scum surely?

I've had symp-guards in several of my games. It's hardly an unheard of concept and can easily be added instead of another killerfor balance's sake.

[Morgoth]

@dk - it actually never occured to me to go to night. It's such an alien concept these days, voting for night.

I agree it's not a bad decision. Still, I don't want to die.