[Tattersail_]

H.D., on 07 October 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

Roldom, on 06 October 2010 - 06:40 PM, said:

just reading GoTM and saw this conv between mammot and crokus

'Ah.' Mammot glanced at his desk, raising an eyebrow at Moby, who had opened an inkwell and was drinking from it. 'The history of Darujhistan,' he said. 'I am just beginning the fifth volume, which opens with the reign of Ektalm, second to last of the Tyrant Kings.'
Crokus blinked. 'Who?'
Smiling, Marnmot sipped his tea. 'Usurper of Letastte and succeeded by his daughter, Sandenay, who brought on the Rising Time and with it the end of the age of tyrants.'

not much info but maybe gives us the tyrants name, also has the tyrant defintly been called a he and not a she?

This points to the lineage of Tyrant Kings/Queens. Note the words, "end of the age of tyrants," and not "end of the age of the Tyrant." We have other proof for the lineage of the Tyrant Kings outside of this, including coinage if I remember correctly. If I had to guess, this is simply a line of delineation, and does not point towards what empowered the original and important Tyrant or who could/would possibly be the new Tyrant.

This is a good catch, the fact that Darujhistan had an age of Tyrants at all is cool as it was built after Raest wasn't it. This does hint at the return of the Tyrant. Everyone thinks it is one person they are talking about but what if it is a position? The Tyrant Kings, plural would suggest that a lot of powerful people once ruled Darujhistan, one after the other until their was none left. The return may be either a descendant of one of these tyrant kings or just the return of this position within Darujhistan. Imagine it was Kruppe. He is powerful enough to combat the Cabal imo. The only reason we don't think this is because of his friendship with his comrades and his good nature.

I may have rambled a little but Mammot talking to Crokus does seem a good indication of what was and what is to come. We always get snippets from SE and ICE of what is to come.

[D'iversify]

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

This is a good catch, the fact that Darujhistan had an age of Tyrants at all is cool as it was built after Raest wasn't it. This does hint at the return of the Tyrant. Everyone thinks it is one person they are talking about but what if it is a position?

It is a card in local variants of the Deck, so it's possible that it could the Unaligned equivalent of an unoccupied Hold.

[Tattersail_]

D, on 07 October 2010 - 12:18 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

This is a good catch, the fact that Darujhistan had an age of Tyrants at all is cool as it was built after Raest wasn't it. This does hint at the return of the Tyrant. Everyone thinks it is one person they are talking about but what if it is a position?

It is a card in local variants of the Deck, so it's possible that it could the Unaligned equivalent of an unoccupied Hold.

well can you attribute that to what Mammot was talking about?

[D'iversify]

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 12:23 PM, said:

D, on 07 October 2010 - 12:18 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

This is a good catch, the fact that Darujhistan had an age of Tyrants at all is cool as it was built after Raest wasn't it. This does hint at the return of the Tyrant. Everyone thinks it is one person they are talking about but what if it is a position?

It is a card in local variants of the Deck, so it's possible that it could the Unaligned equivalent of an unoccupied Hold.

well can you attribute that to what Mammot was talking about?

Not sure admittedly, but thought I might as well throw the idea out there.

[Tattersail_]

D, on 07 October 2010 - 12:25 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 12:23 PM, said:

D, on 07 October 2010 - 12:18 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

This is a good catch, the fact that Darujhistan had an age of Tyrants at all is cool as it was built after Raest wasn't it. This does hint at the return of the Tyrant. Everyone thinks it is one person they are talking about but what if it is a position?

It is a card in local variants of the Deck, so it's possible that it could the Unaligned equivalent of an unoccupied Hold.

well can you attribute that to what Mammot was talking about?

Not sure admittedly, but thought I might as well throw the idea out there.

cool no worries, it's always great to have new theories and insights into things, i like your idea, although the card should already exist for this to have happened before..

[D'iversify]

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 12:56 PM, said:

D, on 07 October 2010 - 12:25 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 12:23 PM, said:

D, on 07 October 2010 - 12:18 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 07 October 2010 - 09:37 AM, said:

This is a good catch, the fact that Darujhistan had an age of Tyrants at all is cool as it was built after Raest wasn't it. This does hint at the return of the Tyrant. Everyone thinks it is one person they are talking about but what if it is a position?

It is a card in local variants of the Deck, so it's possible that it could the Unaligned equivalent of an unoccupied Hold.

well can you attribute that to what Mammot was talking about?

Not sure admittedly, but thought I might as well throw the idea out there.

cool no worries, it's always great to have new theories and insights into things, i like your idea, although the card should already exist for this to have happened before..

I can't recall where or who it was in TtH, but there's a Deck of Dragons Talent native to Darujhistan who uses two non-canon cards, The Tyrant and The City, as part of her set, and they prove important in the divination she makes. So perhaps the Tyrant is not quite a Hold, but rather a local annex of power, with Holdlike qualities, with great influence over the region.

[The Seguleh 46th]

H.D., on 07 October 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

Roldom, on 06 October 2010 - 06:40 PM, said:

just reading GoTM and saw this conv between mammot and crokus

'Ah.' Mammot glanced at his desk, raising an eyebrow at Moby, who had opened an inkwell and was drinking from it. 'The history of Darujhistan,' he said. 'I am just beginning the fifth volume, which opens with the reign of Ektalm, second to last of the Tyrant Kings.'
Crokus blinked. 'Who?'
Smiling, Marnmot sipped his tea. 'Usurper of Letastte and succeeded by his daughter, Sandenay, who brought on the Rising Time and with it the end of the age of tyrants.'

not much info but maybe gives us the tyrants name, also has the tyrant defintly been called a he and not a she?

This points to the lineage of Tyrant Kings/Queens. Note the words, "end of the age of tyrants," and not "end of the age of the Tyrant." We have other proof for the lineage of the Tyrant Kings outside of this, including coinage if I remember correctly. If I had to guess, this is simply a line of delineation, and does not point towards what empowered the original and important Tyrant or who could/would possibly be the new Tyrant.

Beat me to it H.D! Basically everything you said, ditto!

[Tattersail_]

The Seguleh 46th, on 07 October 2010 - 11:56 PM, said:

H.D., on 07 October 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

Roldom, on 06 October 2010 - 06:40 PM, said:

just reading GoTM and saw this conv between mammot and crokus

'Ah.' Mammot glanced at his desk, raising an eyebrow at Moby, who had opened an inkwell and was drinking from it. 'The history of Darujhistan,' he said. 'I am just beginning the fifth volume, which opens with the reign of Ektalm, second to last of the Tyrant Kings.'
Crokus blinked. 'Who?'
Smiling, Marnmot sipped his tea. 'Usurper of Letastte and succeeded by his daughter, Sandenay, who brought on the Rising Time and with it the end of the age of tyrants.'

not much info but maybe gives us the tyrants name, also has the tyrant defintly been called a he and not a she?

This points to the lineage of Tyrant Kings/Queens. Note the words, "end of the age of tyrants," and not "end of the age of the Tyrant." We have other proof for the lineage of the Tyrant Kings outside of this, including coinage if I remember correctly. If I had to guess, this is simply a line of delineation, and does not point towards what empowered the original and important Tyrant or who could/would possibly be the new Tyrant.

Beat me to it H.D! Basically everything you said, ditto!

In "the age of Tyrants" there would only ever be one Tyrant ruling at a time. There would not be two or three Tyrants.. so the age of Tyrants coming to an end would refer to many tyrants that have ruled in the past.

If this age of tyrants would come again, it would only be one Tyrant returning, maybe another after him/her/it. So it is plausable that Mammot's information is a clue to what is to come.

[excession]

... Kallor. Who else? He's almost always got some throne or another under his bony behind. And he's a swordsman of NOTE! Good enough, possibly, to lead the Seguleh.
Also, elsewhere people have theorised that the Seguleh have something to do with Sechul Lath, an Elder God who wasn't concerned with Kallor's Empire (the one now in the Imperial Warren), and possibly willing to grant Kallor patronage... after all, he's the God of Misfortune, and it would be very unfortunate for Darujistan to be ruled by Kallor!

[Mcflury]

excession, on 18 October 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

Good enough, possibly, to lead the Seguleh.

Didn't Whiskeyjack almost beat him though? I mean, if it wasn't for that bad leg, as I read that scene, I really thought Whiskeyjack stood a big chance...

I'm not denying Kallor is a great swordsman. I'm just saying... don't underestimate the Seguleh...

[Tattersail_]

Mcflury, on 18 October 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:

excession, on 18 October 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

Good enough, possibly, to lead the Seguleh.

Didn't Whiskeyjack almost beat him though? I mean, if it wasn't for that bad leg, as I read that scene, I really thought Whiskeyjack stood a big chance...

I'm not denying Kallor is a great swordsman. I'm just saying... don't underestimate the Seguleh...

I think a few people could beat Kallor but he is cursed to live forever by the Elder Gods isn't he?

[HoosierDaddy]

Tattersail, on 18 October 2010 - 08:59 AM, said:

Mcflury, on 18 October 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:

excession, on 18 October 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

Good enough, possibly, to lead the Seguleh.

Didn't Whiskeyjack almost beat him though? I mean, if it wasn't for that bad leg, as I read that scene, I really thought Whiskeyjack stood a big chance...

I'm not denying Kallor is a great swordsman. I'm just saying... don't underestimate the Seguleh...

I think a few people could beat Kallor but he is cursed to live forever by the Elder Gods isn't he?

This is one of the more random aside arguments in the series. Read RotCG and you'll realize that the fight mentioned is not as it seems.

Kallor is not the Tyrant. He was looking for a throne in Darujhistan. He's cursed to not ascend. The power of the Tyrant almost necessitates ascension in usage.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Mcflury, on 18 October 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:

Didn't Whiskeyjack almost beat him though? I mean, if it wasn't for that bad leg, as I read that scene, I really thought Whiskeyjack stood a big chance...

If Whiskeyjack had actually stood a chance, I think Spinnock would have cut Kallor to little pieces. As it is, Spinnock knew that he never had a chance against Kallor, which would tell me that Whiskeyjack's chances were next to nothing -- he may have been a great soldier and commander but when it comes to swordsmanship, I don't know that he was any better than any other regular soldier.

This post has been edited by Green Pig: 18 October 2010 - 09:12 AM

[Tattersail_]

H.D., on 18 October 2010 - 09:05 AM, said:

Tattersail, on 18 October 2010 - 08:59 AM, said:

Mcflury, on 18 October 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:

excession, on 18 October 2010 - 07:56 AM, said:

Good enough, possibly, to lead the Seguleh.

Didn't Whiskeyjack almost beat him though? I mean, if it wasn't for that bad leg, as I read that scene, I really thought Whiskeyjack stood a big chance...

I'm not denying Kallor is a great swordsman. I'm just saying... don't underestimate the Seguleh...

I think a few people could beat Kallor but he is cursed to live forever by the Elder Gods isn't he?

This is one of the more random aside arguments in the series. Read RotCG and you'll realize that the fight mentioned is not as it seems.

Kallor is not the Tyrant. He was looking for a throne in Darujhistan. He's cursed to not ascend. The power of the Tyrant almost necessitates ascension in usage.

I don't think for one minute Kallor is the Tyrant. Imo the Tyrant has to have magical skills as well as good swordsman skills, I don't think we know who the Tyrant is yet to be honest, I don't think we have seen him in the series so far

Green Pig, on 18 October 2010 - 09:11 AM, said:

Mcflury, on 18 October 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:

Didn't Whiskeyjack almost beat him though? I mean, if it wasn't for that bad leg, as I read that scene, I really thought Whiskeyjack stood a big chance...

If Whiskeyjack had actually stood a chance, I think Spinnock would have cut Kallor to little pieces. As it is, Spinnock knew that he never had a chance against Kallor, which would tell me that Whiskeyjack's chances were next to nothing -- he may have been a great soldier and commander but when it comes to swordsmanship, I don't know that he was any better than any other regular soldier.

you do know this, you do, because it states in one of the books, and I am sure it is early on so I don't think I have to spoiler it but I will just in case,

Spoiler

Whiskeyjack could spar with Dassem very well and it was always close.

Spoiler

Dassem kicked Kallors ass in Rotcg

[HoosierDaddy]

@Tattersail:

ROTCG Spoilers:

Spoiler

Whiskeyjack could hang with Dassem, most certainly. The problem being, that if Whiskeyjack's knee not failed, his sword would have gone through sand just like Dassem's did in Return of the Crimson Guard. It's much harder to kill the High King than it was thought.

[Jade-Green Pig-Hog Swine-Beast]

Hmm...you have me there. An easy thing to overlook -- perhaps I'm wrong then. We never really saw Whiskeyjack fight though, at least not one on one, so I was probably making assumptions based on who else we've seen fight (with Kallor or someone his equal) where there skill seems so awesomely...awesome and we never got to see WJ fight like that.

[Tattersail_]

H.D., on 18 October 2010 - 09:48 AM, said:

@Tattersail:

ROTCG Spoilers:

Spoiler

Whiskeyjack could hang with Dassem, most certainly. The problem being, that if Whiskeyjack's knee not failed, his sword would have gone through sand just like Dassem's did in Return of the Crimson Guard. It's much harder to kill the High King than it was thought.

Spoiler

he had to flee though didn't he?

in terms of Kallor and the curse. This again is not a spoiler because it came from early books, but some of this may contain spoilers

Spoiler

he cursed the three elder gods didn't he. Each one of these curses came true, however draconus has escaped dragnipur, k'rul is now remembered after being forgotten and sister of cold nights is in Silverfox so has been reborn so to speak. If these curses can be reversed then there will be a way to kill Kallor. He cannot ascend we know this, so how about a Brys versus Rhulad scenario? Kallor will survive but be crippled so badly he wouldn't be a threat...

This post has been edited by Tattersail: 18 October 2010 - 10:12 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Tattersail, on 18 October 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

H.D., on 18 October 2010 - 09:48 AM, said:

@Tattersail:

ROTCG Spoilers:

Spoiler

Whiskeyjack could hang with Dassem, most certainly. The problem being, that if Whiskeyjack's knee not failed, his sword would have gone through sand just like Dassem's did in Return of the Crimson Guard. It's much harder to kill the High King than it was thought.

Spoiler

he had to flee though didn't he?

in terms of Kallor and the curse. This again is not a spoiler because it came from early books, but some of this may contain spoilers

Spoiler

he cursed the three elder gods didn't he. Each one of these curses came true, however draconus has escaped dragnipur, k'rul is now remembered after being forgotten and sister of cold nights is in Silverfox so has been reborn so to speak. If these curses can be reversed then there will be a way to kill Kallor. He cannot ascend we know this, so how about a Brys versus Rhulad scenario? Kallor will survive but be crippled so badly he wouldn't be a threat...

Spoiler

I''ll buy him being non-cursed midway through DoD, when Draconus reappears and is no longer contained. But, isn't he able ascend now that all the curses are broken? Both curses being broken by time seems.... Erikson like. That's a pet of mine. His ascension is one of the few "new Tyrant" theories I can imagine. Lol. Considering my latest posts in the Tyrant thread. Kallor is a great character.

This post has been edited by H.D.: 18 October 2010 - 10:21 AM

[Tattersail_]

H.D., on 18 October 2010 - 10:20 AM, said:

Tattersail, on 18 October 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

H.D., on 18 October 2010 - 09:48 AM, said:

@Tattersail:

ROTCG Spoilers:

Spoiler

Whiskeyjack could hang with Dassem, most certainly. The problem being, that if Whiskeyjack's knee not failed, his sword would have gone through sand just like Dassem's did in Return of the Crimson Guard. It's much harder to kill the High King than it was thought.

Spoiler

he had to flee though didn't he?

in terms of Kallor and the curse. This again is not a spoiler because it came from early books, but some of this may contain spoilers

Spoiler

he cursed the three elder gods didn't he. Each one of these curses came true, however draconus has escaped dragnipur, k'rul is now remembered after being forgotten and sister of cold nights is in Silverfox so has been reborn so to speak. If these curses can be reversed then there will be a way to kill Kallor. He cannot ascend we know this, so how about a Brys versus Rhulad scenario? Kallor will survive but be crippled so badly he wouldn't be a threat...

Spoiler

I''ll buy him being non-cursed midway through DoD, when Draconus reappears and is no longer contained. But, isn't he able ascend now that all the curses are broken? Both curses being broken by time seems.... Erikson like. That's a pet of mine. His ascension is one of the few "new Tyrant" theories I can imagine. Lol. Considering my latest posts in the Tyrant thread. Kallor is a great character.

Kallor has not already ruled Darujhistan in the past though has he? it is a return of the Tyrant isn't it?

[MTS]

It's a pretty safe bet that Kallor has not ruled Darujhistan, since there was a line of tyrannical kings, the last of whom I think we know as the Tyrant. Kallor's father was loooooooong dead before Darujhistan even existed. There has been mention of Kallor ruling more than one empire, but even if he was the first it would be unlikely, since he killed all of his wives and children to rule out any challengers to his throne.