[Bauchelain the Evil]

Okay I've read it and I wil point out only two things.

Quote

The obvious required only an instant’s scrutiny to discern.

I think this is a rather clumsy sentence, an example of the flowery prose that yelloow pointed out. I would suggest to make it simpler like this " It required only an istant's scrutiny to discern the obvious"

The other thing is that you make us know too roughly that Redin is Syr. I think that simply changing the name in Syr at mid chapter is symply confusing. In fact I understood what was going on only when he met Stephen.

[Sixty]

Oh, if I did it was a slip.

I've been doing rewrites (therefore confusing myself) and you aren't supposed to know that yet.

This post has been edited by Sixty: 19 June 2009 - 06:35 PM

[Yellow]

Sixty, I don't think you sent me your chapter one.

[Sixty]

Just sent it. Must've missed it.

[Fist Gamet]

I have emailed my response to the prologue. Will read the other work shortly

G

[Sixty]

Hey guys,
For some reason my internet access here works fine for everything EXCEPT google. China's messed up like that. I'll generally be able to ninja in an hour or so in the morning before I head out, so if any of you have sent it to me via email, can you send it to me via PM?
(Or in this thread, either way works)

Thanks.

edit:
Gamet, I managed to read yours via a proxy. Thanks for the comments; I don't agree with all your comments but I'll think about them.

Also, there's a lot more dialogue in the rest of the book--part 2 of the prologue is pretty much to:
A.) inform the reader that the Debellan Empire has made a failed attempt at suppressing Connault's rebellion
B.) Syr, one of Derrick's generals, betrays him

It does feel like a little bit of an infodump though, so I'm considering revising it.

This post has been edited by Sixty: 25 June 2009 - 01:09 AM

[Yellow]

I'll make a start on your first chapter tonight... and will try and finish it tomorrow, but then I'm off on my stag do so I probably won't be taking it with me

[Fist Gamet]

RESPONSE TO CHAPTER ONE


I enjoyed that. Compared to the prologue I thought that was much better. The dialogue remains strong and believable, although the characters feel a bit flat at the moment. I think building real depth into a character remains the most difficult thing to do in writing, and it’s a hard thing to define. I get a little sense of Yanish, and what he is like, but beyond the grizzled, world-weary veteran soldier there isn’t much. His old friend talks of his ‘endless enthusiasm’ but that doesn’t sit with the rest of it…

it felt like a thousand leagues
mostly just wished he was dead
If they lasted that long

That’s pretty depressing stuff. I get the feeling that he is a kind of father figure and he feels a duty towards the younger soldiers to keep their spirits up. Fair enough. If this is so, might it be that he is struggling to maintain a well-practised front for them? Would he let that guard down when he leaves the tent? Would he keep it up in when he meets his old friend, or might be reveal his fears?

Pir is an old soldier, grown tired and wise in his years, become a General. He has a sense of humour though. I haven’t really gotten anything else about him.

If they are not main characters then I suppose it doesn’t matter too much, but I wonder if there is any benefit in making these parts longer, or maybe you return to them soon.

I realise this all comes from my own belief that stories should be character-driven and that the characters are the most important element of the story (some don’t, with the entire Star Wars series being the prime example of using characters to fit into and tell a story, as opposed to the story of the characters)

Immediately after Chakta’s demise, when I am curious about who the Three Proxies are, you tell me more about them. I see this in two ways. Firstly, it works by giving me immediate payback for my curiosity, but on the other hand, you might consider keeping this little revelation until later on. I think a couple more scenes or references to the mystery of the proxies, and also some reference to the Delanok (just so I have some idea if they are good or bad or whatever) before this scene would give the revelation greater impact. Yes, we want mystery followed by a payout, but not right away, imo.

In all, I was impressed and my comments are minor issues. It was actually hard to find fault as I thought the story was going to be interesting enough to keep me reading. I wonder what kind of story you are writing, though? Is this an epic, high-fantasy, multi-POV tale of wars scorching across continents? Or are we heading into small-group, quest-driven territory?

[Yellow]

Wrong thread I'll post this in the other one...

[Sixty]

Haha I wondered what the Yanish part was about.

[Yellow]

Sorry, sixty, didn't manage to finish reading your chapter yet (about half way through). Will post comments on Sunday/Monday.

[Fist Gamet]

Goddamit!!!


The whole time I was reading it, I kept thinking that it was so different from the prologue that I almost wrote "...this reads as though it was written by someone else..."
AND I WAS RIGHT!!! I am a halfwit! I got the download mixed up and I actually thought this was Sixty's work!!!

FFS Gamet!!!



PS Did you email me chapter one?

PPS I would be very interested to know what you didn't agree with. Not looking to be picky but I know you are a stickler for grammar, like me and I am always looking for fresh ideas to ponder upon.

This post has been edited by Fist Gamet: 26 June 2009 - 09:07 PM

[Sixty]

Ah, the things I didn't agree upon were mostly the suggestions when you felt things were a little excessive. For example...

The rare guard’s thoughts drifted more toward sleep than vigilance. The sporadic drunkard staggered past, oblivious. Yet a prince sought refuge in the night.

I considered rewriting it as something along the lines of "A nearby guard" but I decided I preferred it the way it is. Sort of like to suggest that the few people you'd normally expect out at that time of night--a drunkard or a guard--were effectively asleep/indolent. Whereas out of all of them, a prince is active.

edit: And I'm fairly sure I did email it to you, although I can re-send an updated version if you like.

This post has been edited by Sixty: 27 June 2009 - 02:59 PM

[Yellow]

Some comments on chapter one.

Firstly, I've already talked about the flowery prose so I won't continue to do that... except to say that it's in abundance here as before I think you should concentrate on that if you do another rewrite on this. I guess the things I liked (good eye for balance and structure of prose) and disliked (flowery choice of words when something similar would do just as well) from the prologue will run throughout the book, going from this chapter. I don't want to keep repeating myself so I'll concentrate on the flow of the story.

The ending of this first chapter hits the right kind of note - someone tries to assassinate the emperor, so we're talking big impact, plot-wise. I think you've made a good choice there and it helps to set the scene.

I would say though that the first part of the chapter (conversation with Redin and Leo) felt a little bewildering. I'm not entirely sure why this is, but it felt to me like the start of a Shakespeare play. A lot of talking, with a lot of information thrown in. I had to read this first half twice (after finishing the rest of the chapter) before I was entirely sure what they were talking about.

Maybe this is just me, so see what the others think. Leo and Redin actually talk about a lot of stuff that sets the scene for the book. Where the assassination attempt succeeded at this I think is because it was action, rather than explanation. There was too much information for me to digest in the first section, especially with the convoluted choice of descriptors (sorry for mentioning the flowery prose again ).

Having said that, I'm not sure what I would have you do to remedy that for me - maybe if the conversation scene was later on, or something, I would be more able to know what was going on! Like I say, that might just be me rather than a problem with the scene.

Another thing that may just be my personal preferences was the way you use Redin's POV. Sometimes you're right up in his face, and I'm feeling what he's feeling. Other times (generally when you're describing a room for example), you back right off from him. Things "could be seen" or "could be scented" rather than telling me what Redin is actually seeing or smelling. I would prefer to know what Redin is smelling! You don't always do this, though, so I'm wondering if it's intentional or not.

I liked the use of the Raat in this chapter. We're starting to learn what the hell it is, how it's used, what the implications of using it are, all those kind of things. I only got a flavour of it in the prologue so I'm glad it was more centre-stage here. Keep it coming!

This post has been edited by Yellow: 29 June 2009 - 08:53 AM

[Sixty]

Alright, thanks for the comments.

I've sent the full sixth draft to a few RL friends of mine (a little too paranoid to do that over the net, sorry >.<) and am awaiting comments on them to start my seventh draft.

Right now my priorities are:
-Remove flowery prose (sometimes I learn a new word and feel an urge to find some way to include it in that day's writing lol)
-Clean up clutter (such as the "could be scented" stuff)
-Rewrite my infodumps to be less infodump-y and more coherent (like the convo you mentioned).

Most people who've read the first chapter don't like the convo, so I think I'll find some way to either rewrite it or spread it out more.

Thanks again. I'll probably clean up the second chapter and send it out later this week.


edit: also, it's technically the Raetor (the prophet/messiah/dictator) who has the assassination attempt.

This post has been edited by Sixty: 29 June 2009 - 11:08 AM

[Yellow]

I'll look forward to reading it

[Sixty]

I think I'm going to change the part of the convo where Redin muses about the Emperor's plan and move it to the second chapter--cut it off by having the messenger enter when Leo just mentions the invasion force, then have Redin discuss it with Stephen himself in the next chapter.

edit:
also, for the mini-synopsis (for a query letter when the times comes, which will hopefully arrive lol):

me said:

In the wake of a monumental decree by the emperor, a new nation has revolted and repelled initial retaliation. Two years later, a hidden sect comprised of the few despised users of magic have made a failed assassination attempt upon the rebellion's messianic leader. Convinced different motives and a different target lay behind the assassination, a long-dormant killer has chosen to begin anew by murdering the very same messiah. The emperor has assembled another army to crush the rebellion, and a crusade mounts in response. But as the fervor escalates, the messiah's replacement approaches apostasy...and the sect executes its own century-old plots.

What do you guys think?

This post has been edited by Sixty: 29 June 2009 - 12:17 PM

[Fist Gamet]

I have read and put together thoughts on Chapter 2 but I never did receive Chapter 1. I would rather have this and read it as it may change some of my comments on Chapter 2.

Email me, please!

[Yellow]

Sixty, on Jun 29 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

In the wake of a monumental decree by the emperor, a new nation has revolted and repelled initial retaliation. Two years later, a hidden sect comprised of the few despised users of magic have made a failed assassination attempt upon the rebellion's messianic leader. Convinced different motives and a different target lay behind the assassination, a long-dormant killer has chosen to begin anew by murdering the very same messiah. The emperor has assembled another army to crush the rebellion, and a crusade mounts in response. But as the fervor escalates, the messiah's replacement approaches apostasy...and the sect executes its own century-old plots.

The story itself sounds interesting, but I think the synopsis is a little confusing. Try and be more specific if you can. Instead of always referring to "the messiah" or "the messiah's replacement", it might be useful to put some names in there. I know that you want to keep it short, but it's better to be specific, if you ask me.

Most agents would be perfectly happy with two or three paragraphs in the query, especially for epic fantasy, which is notoriously full of numerous sub-plots.

[Sixty]

I had names in there, but some of the query-letter strategy posts or whatnot suggested I avoid putting names in.

Gamet, I'll re-email you chapter 1.