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The Old Man in the Epilogue Who was he?
#1
Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:21 PM
I've scanned and searched the RG forum for this for about 30 minutes without finding an answer so I'll make a new thread.
Who helped Seren lift the stone in the epilogue. The hints basically are: he's old, he has mason's hands, he's just spoken to the Errant.
At first I thought it was Bugg, but then "mason's hands?"
Who has access to and knows who/where the Errant is? None apart from Bugg as far as I can surmise, unless I'm blind to the obvious here.
On a side not I just finished the book and it left me confused and emotionally in turmoils as usual with SE's books.
1. Trull - tragic, pointless, random and I saw it coming a mile away. Not how and when, but certainly that it would happen.
2. The other major deaths - Beak; very moving. Redmask; unsurprising and a relief. Toc the Younger; I don't see the point of his storyline at all, but sucks that he died.
3. Karsa - where's he off to now?
4. Quick Ben just keeps getting more and more powerful.
Now it's off to read RotCG and TtH before DoD and the KB/Bauch trilogy arrives in my mailbox in September.
Who helped Seren lift the stone in the epilogue. The hints basically are: he's old, he has mason's hands, he's just spoken to the Errant.
At first I thought it was Bugg, but then "mason's hands?"
Who has access to and knows who/where the Errant is? None apart from Bugg as far as I can surmise, unless I'm blind to the obvious here.
On a side not I just finished the book and it left me confused and emotionally in turmoils as usual with SE's books.
1. Trull - tragic, pointless, random and I saw it coming a mile away. Not how and when, but certainly that it would happen.
2. The other major deaths - Beak; very moving. Redmask; unsurprising and a relief. Toc the Younger; I don't see the point of his storyline at all, but sucks that he died.
3. Karsa - where's he off to now?
4. Quick Ben just keeps getting more and more powerful.
Now it's off to read RotCG and TtH before DoD and the KB/Bauch trilogy arrives in my mailbox in September.
#2
Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:23 PM
Bugg/Mael.
Edit: @Apt: Snicker.
Edit: @Apt: Snicker.
This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 02 July 2009 - 09:25 PM
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
#3
Posted 02 July 2009 - 09:24 PM
It is Bugg. Remember he was working as a construction worker part time in the Eternal Domicile.
Also notice the description of his fingers actually sinking into the stone. He's super humanly strong.
Also notice the description of his fingers actually sinking into the stone. He's super humanly strong.
#4
Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:22 PM
Aptorian, on Jul 2 2009, 11:24 PM, said:
It is Bugg. Remember he was working as a construction worker part time in the Eternal Domicile.
Also notice the description of his fingers actually sinking into the stone. He's super humanly strong.
Also notice the description of his fingers actually sinking into the stone. He's super humanly strong.
I thought as much, but didn't really think he'd worked construction himself. I imagined him more as the brains of the operation together with Tehol, or should I say Emperor Tehol

#5
Posted 02 July 2009 - 10:24 PM
Go back and read the physical descriptions of Bugg, and then the physical description of the guy at the end of Reaper's Gale. Also, who else had a MASSIVE grudge against the Errant at that time, other than Bugg?
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
#6
Posted 06 July 2009 - 04:41 PM
Eispeis, on Jul 2 2009, 04:21 PM, said:
Toc the Younger; I don't see the point of his storyline at all, but sucks that he died. Again.
Fixed.
"Here is light. You will say that it is not a living entity, but you miss the point that it is more, not less. Without occupying space, it fills the universe. It nourishes everything, yet itself feeds upon destruction. We claim to control it, but does it not perhaps cultivate us as a source of food? May it not be that all wood grows so that it can be set ablaze, and that men and women are born to kindle fires?"
―Gene Wolfe, The Citadel of the Autarch
―Gene Wolfe, The Citadel of the Autarch
#7
Posted 07 July 2009 - 09:16 AM
Thanks
This is going on a tangent of the OP, but since I'm OP I'll allow it...
Toc Anaster's storyline comes at the end of events which are only reffered to and that we don't see. I assume that what happened between his elevation to Togg and Fancypants' MS in MOI and the Awl/Redmask/Toc storyline in RG is that Toc and the "new" Grey Swords traveled from Coral to the Eastern part of the Letherii continent, allied with the Awl and were summarily betrayed by the Awl and slaughtered by the Letherii. I don't see the point of relaying these events in RG at all except maybe in order to kill Toc off again, but then he could have had a half page description from Toc's POW as he was slaughtered along with the rest of the Grey Swords during the Awl betrayal.
Maybe it will become clearer as I read on? (only at RotCG now with TtH following).

This is going on a tangent of the OP, but since I'm OP I'll allow it...
Toc Anaster's storyline comes at the end of events which are only reffered to and that we don't see. I assume that what happened between his elevation to Togg and Fancypants' MS in MOI and the Awl/Redmask/Toc storyline in RG is that Toc and the "new" Grey Swords traveled from Coral to the Eastern part of the Letherii continent, allied with the Awl and were summarily betrayed by the Awl and slaughtered by the Letherii. I don't see the point of relaying these events in RG at all except maybe in order to kill Toc off again, but then he could have had a half page description from Toc's POW as he was slaughtered along with the rest of the Grey Swords during the Awl betrayal.
Maybe it will become clearer as I read on? (only at RotCG now with TtH following).
This post has been edited by Eispeis: 07 July 2009 - 09:18 AM
#9
Posted 09 July 2009 - 07:25 AM
It must be Mael/Bugg. He is the one of the few architects/builders/masons who appear in the books
And only one of two, who I'd imagine to confront the Errant, the other one being
And only one of two, who I'd imagine to confront the Errant, the other one being
Spoiler
This post has been edited by Imperial High Mage Tayschrenn: 09 July 2009 - 07:26 AM
...Every tale is a gift,
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.
-Fisher-
Don't be blind,
Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,
Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven
-T.D. Mengerink-
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.
-Fisher-
Don't be blind,
Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,
Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven
-T.D. Mengerink-
#11
Posted 09 July 2009 - 11:47 AM
I didn't say that.
The Old Man has to have two things
- Have something to do with building
-Have considerable power to force the Errant in doing things
I said he is one of the two ascendants of which I know they had anything to do with masonry, I also said it couldn't be him, since he was elsewhere, where the sun doesn't shine, in a commanding position.
The Old Man has to have two things
- Have something to do with building
-Have considerable power to force the Errant in doing things
I said he is one of the two ascendants of which I know they had anything to do with masonry, I also said it couldn't be him, since he was elsewhere, where the sun doesn't shine, in a commanding position.
...Every tale is a gift,
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.
-Fisher-
Don't be blind,
Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,
Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven
-T.D. Mengerink-
And the scars bourne by us both,
are easily missed,
In the distance between us.
-Fisher-
Don't be blind,
Mind,
To be kind,
For you will find,
Kindness has its own rewards,
and each must find his way to heaven
-T.D. Mengerink-
#12
Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:15 AM
It was Bugg. Period. We'll have to call him Bugg because, really, trying to say it reversed sounds plain ridiculous.
If there were no smart people others wouldn't feel inadequate.
Right?
Right?
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