[Korlat]

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

*cough cough*It simply said I can kill one person during the night.

so you can kill every night, nice of you to finally admit it

Also, I like how you are attacking me to draw attention away from Rashan.

i admit, rashan is the spider, you had me over a barrell with your amazing deductions and i cant contain myself anymore i rename thee jean tannen, sherlock of the holmes.

He's the only person actually defending you, so its obvious he's in your faction.

[Rashan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Also, that's some smooth symping, Rashan. I would have missed it, if not for the BIG NEON SIGN SCREAMING SYMP SYMP PROTECTING LEADER.

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

*cough cough*It simply said I can kill one person during the night.

so you can kill every night, nice of you to finally admit it

Also, I like how you are attacking me to draw attention away from Rashan.

Floundering all over the place now aren't you. First I am symping kaschan then kaschan is symping me. After someone else comes on and makes a smart post will they also be a symp or leader. Keep flailing around the quick sand will only suck you down that much faster.

[Kaschan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

*cough cough*It simply said I can kill one person during the night.

so you can kill every night, nice of you to finally admit it

Also, I like how you are attacking me to draw attention away from Rashan.

i admit, rashan is the spider, you had me over a barrell with your amazing deductions and i cant contain myself anymore i rename thee jean tannen, sherlock of the holmes.

He's the only person actually defending you, so its obvious he's in your faction.

you know i am good at the hwole fear mongering stuff too. Like if only one person is defending me, wheres the rest of my bloody team!!!

[Kaschan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

He's the only person actually defending you, so its obvious he's in your faction.

haha, actually you said earlier when defending liosan that just cause you defended him you werent his symp

[Ampelas]

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

Gamelon, on Jul 7 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

Well, that was not by the playbook so far... But it WAS eventful and highly entertaining
Now to salvage something constructive from all this...

First off, it seems to me that Foreigner tag equates Gray King. The two thief gangs and the secret police are all townbased, so 'foreign' seems to apply to the Gray King only, who was a pirate, if I'm not mistaken. He also had hired the Falconer, who was as foreign as.

So, unless Kaschan made all this up and lied (playing with fire, then), I'm willing to accept him as finder.
The question now is: is he a finder learning faction alignment and he tarred Morgoth with the FALCONER brush to make him appear more of a threat without any actual basis for it, or does he learn role names?

If the first, I am content to leave him around. If the second, he has an awesomely powerful role, probably worthy of a faction leader. As such, anyone not of his faction will do their own faction a real pleasure by voting him off before he does more damage.

See there were so many holes in Kaschan's reveal that I don't buy him as a real finder. Korlat and Liosan both pointed them out but did so by outing themselves. Plus I can't see someone with a power role revealing like that on day 2. Especially in a Merc game. That is asking to be targeted for a lynch. It looked to me to be a move that a nonroled player would make. After all as a nonroled he would have nothing to lose so it is ok for him to try to play with fire in order to get people to reveal themselves. Think about it. He points at Morgoth and calls him the Falcon. Doesn't matter if he is or not. He has to defend himself. If he is a leader then his team mates have to defend him. Now the fact that it was Morgoth just meant that he would definitely defend himself strongly and perhaps reveal something that he wasn't suppose to. Which he obviously did otherwise he wouldn't have been killed. A leader does not reveal on the second day of the game. It wouldn't make any sense what so ever.

I agree that Kaschan's probably not a leader, but I think calling him non-roled is a bit of a stretch. If you reveal finder in a merc game, you are not going to survive to see the end of it. His chances of death are 100%, so he's only going to reveal if the information he provides is good enough to justify his team's loss of a member. Even if he were roleless, he's still a warm body. He counts toward a majority, and thus should do everything he can to survive. It seems a terribly unnecessary risk to get himself killed on a hunch. There's no way he could know after one day of spam what faction Morgoth was in, and it seems pretty likely that he was right.

The only argument against this is that maybe Kaschan is just messing around and wanted to get Morgoth killed no matter what it costs him because they have their little feud or whatever. Weak meta arguments aren't enough for me, however.

[Rashan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:36 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:20 AM, said:

*cough cough*
My role didn't specify I couldn't kill certain characters, by the way. It simply said I can kill one person during the night. So, while I took the codex thing at face value, I don't know if its true or not.

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Also, that's some smooth symping, Rashan. I would have missed it, if not for the BIG NEON SIGN SCREAMING SYMP SYMP PROTECTING LEADER.

Oh he isn't my leader. Believe me. After reading his reveal I did find it curious that you of all people didn't come to the same conclusion that I did. Why would a finder reveal on day 2? He wouldn't but a nonroled would. So it was a brilliant move on his part. That you have revealed your self to be a killer means that we should get rid of you first. If someone took out Liosan then someone else will probably take out Kaschan if not then we can lynch him tomorrow. But you are a self proclaimed VIG (Bullshit) more likely a killer who is trying to hide behind a vig. Well I have seen that show before to and don't buy it any more then I buy Kashcans finder reveal.

That's an excellent tactic, but I've seen it before, in fact, used by Kaschan in a previous game. "We'll lynch him if he survives tonight." If he does, there will be enough new info from other CFs for you to conveniently manipulate people into forgetting the case on Kaschan. I revealed as vig, and as I said, if I was killer, I'd have ignored Kasch today and killed him in the night. Think about this logically; Kaschan being roleless and revealing as finder wouldn't be enough to convince me to reveal as a vig unless he really did have some help in the night, and I thought, and still think, the odds of him being a Leader are good enough to reveal that I used my one kill and push for his lynch.

I am thinking about it logically. You tried to kill someone who wasn't a leader and if I let you live you will try to kill my leader. That is a chance that I don't want to take. Most people will be suspicious enough of Kaschan to either kill him tonight or lynch him tomorrow. Right now I see a person who has admitted to being a killer and there is no way that you should live to night to get a shot at my leader.

[Korlat]

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Also, that's some smooth symping, Rashan. I would have missed it, if not for the BIG NEON SIGN SCREAMING SYMP SYMP PROTECTING LEADER.

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

*cough cough*It simply said I can kill one person during the night.

so you can kill every night, nice of you to finally admit it

Also, I like how you are attacking me to draw attention away from Rashan.

Floundering all over the place now aren't you. First I am symping kaschan then kaschan is symping me. After someone else comes on and makes a smart post will they also be a symp or leader. Keep flailing around the quick sand will only suck you down that much faster.

Flailing? I haven't flailed or even been slightly worried. My reveal helped my team, and even if I die, someone else will hopefully have the sense to vig Kaschan. And now that you've stepped up to the plate, once Kaschan's CF comes through, you'll also look like fresh meat. I've traded my vig and my life for a definate kill of Kaschan, who is probably a power role, the death of Liosan was also a byproduct (he wasn't on my team), and potentially your own death, and I don't think you are on my team (the odds are good that you aren't). I've taken out three birds with one self-sacrifice. Gives my team quite an advantage.

[Kaschan]

Ampelas, on Jul 7 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

The only argument against this is that maybe Kaschan is just messing around and wanted to get Morgoth killed no matter what it costs him because they have their little feud or whatever. Weak meta arguments aren't enough for me, however.

not a chance.

[Rashan]

Ampelas, on Jul 7 2009, 10:41 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

Gamelon, on Jul 7 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

Well, that was not by the playbook so far... But it WAS eventful and highly entertaining
Now to salvage something constructive from all this...

First off, it seems to me that Foreigner tag equates Gray King. The two thief gangs and the secret police are all townbased, so 'foreign' seems to apply to the Gray King only, who was a pirate, if I'm not mistaken. He also had hired the Falconer, who was as foreign as.

So, unless Kaschan made all this up and lied (playing with fire, then), I'm willing to accept him as finder.
The question now is: is he a finder learning faction alignment and he tarred Morgoth with the FALCONER brush to make him appear more of a threat without any actual basis for it, or does he learn role names?

If the first, I am content to leave him around. If the second, he has an awesomely powerful role, probably worthy of a faction leader. As such, anyone not of his faction will do their own faction a real pleasure by voting him off before he does more damage.

See there were so many holes in Kaschan's reveal that I don't buy him as a real finder. Korlat and Liosan both pointed them out but did so by outing themselves. Plus I can't see someone with a power role revealing like that on day 2. Especially in a Merc game. That is asking to be targeted for a lynch. It looked to me to be a move that a nonroled player would make. After all as a nonroled he would have nothing to lose so it is ok for him to try to play with fire in order to get people to reveal themselves. Think about it. He points at Morgoth and calls him the Falcon. Doesn't matter if he is or not. He has to defend himself. If he is a leader then his team mates have to defend him. Now the fact that it was Morgoth just meant that he would definitely defend himself strongly and perhaps reveal something that he wasn't suppose to. Which he obviously did otherwise he wouldn't have been killed. A leader does not reveal on the second day of the game. It wouldn't make any sense what so ever.

I agree that Kaschan's probably not a leader, but I think calling him non-roled is a bit of a stretch. If you reveal finder in a merc game, you are not going to survive to see the end of it. His chances of death are 100%, so he's only going to reveal if the information he provides is good enough to justify his team's loss of a member. Even if he were roleless, he's still a warm body. He counts toward a majority, and thus should do everything he can to survive. It seems a terribly unnecessary risk to get himself killed on a hunch. There's no way he could know after one day of spam what faction Morgoth was in, and it seems pretty likely that he was right.

The only argument against this is that maybe Kaschan is just messing around and wanted to get Morgoth killed no matter what it costs him because they have their little feud or whatever. Weak meta arguments aren't enough for me, however.

See I don't buy into the whole agruement that if you aren't roled then you should just keep your head down and try to live till the end. If you can make a play and get people to reveal who aren't on your team then make that play. It is better to do that then to just hang around and get lynched on day 5 cause.

[Kaschan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

I've taken out three birds with one self-sacrifice. Gives my team quite an advantage.

thats my line

[Korlat]

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:35 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:30 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

*cough cough*It simply said I can kill one person during the night.

so you can kill every night, nice of you to finally admit it

Also, I like how you are attacking me to draw attention away from Rashan.

i admit, rashan is the spider, you had me over a barrell with your amazing deductions and i cant contain myself anymore i rename thee jean tannen, sherlock of the holmes.

He's the only person actually defending you, so its obvious he's in your faction.

you know i am good at the hwole fear mongering stuff too. Like if only one person is defending me, wheres the rest of my bloody team!!!

They're smart enough to abandon a sinking ship.

Ampelas, on Jul 7 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

Gamelon, on Jul 7 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

Well, that was not by the playbook so far... But it WAS eventful and highly entertaining
Now to salvage something constructive from all this...

First off, it seems to me that Foreigner tag equates Gray King. The two thief gangs and the secret police are all townbased, so 'foreign' seems to apply to the Gray King only, who was a pirate, if I'm not mistaken. He also had hired the Falconer, who was as foreign as.

So, unless Kaschan made all this up and lied (playing with fire, then), I'm willing to accept him as finder.
The question now is: is he a finder learning faction alignment and he tarred Morgoth with the FALCONER brush to make him appear more of a threat without any actual basis for it, or does he learn role names?

If the first, I am content to leave him around. If the second, he has an awesomely powerful role, probably worthy of a faction leader. As such, anyone not of his faction will do their own faction a real pleasure by voting him off before he does more damage.

See there were so many holes in Kaschan's reveal that I don't buy him as a real finder. Korlat and Liosan both pointed them out but did so by outing themselves. Plus I can't see someone with a power role revealing like that on day 2. Especially in a Merc game. That is asking to be targeted for a lynch. It looked to me to be a move that a nonroled player would make. After all as a nonroled he would have nothing to lose so it is ok for him to try to play with fire in order to get people to reveal themselves. Think about it. He points at Morgoth and calls him the Falcon. Doesn't matter if he is or not. He has to defend himself. If he is a leader then his team mates have to defend him. Now the fact that it was Morgoth just meant that he would definitely defend himself strongly and perhaps reveal something that he wasn't suppose to. Which he obviously did otherwise he wouldn't have been killed. A leader does not reveal on the second day of the game. It wouldn't make any sense what so ever.

I agree that Kaschan's probably not a leader, but I think calling him non-roled is a bit of a stretch. If you reveal finder in a merc game, you are not going to survive to see the end of it. His chances of death are 100%, so he's only going to reveal if the information he provides is good enough to justify his team's loss of a member. Even if he were roleless, he's still a warm body. He counts toward a majority, and thus should do everything he can to survive. It seems a terribly unnecessary risk to get himself killed on a hunch. There's no way he could know after one day of spam what faction Morgoth was in, and it seems pretty likely that he was right.

The only argument against this is that maybe Kaschan is just messing around and wanted to get Morgoth killed no matter what it costs him because they have their little feud or whatever. Weak meta arguments aren't enough for me, however.

If he truly is a spider member, he's just doomed his team, unless he has a plan.

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:36 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:30 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:20 AM, said:

*cough cough*
My role didn't specify I couldn't kill certain characters, by the way. It simply said I can kill one person during the night. So, while I took the codex thing at face value, I don't know if its true or not.

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Also, that's some smooth symping, Rashan. I would have missed it, if not for the BIG NEON SIGN SCREAMING SYMP SYMP PROTECTING LEADER.

Oh he isn't my leader. Believe me. After reading his reveal I did find it curious that you of all people didn't come to the same conclusion that I did. Why would a finder reveal on day 2? He wouldn't but a nonroled would. So it was a brilliant move on his part. That you have revealed your self to be a killer means that we should get rid of you first. If someone took out Liosan then someone else will probably take out Kaschan if not then we can lynch him tomorrow. But you are a self proclaimed VIG (Bullshit) more likely a killer who is trying to hide behind a vig. Well I have seen that show before to and don't buy it any more then I buy Kashcans finder reveal.

That's an excellent tactic, but I've seen it before, in fact, used by Kaschan in a previous game. "We'll lynch him if he survives tonight." If he does, there will be enough new info from other CFs for you to conveniently manipulate people into forgetting the case on Kaschan. I revealed as vig, and as I said, if I was killer, I'd have ignored Kasch today and killed him in the night. Think about this logically; Kaschan being roleless and revealing as finder wouldn't be enough to convince me to reveal as a vig unless he really did have some help in the night, and I thought, and still think, the odds of him being a Leader are good enough to reveal that I used my one kill and push for his lynch.

I am thinking about it logically. You tried to kill someone who wasn't a leader and if I let you live you will try to kill my leader. That is a chance that I don't want to take. Most people will be suspicious enough of Kaschan to either kill him tonight or lynch him tomorrow. Right now I see a person who has admitted to being a killer and there is no way that you should live to night to get a shot at my leader.

I will try to kill your leader? I have a 3/16 shot at getting another leader, and they all have or had BPs, even if I have a vig left, and that would make killing one highly unlikely. Also if there were a lot of killers, this game would be broken. You have one hell of a flaw in your argument right there. You should have abandoned Kaschan while you had the chance; he is your leader, but killing me won't save him. Hell, killing me won't affect anything, I'm nothing but roleless now.

[Rashan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:44 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:39 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Also, that's some smooth symping, Rashan. I would have missed it, if not for the BIG NEON SIGN SCREAMING SYMP SYMP PROTECTING LEADER.

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:30 AM, said:

Kaschan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:29 PM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

*cough cough*It simply said I can kill one person during the night.

so you can kill every night, nice of you to finally admit it

Also, I like how you are attacking me to draw attention away from Rashan.

Floundering all over the place now aren't you. First I am symping kaschan then kaschan is symping me. After someone else comes on and makes a smart post will they also be a symp or leader. Keep flailing around the quick sand will only suck you down that much faster.

Flailing? I haven't flailed or even been slightly worried. My reveal helped my team, and even if I die, someone else will hopefully have the sense to vig Kaschan. And now that you've stepped up to the plate, once Kaschan's CF comes through, you'll also look like fresh meat. I've traded my vig and my life for a definate kill of Kaschan, who is probably a power role, the death of Liosan was also a byproduct (he wasn't on my team), and potentially your own death, and I don't think you are on my team (the odds are good that you aren't). I've taken out three birds with one self-sacrifice. Gives my team quite an advantage.

So now your trying to say that this whole thing has been a plan of yours all along. Hmmm don't buy it now you accidentally revealed and have been playing damage control. You have been pressing the vig angle to try to stay alive till the night so that you can get another shot at someone.

[Rashan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

I will try to kill your leader? I have a 3/16 shot at getting another leader, and they all have or had BPs, even if I have a vig left, and that would make killing one highly unlikely. Also if there were a lot of killers, this game would be broken. You have one hell of a flaw in your argument right there. You should have abandoned Kaschan while you had the chance; he is your leader, but killing me won't save him. Hell, killing me won't affect anything, I'm nothing but roleless now.

Of course your saying that your nothing but roleless now. What else are you going to say? That you are a killer. Even if my leader still has his vig I don't want you to live to take it away tonight. Neither should anyone else.

[Mockra]

Rashan, on Jul 8 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

I will try to kill your leader? I have a 3/16 shot at getting another leader, and they all have or had BPs, even if I have a vig left, and that would make killing one highly unlikely. Also if there were a lot of killers, this game would be broken. You have one hell of a flaw in your argument right there. You should have abandoned Kaschan while you had the chance; he is your leader, but killing me won't save him. Hell, killing me won't affect anything, I'm nothing but roleless now.

Of course your saying that your nothing but roleless now. What else are you going to say? That you are a killer. Even if my leader still has his vig I don't want you to live to take it away tonight. Neither should anyone else.

That's interesting....

[Korlat]

If I stay alive tonight, the odds are good that I will be vigged or guarded anyway. You are pushing for something that is inevitable, so why do it? The death of Kaschan, however, is not inevitable. If he's left alive, he will become a serious danger. Not like he isn't already, being able to find out faction and role. He could easily find your leader tonight and post it in the morning. Even if I targetted your leader, he still has a good chance of having a BP and thus I wouldn't be able to kill him. Damage control would be trying to kill the guy who could definatly reveal your leader to every other faction, as opposed to the guy who might still be able to target your leader but is likely to be killed or guarded anyway so can't trust his action again, even if he had one, which he doesn't.
So, are you really saying that I haven't thought about this, or are you just trying to save Kaschan's ass?

[Korlat]

Mockra, on Jul 7 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 8 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

I will try to kill your leader? I have a 3/16 shot at getting another leader, and they all have or had BPs, even if I have a vig left, and that would make killing one highly unlikely. Also if there were a lot of killers, this game would be broken. You have one hell of a flaw in your argument right there. You should have abandoned Kaschan while you had the chance; he is your leader, but killing me won't save him. Hell, killing me won't affect anything, I'm nothing but roleless now.

Of course your saying that your nothing but roleless now. What else are you going to say? That you are a killer. Even if my leader still has his vig I don't want you to live to take it away tonight. Neither should anyone else.

That's interesting....

OH, SNAP! Well, well, well.

[Rashan]

Mockra, on Jul 7 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 8 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

I will try to kill your leader? I have a 3/16 shot at getting another leader, and they all have or had BPs, even if I have a vig left, and that would make killing one highly unlikely. Also if there were a lot of killers, this game would be broken. You have one hell of a flaw in your argument right there. You should have abandoned Kaschan while you had the chance; he is your leader, but killing me won't save him. Hell, killing me won't affect anything, I'm nothing but roleless now.

Of course your saying that your nothing but roleless now. What else are you going to say? That you are a killer. Even if my leader still has his vig I don't want you to live to take it away tonight. Neither should anyone else.

That's interesting....

slip of the doohhh. It should have been BP. Oh well.

[Korlat]

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:55 PM, said:

Mockra, on Jul 7 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 8 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

I will try to kill your leader? I have a 3/16 shot at getting another leader, and they all have or had BPs, even if I have a vig left, and that would make killing one highly unlikely. Also if there were a lot of killers, this game would be broken. You have one hell of a flaw in your argument right there. You should have abandoned Kaschan while you had the chance; he is your leader, but killing me won't save him. Hell, killing me won't affect anything, I'm nothing but roleless now.

Of course your saying that your nothing but roleless now. What else are you going to say? That you are a killer. Even if my leader still has his vig I don't want you to live to take it away tonight. Neither should anyone else.

That's interesting....

slip of the doohhh. It should have been BP. Oh well.

Damage control

[Kaschan]

@korlat - your own argument is flawed, if i am the spider and roland was hp, then my faction would have to defend me as without me they have lost. they cant aboandon sinking ship as you say, as it would have already sunk and they would be going down with it regardless. so saying they abandoned me is stupid and contrary to your assertion that i am a leader. unless you are going to claim the camorr started with only three players?

[Rashan]

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:55 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 7 2009, 06:55 PM, said:

Mockra, on Jul 7 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jul 8 2009, 02:52 AM, said:

Korlat, on Jul 7 2009, 10:49 AM, said:

I will try to kill your leader? I have a 3/16 shot at getting another leader, and they all have or had BPs, even if I have a vig left, and that would make killing one highly unlikely. Also if there were a lot of killers, this game would be broken. You have one hell of a flaw in your argument right there. You should have abandoned Kaschan while you had the chance; he is your leader, but killing me won't save him. Hell, killing me won't affect anything, I'm nothing but roleless now.

Of course your saying that your nothing but roleless now. What else are you going to say? That you are a killer. Even if my leader still has his vig I don't want you to live to take it away tonight. Neither should anyone else.

That's interesting....

slip of the doohhh. It should have been BP. Oh well.

Damage control

You of course know all about that. DON'T YOU.