[slickwalker]

Ok, so he was Theloman Toblakai which I previously assumed meant 'magic immune' so
1. How was he a high mage to the empress
2. What led to his 'ascension' to becoming a fallen god? Last I remember, he was fighting it out for dominence inside Silverfox, I dont recall an event that would have let to his becoming a godlike individual.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Bellurdan was probably a Fenn, a population descended from the Toblakai like the Teblor who were conquered by the Malazan empire and that's why he serves as High Mage.
It was only believed that he was also inside Silverfox but in truth he was left on the floor of chaos where he saw Hairlock and tried to become a puppet too. Then he found the skyship and returned on Malaziworld as the Dying God.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 08 July 2009 - 07:53 AM

[D'rek]

Bauchelain the Evil, on Jul 7 2009, 02:08 PM, said:

It was only believed that he was also inside Silverfox but in truth he was left on the floor of chaos the Abyss where he saw Hairlock and tried to become a puppet too. Then he found the skyship and returned on Malaziworld as the Dying God.

Fixed^^

And being a Thelomen Toblakai (or a descended race from them) does not make one magic-immune. The Teblor would not be magic-immune except that they live around and have as part of their culture blood oil which reduces magic and they've over generations gotten it in themselves.

[Aptorian]

I think it is a racial trait as much as the ottataral that makes the TTT descendants magic resistant, on top of that, they may all be able to generate personal warrens and depending upon their power it makes them more or less more immune. That doesn't mean that magic can't kill them though, just that they are harder to kill, your average squad mage is not going to be able to kill them through conventional means.

The fact that they may be magically resistant, doesn't mean they can't have magic. The giant races certainly have spirit magic, Old Haunch guy from RG is proof of that. I believe you would call him a shoulderman. It is only the Teblor warriors who are often in contact with bloodoil and as such should be covered in O-dust, that you could argue would have problems with wielding magic, younger magic anyway. Bellurdan probably didn't mess around with Ottataral. He was probably also using older warrens.

The Bellurdan we hear of in TTH was just a fragment of Bellurdan I think, the bad part of him, unwanted when Silverfox was merging to become a solid personality.

I still think Erikson made a bad choice chosing Bellurdan as the bad guy for TTH. It should have been Hairlock. Using Bellurdan made no sense.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on Jul 7 2009, 02:45 PM, said:

I still think Erikson made a bad choice chosing Bellurdan as the bad guy for TTH. It should have been Hairlock. Using Bellurdan made no sense.

Massive agreement on this one.

[slickwalker]

The blood oil, that' right! How'd I miss that.

Thanks for the responses guys. I've been looking hard for an active Malazan site, and am glad I finally found one. I have so many questions, good to know there's a place I can finally go!

[Abyss]

Iirc, Bellurdan is pureblood T3. Not Teblor, Tarthenal, Fent or any of the other derivations.

He's also a High Mage in his own right, and in GotM when he was frying Tattersail, Tool, elsewhere with Lorn, mentions that he sense the T3 warren being used.

Point being Bellurdan was a powerful and old T3, and there was a dangling plot point from MoI about where his chunk of the Silverfox personality had gone.

I tend to agree Hairlock would have made more sense in the Chaos context, but i suppose then Kallor would not have recognized him, not that that really added anything significant. Hairlock was eaten by the Hounds, after all, and it's not like one just slips away from that.

- Abyss, could say Hairlock went to the Dogs...

[D'rek]

Abyss, on Jul 7 2009, 03:53 PM, said:

Iirc, Bellurdan is pureblood T3. Not Teblor, Tarthenal, Fent or any of the other derivations.

I believe it is mentioned somewhere that Nightchill and Bellurdan came to the Empire from the Fent icelands on northern Quon Tali (or maybe just went for a visit there), but yeah, that don't mean he's a regular Fent.

Abyss, on Jul 7 2009, 03:53 PM, said:

He's also a High Mage in his own right, and in GotM when he was frying Tattersail, Tool, elsewhere with Lorn, mentions that he sense the T3 warren being used.

Could be a GotMism, though, as the only related warren mention for T3 beyond that is the Perish dude's talk of warrens unto themselves

Abyss, on Jul 7 2009, 03:53 PM, said:

Point being Bellurdan was a powerful and old T3, and there was a dangling plot point from MoI about where his chunk of the Silverfox personality had gone.

Sort of. That was the Mhybe or Korlat after the issue of Tattersail or Nightchill dominating came up, right? And come to think of it, Itkovian just said she was at peace internally, never specifically said he could actually sense the three distinct personnages QB was talking about in her...

Abyss, on Jul 7 2009, 03:53 PM, said:

I tend to agree Hairlock would have made more sense in the Chaos context, but i suppose then Kallor would not have recognized him, not that that really added anything significant. Hairlock was eaten by the Hounds, after all, and it's not like one just slips away from that.

There was never really any usage of the DyG being the boyfriend of one of Kallor's cursers, though, just a couple off-hand thoughts as he walked away...

[Excellence]

The self called Teblor have long exposure to otataral like elements.

I hadn't noticed this before . . .! Thelomen Toblakai like Bellurdan are not Elder. So Belly must have an Elder warren he can call upon, because we know he can Elder warren.

[MTS]

Excellence, on Jul 15 2009, 08:38 PM, said:

The self called Teblor have long exposure to otataral like elements.

I hadn't noticed this before . . .! Thelomen Toblakai like Bellurdan are not Elder. So Belly must have an Elder warren he can call upon, because we know he can Elder warren.

Maybe I'm being an idiot and misinterpreting, but you've just contradicted yourself. If he's not Elder, then he wouldn't have a racially specific Elder Warren such as Omtose Phellack to call upon (if there even is one), whereas he might if he was Elder. It all depends on whether they predated K'rul's organising of the warrens. Elder Warrens seem to be habitable realms unto themselves, like Tellann or Kurald Galain, whereas the Paths don't seem to be - only static folds in existence that you trudge through to get you from A to B. That I think is the difference. The Teblor don't have any warren magics, so I would assume what warrens they did use (if they did at all) would not have been Elder, as we see no evidence of warren magics present in modern Teblor culture, probably due to the otataral.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 15 July 2009 - 10:50 AM

[Aptorian]

Excellence, on Jul 15 2009, 12:38 PM, said:

The self called Teblor have long exposure to otataral like elements.

I hadn't noticed this before . . .! Thelomen Toblakai like Bellurdan are not Elder. So Belly must have an Elder warren he can call upon, because we know he can Elder warren.

This post makes little sense.

[Excellence]

For all we know . . . and with Quick Ben, it's all we know indeed . . . isn't Andi but can access Kurald Galain, in Memories of Ice. Some people have an as-yet unexplained access to high warrens they shouldn't have.

What I'm saying is, we know Belly has Elder warren power, but we know he personally isn't Elder, and the Theloman Toblakai are not really an Elder race like Andi, for eg.

Does that make better sense?

[MTS]

Well, with QB it's a bit of an aberration, because he is a mish-mash of different souls. In ROTCG though

Spoiler

there's that Heuk guy who worships Mother Dark, but that's at least explainable, as his Elder Dark worship has given him access, and Silk, who uses Kurald Thyrlann, but that's probably due to worship of the Protectress.

[D'rek]

Excellence, on Jul 15 2009, 06:52 AM, said:

For all we know . . . and with Quick Ben, it's all we know indeed . . . isn't Andi but can access Kurald Galain, in Memories of Ice. Some people have an as-yet unexplained access to high warrens they shouldn't have.

What I'm saying is, we know Belly has Elder warren power, but we know he personally isn't Elder, and the Theloman Toblakai are not really an Elder race like Andi, for eg.

Does that make better sense?

Well QB could have an Andii or half-Andii sould somewhere in him or something like that, or he just figured out how to access KG and thus uses it. Or something.

Does Bellurdan use an Elder warren? Where is this stated? But even if so, he was mate to Nightchill for a long time, I'm sure she could've shown him.

Also note there's that list of warrens Tool utters when Tattersail, Bellurdan and Nightchill's body get into the big conflagration - he lists Thelomen Toblakai among his warrens, perhaps evincing a bit of racial warren/spirit magic. (Also lists SD... Nightchill = eleint soletaken?)

[coltainereborn]

quick ben also houses seven souls of mages, one of them could have given him access to KG

[Bauchelain the Evil]

QB has actually 13 souls( including his own) and not seven and I'm sure that if one of his souls could have used KG we would have been told. I simply believe that QB could use KG in MoI thanks to the complete unveiling that made a chunk of Kg appear in Malaziworld.

[D'rek]

Bauchelain the Evil, on Jul 17 2009, 08:32 AM, said:

QB has actually 13 souls( including his own) and not seven and I'm sure that if one of his souls could have used KG we would have been told. I simply believe that QB could use KG in MoI thanks to the complete unveiling that made a chunk of Kg appear in Malaziworld.

12 (including his own)

[coltainereborn]

D'rek, on Jul 17 2009, 08:40 AM, said:

Bauchelain the Evil, on Jul 17 2009, 08:32 AM, said:

QB has actually 13 souls( including his own) and not seven and I'm sure that if one of his souls could have used KG we would have been told. I simply believe that QB could use KG in MoI thanks to the complete unveiling that made a chunk of Kg appear in Malaziworld.

12 (including his own)

right, he has the twelve warrens, but can onlly acess seven at a time(for some reason)

[Excellence]

Ragman in Crimson Guard used Galain too.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

But there is an easy explaination: Ragman is part-probably half- Andii

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 14 September 2009 - 03:45 PM