[caladanbrood]

Honours vary from uni to uni and from course to course. For example, I am getting an Honours degree, despite having failed several modules during the last three years, some quite badly. In our course, Honours are awarded for getting a 2.1 or 1st in the Safety modules (that means 60% or above, basically), since they are deemed rather significant, even though they have less actual weighting in the overal mark...

[Giles]

Im pretty sure anything below a third is a fail

[Cougar]

Good god, confusing topic is confusing.

Forget all that shite that goes on before the age of 16. At age 16 you sit your GCSEs, usually around 9 subjects, English, Maths, Sciences are generally compulsory. You are awarded markes from A*-F although anything lower than a C is regarded as an effective fail. The A* was introduced in about 1994 because people thought it was too easy to get an A. This is the end of compulsory education.

After this you can choose to do an extra 2 years (some do this at a seperate college, some stay at their High School for 2 extra years) The output of this is A (advanced) levels which (except in some unusual cases) are what you need to get onto a university course. Typically prior to the late 90s you only did 3 A levels as they were pretty damn hard (less than 4% of those who took them could get all A grades, in 1998 my college which was the best in the area got 21 students achieving all A grades out of 450) but in the last 10 years they have become demonstrably easier and now people take as many as 6. You pick whatever subjects you like, but must be careful as most good University courses will only accept you if you have studied the right A Levels (eg: for Chemistry at any decent Uni you will need Chemistry A Level, for Physics you would likely need Physics and Maths). 10 years ago I was interested in possibly studying in the states and I enquired about how A Levels were viewed the US and was told they were held to be a higher standard than what US students had at an equivalent age (which is logical when you think they are specialised in 3 subjects rather than a general high school graduation) I doubt this is still the case.

To get into Oxford or Cambridge you would almost certainly need all A grades in your A Levels and to get onto the best courses at the Red brick Uni's (ie: the other good ones) like Imperial, UCL, Leeds, Manchester, Durham, or highly regarded courses at lesser Unis ie: Acoustic Engineering at Salford (shit Uni, great course) or Politics at Sussex (23 out of 24 in it's last independent course assessment) you would need either all As or maybe AAB.

The course you do at Uni is specialised from day 1, there is limited opportunities to do other courses outside your specialism but they are very limited, Chemistry is Chemistry, History is History, unlike US courses they don't have the same degree of diversity and there is no selecting your major.Pressumably this is why US courses last longer. In 2000 when I shared with some guys from the US on an exchange they were taking 1st year courses at Manchester even though they were 3rd years.

Medical degrees are medical degrees from day one as are law degrees, there is no 'grad school' you go too afterwards strictly speaking (although of course a medical degree takes 5 years) Most courses are bachelors degrees and take 3 years, some are 4 years and only come as a Masters. Honours has different exact meanings at different instituions and isn't particularly important. On mine it meant you had passed all courses at certain level (rather than your average mark being the only consideration). Ultimately your average mark will determine your grade though. An First class degree usually being 70% plus, and Upper Class Second (2:1) being 60% plus, a lower second class (2:2) 50% and a third being over 40% you can also just get a pass. The thresholds are not set in stone and the university may decide to award no firsts even if people have got over 70%.

After Bachelors you can go on to do a Masters (1 year) and then a PhD (another 3 years) there is also Mphil (halfway between the two) which takes 2 years after a Masters.

At Oxford and Cambridge they give you an MA after 3 years but it means fuck all.

[Yellow]

Not a bad summary

[Astra]

Shinrei, on Jul 5 2009, 01:55 AM, said:

F(graduate at about 18 years old).
Bachelors degree (4 years, lots of people take 5 to finish)
Masters degree (2 years)
PhD (however long it takes, usually 3-5 years.)

This is how it should be. The same or very similar system is in Israel.

However in England the education system is totally fucked up and getting worse with every passing year. It is all about targets now. Knowledge? Who cares? Targets targets targets. Schools, colleges and low level universities must achieve targets set by government or they will not get funding. How do you achieve let's say 70% of students pass when you have only 45% really capable of doing it? You lower exam level difficulty. So, targets are achieved. Students get degrees. Schools, colleges and universities get money. Everybody is happy.

[Cougar]

Astra, that it a very poor attitude, who are you to pass judgement on what the best structured education system is?
The idea of the system being hampered by targets etc would be pretty correct for anything up to 18 years old and for the lower quality universities, but that isn't quite right for the better institutions. You could never accuse Oxbridge or the Redbricks of simply chasing targets. However, they are becoming increasingly money hungry which means they are always looking for ways to get more bums on seats. That is dissapponting.

[Impirion]

Yellow, on Jul 5 2009, 11:32 AM, said:

I thought anything below a third was a fail.

That would be like 30% or something, that's pretty low for a pass Having said that, I think in GCSEs these days you only need a G to pass. That must be like 20% or something.

Nah, I am positive it's an ordinary below a third, given some people got it when our results were posted...

[Giles]

i thought 40-50 was a third, and as below 40 is a fail that there was no grade below third. Unless a third is 45-50

[Impirion]

Cougar, on Jul 5 2009, 01:47 PM, said:

Astra, that it a very poor attitude, who are you to pass judgement on what the best structured education system is?
The idea of the system being hampered by targets etc would be pretty correct for anything up to 18 years old and for the lower quality universities, but that isn't quite right for the better institutions. You could never accuse Oxbridge or the Redbricks of simply chasing targets. However, they are becoming increasingly money hungry which means they are always looking for ways to get more bums on seats. That is dissapponting.

One qualifying factor to what Cougar has said is that the top universities are being forced to increase their state school intake, which may lower standards, although maybe not potential.

[Slum]

You foreigners have a stupid grading system. Just go ahead and use the U.S.'s system. It's easier and better. I'd much rather have a GPA than all this ratio crap. Yep.

This post has been edited by Slumgullion Spitteler: 05 July 2009 - 02:18 PM

[caladanbrood]

It's nothing to do with ratios

[Impirion]

Ratio? it's pretty much like a GPA from what I gather, except it may not count every single course we take and it's not quite as specific as a GPA in terms of the scores we get..

[Slum]

I don't know...I was never very good at math.

But - 2:2, 2:1, etc

Looks like ratios to me.

[caladanbrood]

I got an average mark of 54.21%... this gives me a grade of 2:2, which is a lower second-class degree. No ratios

[Slum]

Umm what are ratios, then. I'm still drunk from last night.

[Impirion]

2:1 and 2:2 are simply ways of splitting second class.
1 - 70%+
2.1 - 60-70%
2.2 - 50-60%
3 - 40-50%

[caladanbrood]

Yes, in maths, 2:1 would be a ratio. But that's not what these means. Think of it like 1st is an A, 2:1 is a B, 2:2 is a C and 3rd is a D.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

What is it in America? 4.0, 3.5, 3.0, 2.5?

Just think of it as the same, 4.0 = 1st, 3.5 = 2:1, 3.0 = 2:2, 2.5 = 3rd, etc.

[Slum]

caladanbrood, on Jul 5 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

I got an average mark of 54.21%... this gives me a grade of 2:2, which is a lower second-class degree. No ratios

A 54 would earn you a solid F in America.

A = 4.0 (95-100)
A- = 3.7 (90-94)
B+ = 3.3 (87-89)
B= 3.0 (85,86-ish)
B- 2.7 (80-84)
C+ 2.5 (77-79)
C= 2.0 (75, 76)

If you get below a C, you can pretty much write it off. You have basically failed.

[Impirion]

It's virtually impossible to get above 90% here in the UK, and anyone who even gets near it at Oxbridge is a freaking genius... just slightly different scales of marking...