[Freakinbat]

Isnt Ryllandaras Released from Heng after being trapped their since Kellanved trapped him?
and if this is the case why is he out roaming in Deadhouse Gates on the path of hands?

i might well be wrong but im recall Mappo and Icarium being told he is around!

[Aptorian]

Its a puzzle of information. There's another new type of D'ivers we meet in RCG, Ho (ho ho ho) the human d'ivers. He made D'ivers of himself and they trapped him on O-island.

It is our assumption that Ryl did a similar trick. Where other D'ivers of power have often succombed to madness or been driven feral, the Ryl we know from 7C seemed to have mastered his powers and esceped the trap of madness. It is the forum theory that Ryl took his madness, the insanity and wild bloodlust and infused it all into one of his bodies and then severed himself for it. That is Rylandaras that roamed Quon Tali and had been trapped beneath Li Heng.

[drinksinbars]

it clearly states int he book that he was divers and soultaken. i think he is just greedy

[Captain Beardface]

Aptorian, a question.

Is there another thread somewhere that this discussion took place?

I just start a reread of the series and when I got to the part when Rylandaras showed up as a D'ivers in Deadhouse Gates, I got confused. Because he's supposed to be Treach's brother therefor a Soletaken.

[Dolorous Menhir]

This is a point where this book appears to flat out disagree with the main series. We see Ryllandaras directly, twice, in Deadhouse Gates and House of Chains. He is free. The only way around it, that I can think of, is that the Ryllandaras freed from captivity in the course of RotCG is a single iteration of the D'ivers, and when we have seen Ryllandaras elsewhere he has been "incomplete".

I don't particularly like that explanation (it doesn't really work - if all but one "copy" was still free, why did the people consider themselves safe from him prior to the events of this book?). But it's the only way I can see to reconcile the two.

Some information on Ryllandaras can be found here in the Wiki. This has not been updated with the events of RotCG.

This post has been edited by Dolorous Menhir: 19 July 2009 - 12:49 PM

[Thelomen Toblerone]

I'd like to know how the rest of him got to 7C. How do you sneak on a boat if you're wolves/jackals? Or, rather, as 7C was the site of the First Empire and so likely where Ryllandaras spice-scent-ified, how did a lone enormous blood crazed wolf persuade people to give it passage to Quon? And why?

[Jorram]

For example by killing everybody on a ship and driving it to Quon? ;p
Actually I believe the "split" of Ryllandaras, if we accept the theory, occurred on Quon.

Also, Soletaken/D'ivers means you are a SHAPESHIFTER, after all. He can turn human anytime he wants to.
The Ryl on Quon doesnt because he's all mad, and the one on 7C doesnt because he likes to roam in his jackal form, but doesnt mean they CAN'T, if they wanted to.

[The Dark Wanderer]

In relation to comparing with Ho, there's an interesting little passage with the Wickan witch while lonely Ho (that sounds bad) is still stuck in the ottarel mine where she says something along the lines of 'I've never seen you angry, what have you done with your temper?' suggesting it'spossible to determine which bits of you get what traints.

[Agraba]

So the theory is that Ryllandaras in RotCG is a D'ivers-Soletaken, and the one in DG and HoC is a D'ivers-D'ivers? As in you can do a compound D'ivers-Soletaken-ness thing?

"ness" is my favourite suffix.

[ISTN4249]

I think the current consensus (maybe) is that, like Ho from ROTCG, Ryllandaras veered into divers form and somehow separated the feral/crazy/bloodlusty portion of himself in quon while the other parts roamed free on 7C

that or his kellanved was only able to capture one part of ryll while the more cunning and less bloodcrazy aspects snuck off

or it could just be an error

[HoosierDaddy]

In MoI, Treach specifically states that Ryllandaras had gone farther than all of them, in mastering the gifts: BOTH soletaken and d'ivers. Therefore, if we put 1 + 1 together, Quon Tali Ryllandaras is the soletaken aspect of Ryllandaras (who Ryl put all his madness into) while moving away to 7 Cities Ryllandars. He is both "white jackal" and "ay'tog" according to Treach. The White Jackal makes sense as RotCG Ryllandaras while DG Ryllanadars makes sense as ay'tog, yes?

[Beliar]

I'd have to agree with HD on this one. it makes the most sence and also has some form of verification from SE's books rather than just being a complete deviation on ICE's part.

[switch]

I thought it was just the extreme age of Ryllandaras that meant he was in many places, as all of these ancient soletaken/divers were of the first empire, also am i mistaken but i seem to remember that at least with Trake he had been in his animal form so long he had forgotten how to veer back, would this be the same with Ryllandras.

[Ulrik]

Worst scenario is that SE and ICE forgot Ryllandaras was used and ICE pulled name from fluff roster to have "BIG BAD ANCIENT BOY"... and we, fanatic fans are looking to solutions in possibilities of world:)

[The Crow]

While it is only somewhat related to the whole "Ryllandaras" deal, I'd like to share with you all that my previous view of D'ivers/Soletaken has changed. What I'm about to suggest may ofc be wrong, but what we saw in ROTCC speaks in favor of it.

Previous:

D'ivers: Shapeshifting, multiple animals.
Soletaken: Shapeshifting, singular being. (While D'ivers was previously only shown to be animals, Soletaken is proven beyond all doubts to be able to shift into other things as well, namely dragons).

New:

D'ivers: Soul splitting, multiple beings (not only animals), NOT shapeshifting.
Soletaken: Same as previous.

The whole "D'ivers=not shapeshifting" kinda comes from the passage that HD mentioned, where Treach says that Ryllandaras had mastered the gifts of BOTH D'ivers and Soletaken, which kinda implies that they are indeed different.

In essence, I think that the entire D'ivers thing refers to the act of splitting yourself into several independent bodies, that may or may not act together.

[HoosierDaddy]

Interesting theory. But, what would you think that a D'ivers then, who lost most of his bodies, would his soul then be lesser or would the original body recover those shards? The truth is, a d'ivers grows stronger and thus gains more bodies, but that has to do with power rather than say spirit. Strange distinction I might be drawing there. You could very well be right, but it's my opinion that D'ivers are an unnatural side affect of the Ritual gone mad, and that Soletaken are the natural form.

Hothalar.... might take away from that theory though, seeing as how he's a human d'ivers. Hmmm. Complicated stuff.

[Sinisdar Toste]

but then there still has to be an aspect of soletakeness to it, cause they veer into bloodflies and denrhabi and rats, thats still shapeshifting. i think that when madness takes the soletaken it then fractures into multiple forms, perhaps depending on traits. ryllandaras could have somehow left his crazy behind in the soletaken jackal while the rest of his personality and "being" fucked off as a bunch of other jackals. all the perks with none of the drawbacks.

edit: perks such as the growing in number HD mentioned and appearing as different kinds of animals.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 09 August 2009 - 09:34 PM

[The Crow]

HoosierDaddy, on Aug 9 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

But, what would you think that a D'ivers then, who lost most of his bodies, would his soul then be lesser or would the original body recover those shards? The truth is, a d'ivers grows stronger and thus gains more bodies, but that has to do with power rather than say spirit.

Hm, I guess "Soul-Copying" would be more appropriate than "Soul-splitting" then, since it indeed seems that they dont lose any part of themself should one piece die. It seems more like a sort of hivemind existence, but as we have seen not all D'ivers are that (so far the exceptions would be Ho (although his 3 copies seems Hiveminded) and Ryllandaras the Li-Heng edition).

[D'rek]

But here's the kicker - D'ivers can reform back to a single shape, as evinced by Gryllen veering between a single human and thousands of rats. Also the same with The Pack, when Bugg goes to visit it the shape splits from 1 into 6. Point is, sane d'ivers are not stuck in many forms so that would mean the soul is constantly splitting and reforming, which isn't necessarily impossible but still leaves a big difference between Ho, Ryl and the rest of the d'ivers.

Also note that the first of the dhenrabi d'ivers in DG was not working in tandem with its 3 other forms so again we have a d'ivers that has different parts seperated and doing different things.

[Karnadas]

I recently finished ROTCG and I was pretty damn sure that the whole "there are other parts of Ryllandaras all over the place" was alluded to later on in the book. I doubt, therefore, that it's an author error...

Presumably, the differences in Ho's D'ivers stem from the fact that he's a human D'ivers. It is presumably easier to fill say, a rat, with a working, complete copy of a soul (or however repartitioned the soul is) than it is a human vessel - which already has the capacity to accept a sentient being... (not sure that made sense, please pardon the sleep-deprivation... )