[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 15 hours and 22 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Ampelas, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galain, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Kaschan, Korlat, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Silanah, Thyrllan

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night

3 votes for Mockra: ( Silanah, Emurlahn, Karatallid )
6 votes for Rashan: ( Galain, Kaschan, Omtose, Barghast, Mockra, Thyrllan )

Players not voted: Ampelas, D'riss, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Korlat, Liosan, Meanas, Rashan

[Rashan]

Karatallid, on Jun 24 2009, 12:05 PM, said:

Galain, on Jun 24 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

Mockra has suddenly accumulated three votes. I would not at all be surprised if two of them were infected... I'll have more on this in a few minutes. Mockra's behavior is definitely suspicious, but it's not nearly as suspicious as Rashan's overall behavior.

Like I said earlier, we're going to go insane if every time someone switches mobs, or stays on the same mob all day, or votes for someone at the start of the day, or votes for someone at the end of the day, they are accused of being infected.

And if you find Mockra's behavious suspicious, why do you think the people voting for him are likely to be infected, rather than voting for him because they find him suspicious?

Also, did you see the brief discussion earlier about whether the DG would be likely to compulse anyone today? We concluded probably not. Do you disagree?

Galain, on Jun 24 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

@Rashan, I actually saw the exact same thing about Karat and was wondering why he was symping me. Yes, he says it's about the OMGUS vote but why go out of his way to say my name each time? And you're also right, I do not need help defending myself.

What?

Firstly, in what way am I symping you? You say yourself that you don't need help, you've never been in any danger, why would I bother?

Secondly, What exactly do you mean by "why go out of his way to say my name each time?"? Obviously, I said your name to point out the event I was talking about. In what way is this going out of my way? And how else should I have phrased it? "I have a problem with Rashan's OMGUS vote on a certain player, whose name begins with G and has 6 letters"? This is one of the stupidest accusations i've seen in mafia, and i've seen some really stupid ones.

Thirdly, "he says it's about the OMGUS vote"? It is about the OMGUS vote! I don't see how I could be clearer. Do you find OMGUS votes suspicious, or not? If so, I don't see why you have a problem with it. If not, why not?

I think someone doth protest too much of ones innocence. What possible reason would you have to comment on an OMGUS vote on someone other than yourself? Twice? Are you trying to make Galain look like a killer and that you are his symp to help hide the true killer? I was thinking about voting for you on what Emurlain put forth but now with this reaction to what wasn't even an accusation I most definately think I'll send a vote your way

Vote karatallid

[Ampelas]

At this point, I believe Mockra's switcharoo attitude more suspicious than Rashan.

Rashan is accused (from what I get, and as a gross summary) of playing to catch attention, hoping that it will keep him alive by WIFOM. I missed last game where it seemed to have worked, but I also saw it before in other games. So possible.

Mockra's attitude, on the other hand, seemed to be someone trying to jump away from attention faster than Vengeance rushing to buy the Dust of Dreams, and that I don't like.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 24 June 2009 - 05:20 PM
Reason for edit: Edited for Grammer

[Rashan]

Ampelas, on Jun 24 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

Rashan, do you ignore me on purpose?

Call me dumb, but I think we're entitled to a clarification. And if you made one, I missed it, so call me colonel dumbass and repeat it.

I won't spend the game asking people if they are infected, but in this case you started it.

Not ignoring you I'm just trying to catch up on a few things as I go.

[Hood's Path]

@ Rashan

You come across ambiguously, it likes some of the stuff you say comes off as scummy, but it so scummy that you could do a full circle, like the vote for night, in my experience first time players ask in which circumstances do vote for night work in town's favour not out of the bat vote for it. Now a first time player might think it might be wise not to lynch night one as it saves one person who most likely will be inno.

But I don't think you're that new to the game, I believe you may have one or two games under your belt, if that the case then if you're scum you would want to increase your chances, night does that for you. But a person newly into scum generally don't have the confidence to wade into the limelight.

If you're just a townie who had a stumble then fair enough but comments like how you want to have fun at everyone expense, the biggest group right now is town, that statement says you're going to be playing a in a manner that will be possible detrimental to town make you a viable target, as a person who plays very badly as townie can be more dangerous than scum.

Also there was a post that could be taken as a hint you are infected or was it just a joke post, I mean these posts don't help other players how they should react to you. Yeah they can't guess if you're inno or scum, but due to that you're an unknown and unknowns from my experience can mean potential trouble.

[Thyrllan]

Rashan, on Jun 24 2009, 06:20 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on Jun 24 2009, 11:14 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on Jun 24 2009, 05:06 PM, said:

@thyr - you say that like its a crime someone voted for mockra? i mean seriously there was a rush of votes on one player yet discussion led to three other votes and we are the bad folk trying to create another fener situation. talk about scaremongering, you should be in politics.

maybe i am in politics?

trhe thing is that what mockra has - contradicting hmself - rashan has done far more and worsly so i dont see why to vote mockra if rashan is doing it even worse (and flailing more frantically to try and get out of it too)

Please reference these contradictions that you are accusing me of? If you can't reference them then don't accuse me of them.

how about saying you would instantly reveal if you were infected, and then trying to hint that you were without openly saying it? or maybe seriously proposing to vote night, then trying to back up the decision in serousness when it got some critique, and then later dismissing it as if it werent serious after all. originally you hammered tellann because it was a case of "him or you" and you didnt want to be lynched, but now you say you did it cause it was inevitabley going to be him?

[Rashan]

Looks like I'm finally caught up. I've got to step away and get some work done. I'll check back in a few.

[Galain]

Okay, I'd like to present the following 'case' (although it's not to lynch, because I still am going with Rashan for that). Broken into two posts because of forum limitations (and I removed some smileys, too).

I believe Silanah was the first person infected and here's why (relevant information is underlined in quotes):


His first post is fairly harmless with a minor comment about the cult. Nothing overt, just subtle.

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 03:22 AM, said:

Hmmm.... I am thinking that the infected are going to be rather interesting this game, but is it just me or does the DP and infected sound like a rather spastic cult?

Also, love the new alt (Eloth not me), its so pretty!

As for distribution, well we were promised lots of death. So I am thinking the scum have more symps than killers and that we probably have a fair few number of vigs floating around.

And everyone knows how the vigs love to shoot their load on the first night around these parts

Edit: would you believe it, a crosspost!!!!

In his next post, he berates Meanas for a blatantly naive comment about the setup (if you read around this post I actually vote Meanas at the time for being so obviously dense):

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 09:27 AM, said:

Meanas, on Jun 22 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

Serc, on Jun 22 2009, 12:19 PM, said:

Meanas, on Jun 22 2009, 09:12 AM, said:

Thyrllan, on Jun 22 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

or like maaan we could like. get the killer guys and then jus keep votin night until we all get infectioud and we all win with the doopelgangbanger man.

mmmmmm, this mushroom peoples are greaaaat on the fire bro

Hey I like your outside of the box thinking. But I think it would be unwise on account of us all getting modkilled for ruining the game.

Makes me think Thyrllan is the first infected. It's probably not against the rules since, the DG in all likely-hood would just synapse everyone the night before his win. I'm most suspicious of the people that are pointing away from the cult like Eloth and the people that are putting into our heads the thoughts that infected are going to die alot. The strongest power is clearly complusion, DG controlling a voting block is going to get dangerous quick as the numbers dwindle.

Oh, you think someone is infected already? It's possible I suppose.

Err.... it says someone randoms starts off infected....
Which means you have probably not read the opening posts properly

Here, he's the first person to correct Hood's Path on whether the first person was already infected or the DG had to infect someone specific the fight night (note how he expands on the response by saying that the DG can't infect as a day action):

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 09:40 AM, said:

Hood's Path, on Jun 22 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

"Before the begining of day 1, the mods draw a random alt to be infected. The DG will be told which alt is his first victim."

That what it says in the post by the mod, the DG will be told which alt is his first victim suggest the way I read it that the DG has to infect the person randomly picked.

How do you guys read that?

I read it as that person starts off infected and that the DG knows who it is. Otherwise it makes no sense, unless you are trying to imply that the DG can infect as a day action.

Sil offers a response to Omtose who says Scum may be more likely to claim infection than town (which I do not necessarily agree with, because the scum can kill and potentially become the DG's symp). Also, the response is kind of non sequitur because the question is about scum speaking up if infected and Sil responds about scum speaking up if NOT infected.)

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

Omtose, on Jun 22 2009, 07:02 PM, said:

Am I reading people right? There seems to be an assumption that only the townn will be infected. Scum can be infected as well, so we have to be very careful not to PI someone just because they claim infection, even if we believe the claim to be genuine. In fact scum would be more inclined to claim infection wouldn't they? Because that way they can distract Duncan and any possible healer...or am I getting it arsewards again?


Edit: Cross post

Yeah except, the DG knows who is infected, so people claiming infected, will be giving themselves away to him.

Here, Sil says exactly what I said before about killers not likely revealing infection.

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Omtose, on Jun 22 2009, 07:11 PM, said:

No, I didn't mean false claims, I meant scum could be genuinely infected and be glad to announce it, they get a double bonus. Heal/disinfection and stop Duncan 'protecting' a genuine inno.


Edit: This was @ Sil.

Yeah, except by the same token the DG could then go and overload his synapses:

'Path-Shaper' said:

The order of night actions:
Guard -> Heal -> Synapse overload (not affected by guard) ->Infect -> Find -> Desinfect -> Kill

So I would think that should a scum become infected they will either try and take out Duncan and become the DG's Symp or try to take out the DGs to cure themselves.

[Karatallid]

Rashan, on Jun 24 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

What possible reason would you have to comment on an OMGUS vote on someone other than yourself? Twice?

Because it's suspicious behaviour? That's what we do in mafia, we look for suspicious behaviour and point it out.

Edit for clarity.

This post has been edited by Karatallid: 24 June 2009 - 04:48 PM

[Galain]

Here's one of the biggest RED ARROW posts to me (enlarged for emphasis). It looks to me like Sil is gauging whether or not he thinks he can reveal infection and get a heal as a way to stop getting blown up.

Silanah, on Jun 22 2009, 10:41 AM, said:

Omtose, on Jun 22 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

@Lio ~ of course I realise they are separate teams, but I admit I was getting confused about Duncan's role - duh. My main point was more about a healer and that we not PI anyone just because they are/claim infection. There seemed to be an assumption that only the town would be affected. I am not arguing that infected shouldn't speak up, just that we need to be careful...also if an infected does die after claiming being infected, doesn't that mean we probably haven't got a healer and that wouldn't be good to let scum know - would it?


Edit: cross posts

Are you assuming that the healer protects against synapse overload?

He then goes on to post a fair amount about the day's cases.

Later, we have his initial 'disgust' reaction to Mockra (Mockra had some earlier confusion about the DG being able to use all or one of his abilities at night, when the scene clearly states he can use them all):

Silanah, on Jun 23 2009, 05:36 AM, said:

Mockra, on Jun 23 2009, 02:30 PM, said:

Checking in, won't be back before the deadline I do not believe... ill leave my vote where it is.

Well thats convenient, but if you are still around, have you gotten to grips with the mechanics yet?

Because from what I see you keep not understanding the information we have been given.

Sil is NOT the first person to vote for someone other than Rashan. Ampelas vote Korlat for weak participation and then Emurlahn votes Karatallid for a weak 'I agree' style case against Karatallid's train vote (Emur later switches to Mockra, too). Instead, Sil is the first person to say Rashan is a 'nuisance' but not drop a vote elsewhere, quickly.

Amp and Emur both claim possible easy scum/infected trains on Rashan, which is certainly legitimate, and both follow it up quickly with a vote elsewhere (amp votes in 6 minutes, Emur in 7 minutes), whereas Sil takes a while to get to a vote (1.5 hours) and he ends up voting for the guy he chided on Day 1 (Mockra).

Silanah, on Jun 24 2009, 12:27 AM, said:

Sorry for my absence.

I see we have had a pile on of votes on Rash as well as very self-pitying defence by Rash and that never goes down well around here, on the other hand I don't see him as a threat, only a nuisance. So if it comes down to needing a lynch, I would vote there, even though it makes it feel like we are going to then end up with a 2nd day 1

As for the theory it might be infected piling up, I would like to point out that atm we have only 2 infected and the DG WCS and that the compulsion only says they have to be voting that person at the end of the day. Its a bit early in the day to jump there, unless as Galain has said, people are playing with their noob caps on.

@Rashan, voting night on day 1, is a waste of time literally, because it makes the scum's lives easier.

More joking about scenarios with killers/infected... maybe some self-deprecating humor in here.

Silanah, on Jun 24 2009, 12:43 AM, said:

Emurlahn, on Jun 24 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

Silanah, on Jun 24 2009, 08:27 AM, said:

Sorry for my absence.

I see we have had a pile on of votes on Rash as well as very self-pitying defence by Rash and that never goes down well around here, on the other hand I don't see him as a threat, only a nuisance. So if it comes down to needing a lynch, I would vote there, even though it makes it feel like we are going to then end up with a 2nd day 1

As for the theory it might be infected piling up, I would like to point out that atm we have only 2 infected and the DG WCS and that the compulsion only says they have to be voting that person at the end of the day. Its a bit early in the day to jump there, unless as Galain has said, people are playing with their noob caps on.

@Rashan, voting night on day 1, is a waste of time literally, because it makes the scum's lives easier.

true.

i would also like to point out to any speed lynchers that it might not be in our best interest to try and purposefully catch the infected out. The chances that the DG hit a killer with infection are just as low as the chances that we lynch one so do not be so quick to hope we end day without them voting as we would be greatly benefitting the killers by shrinking the player pool. Also the infected will return to normal if we can get dg and dg2 so if we can discover who they are we can either heal them or keep them in check.

It would be very funny if a symp where to become infected I wonder how long morgy's game mechanics would stand up to that scenario.

Or what happens if one of the killers gets infected and then by chance the killers hit duncan?

Finally drops the vote on Mockra for a post Mockra had much earlier (earlier even than when Sil made the post I quoted two spots up):

Silanah, on Jun 24 2009, 01:06 AM, said:

Mockra, on Jun 24 2009, 04:30 AM, said:

Wow 5 votes on Rashan already... Im all for the Rashan lynch but im not placing a vote right now as it would be at l-4 in just a few hours...
@Kaschan, Yeah Korlat hasn't said much but you should always give the benefit of the doubt on the first day..

So in other words a cop out, you want to go for the easiest target?
And tbh I have looked over your posts and besides misunderstanding the mechanics, you have agreed with someone else's case and you have given no reasons why you would vote for Rashan.

:avote: Mockra

His final post so far is a response to Gamelon's idea of co-ordinating vote removals before a lynch... I get the impression he is wondering about his own survival here.

Silanah, on Jun 24 2009, 01:18 AM, said:

Gamelon, on Jun 24 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

I think hte DG would NOT bother putting in a compulsion today. There is too much risk of exposing his recruits.
But if he DID it would probably have been on rashan as he would have been the obvious lynch for today.

So if we do not lynch rashan...i suggest EVERYONE removes there vote form him.

In fact i have a better idea.
If someone is about to get lynched everyone has to remove there votes from all other players before the hammer gets dropped.
This might stop the DG from using his compulsion as his recruits cant then remove votes or they will die.


edit - added "NOT"

You are of course assuming that we will all have to be on at the exact time, just before the hammer is dropped. You are aware of this right?

Edit: Being nice: Other than that one tiny flaw, your idea is a good one.

[Galain]

So basically, I think Sil was infected first, was fishing for information about possibly revealing and then decided not to (note he's absent from most of the discussion on whether it would actually benefit the infected the most about revealing). He could be a killer since it was done 'randomly' and he wants to possibly kill Duncan or the DG, but I'm less convinced of that because he came out and said that on thread.

I also think the DG saw his earlier disgust with Mockra and compelled him and the new recruit to vote Mockra today because it would seem less suspicious in light of Mockra's weird behavior.

If I'm right, I think it was a bad idea for the DG to push Mockra over Rashan, or anybody, really, unless the DG is someone already under a lot of heat (like Rashan) and wants to make sure his recruits don't lynch him today under penalty of death.

Thoughts or ideas?

[Thyrllan]

well youv certainly put a lot of time into this case!

it seems plausible to me, maybe even a bit likely, but im not outright convinced by it. do you suppose Sil is being compelled to vote mockra then? mabe we should issue him a ultimatum: "switch your vote and keep it off mockra or we're lynching you tomorrow" kinda thing and that would reveal him as inf or not *if* hes compelled...

[Galain]

Thyrllan, on Jun 24 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

well youv certainly put a lot of time into this case!

it seems plausible to me, maybe even a bit likely, but im not outright convinced by it. do you suppose Sil is being compelled to vote mockra then? mabe we should issue him a ultimatum: "switch your vote and keep it off mockra or we're lynching you tomorrow" kinda thing and that would reveal him as inf or not *if* hes compelled...

... yeah I originally was putting a few minutes into it but wow that took like 30 minutes (had to step away from PC for about 30 mins, too).

[Hood's Path]

It possible, what about The DG trying to split the vote, so as to allow Rashan live longer, you know keep him as a possible scrapegoat?

[Ampelas]

Galain, I think you case works as well if you propose that Silanah is the DG, not the first infected

edit: the parts where you say he's inquiring about his own survival/situation could be the DG enquiring about his infected

This post has been edited by Ampelas: 24 June 2009 - 04:58 PM

[Galain]

@ Thyr if I get Xposted

I'm not really convinced by it simply because it requires WIFOM (DG noob or smart?) about the DG watching his first recruit's actions to make a determination. The ONLY reasons to use Compulsion this early are 1) To try and avoid getting lynched yourself if you think you might be in danger; 2) To get votes on yourself for an unreasonable case to make yourself less likely to be attacked by killers in the night (yes you have the BP but why lose it so early); 3) To test if one of your recruits failed and is Duncan.

However, it's enough that caught my eye that I definitely think Sil should fess up if he's infected.

[Hood's Path]

If Silanah is DG, then are you assuming that the other two on mockra's back are his infected?

[Galain]

@ HP, that's another good point, but I'm not sure the DG would risk losing his own recruits so early just to keep a scapegoat around.

@ Amp, Not sure I understand how the case works better with Sil as the DG can you clarify?
edit: Reason is what HP just said, no way the DG exposes himself and votes the same as his recruits on a target who had zero votes.

This post has been edited by Galain: 24 June 2009 - 05:02 PM

[Ampelas]

Hood's Path, on Jun 24 2009, 06:59 PM, said:

If Silanah is DG, then are you assuming that the other two on mockra's back are his infected?

I'm in the crowd who doesn't believe there would be compulsion so early. Unless Rashan is the DG, nobody had extreme reasons to fear a lynch today.

I advanced the theory first, but it was more a musing than a serious argument. Plus I saw what others said about this and I agree.

[Ampelas]

Galain, on Jun 24 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

@ Amp, Not sure I understand how the case works better with Sil as the DG can you clarify?

Not better, I said "as well". Which means that if it's right, we have 50% chances of him being DG IMO.