[HoosierDaddy]

Abyss, on Jun 1 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on May 31 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

Lol. Sheer chaos in this thread:

HHD positions throughout the series:

Pre-GotM:
Knight of High House Death - Dassem Ultor, Hood's Mortal Sword and First Sword of the Malazan Empire

Has Dessem ever been stated as 'Mortal Sword'? because while the Grey Swords were using it, that's otherwise a dated term for the (almost, sometimes) same thing and i believe Dassem has only ever been called 'Knight' and possibly 'Champion'.

Quote

MoI:

Herald - Gethol, brother of Gothos, released from his position after scarring by Brukhalion, now Herald of High House of Chains
Knight of Death - Baudin, guardian of the Mhybe prior to the ritual
Magi - Possibly Kalamandas

Favourite crazy theory - Hood pulled a fast one on Quick Ben and while Quick thought it was Tala', it was actually QB himself who became Magi.

Evidence - Bottle's comment in TB that QB stinks of Hood, but Tala is nowhere around.

Was this before or after the Jade Stones strike, when Quick Ben is hanging out at Hood's Gate and overhears the conversation between Ganoes and Hood?

Anyways, I forget, but I was just reading about it the other day. The exact wording was, along the lines of "Hood's Knight, and his Mortal Sword in all but word..." So, it could be argued either way, actually.

Quote

Quote

The Bonehunters:

Soldier - The Seguleh Second

Toll the Hounds:

King - Hood
Soldier - Baudin
Knight - Seguleh Second

Why the Seguleh Second only became Knight in TtH is strange as and his service has been presumably much longer than either Baudin or Dassem. Dassem was the Knight presumably while the Second was still Solider.

It may be that there is a variance in the amount of power invested in the position. When the Seg2nd was running around trying to satisafy his man crush on Skinner, he had a minimal amount of Hoodpower while Baudin, who was acting on Hood's behalf to awaken the Beast warren, needed to channel WAY more, thus, 'Knight'. Cut to the big finish in Dranipur and now Hood needs Seg2nd to go fight Hounds, hence, powerup to 'Knight" and Baudin, in whatever job Hood had for him (i'm betting it was to kill any surviving beings chained in Dragnipur) became 'Soldier'.

That... is an interesting theory. I dig it.

HD - Because imitation is the sincerest form of effrontery of new Admins!

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 02 June 2009 - 04:44 AM

[MTS]

HoosierDaddy, on Jun 2 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

Abyss, on Jun 1 2009, 10:35 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on May 31 2009, 09:30 PM, said:

Lol. Sheer chaos in this thread:

HHD positions throughout the series:

Pre-GotM:
Knight of High House Death - Dassem Ultor, Hood's Mortal Sword and First Sword of the Malazan Empire

Has Dessem ever been stated as 'Mortal Sword'? because while the Grey Swords were using it, that's otherwise a dated term for the (almost, sometimes) same thing and i believe Dassem has only ever been called 'Knight' and possibly 'Champion'.

Quote

MoI:

Herald - Gethol, brother of Gothos, released from his position after scarring by Brukhalion, now Herald of High House of Chains
Knight of Death - Baudin, guardian of the Mhybe prior to the ritual
Magi - Possibly Kalamandas

Favourite crazy theory - Hood pulled a fast one on Quick Ben and while Quick thought it was Tala', it was actually QB himself who became Magi.

Evidence - Bottle's comment in TB that QB stinks of Hood, but Tala is nowhere around.

Was this before or after the Jade Stones strike, when Quick Ben is hanging out at Hood's Gate and overhears the conversation between Ganoes and Hood?

Anyways, I forget, but I was just reading about it the other day. The exact wording was, along the lines of "Hood's Knight, and his Mortal Sword in all but word..." So, it could be argued either way, actually.

That's before, I'm fairly sure. The Jade Statues didn't fall until HoC, iirc.

I've always likened Mortal Sword/Destriant/Shield Anvil to variants of the current Deck positions. So in HHL for instance, Champion=MS, Priest=Destriant and SA=Soldier or Builder. I'm probably wrong though. It fits the "Hood's Knight, his Mortal Sword in all but name..." bit, though.

[HoosierDaddy]

Bah, I obviously didn't organize that well. The part about Dassem is for the first quote, about his being Mortal Sword and Knight pre-GotM.

The second quote is about Quick while he's aboard the flagship with Tavore and Kalam, before he gets whisked away by Shadowthrone to go fight Icarium. That is the Jade falling I am referring to occurred.

[MTS]

Ah, well when QB and Kalam meet up with Apsalar she says "you have the aura of Hood about you, Quick Ben", and that's before the Jade Statues fall.

[HoosierDaddy]

Huh, so both Apsalar and Bottle say something about it? Fun.

This is what selective re-readings get you! Lol, I just randomly pick u one of the books turn to a page and start reading. God, I love MbotF.

[MTS]

Yeah, I do that as well on occasion. It's the only series I can keep re-reading (I've probably read MoI around 14 or 15 times...).

On topic though, I like the "Hoodpower" theory. Sounds logical.

[Hetan]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Jun 2 2009, 06:08 AM, said:

Ah, well when QB and Kalam meet up with Apsalar she says "you have the aura of Hood about you, Quick Ben", and that's before the Jade Statues fall.

That's because Talamandas is providing him with access to the warrens.

Joram said:

And I am still so non-convinced about the switch being deliberate (with all due respect to Hetan's info). SE might be great indeed, but it wouldnt be the first time he let stuff slip his mind.

It was brought to SE's attention by his advance readers and his reply was that positions within the Houses are always changing.

[MTS]

Hetan, on Jun 2 2009, 09:31 PM, said:

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Jun 2 2009, 06:08 AM, said:

Ah, well when QB and Kalam meet up with Apsalar she says "you have the aura of Hood about you, Quick Ben", and that's before the Jade Statues fall.

That's because Talamandas is providing him with access to the warrens.

Talamandas is still with him in BH?

[HegemonWiggin]

Thus far, we've mostly been considering that the "Head" of the house -- in this case, Hood -- assigns roles. However, the thing with Shadowthrone/Trull suggests this is not the case. Perhaps it's as simple as the titles are assigned by the actions people take, in the same way that the cards in the deck reflect actions rather than a House Head's decision.

So the Seguleh Second has the aspect of "Soldier" when he is acting like a Soldier, has the aspect of Knight when he is acting as the leader of Death's forces, etc. It may not be Hood's direct decision, but instead more organic/automatic. The Thordy/Gaz thing in TTH can be explained in the same way; they take on those roles, therefore they are referred to by them and likewise they would appear as such in readings of the Deck.

That said, it's clearly not entirely organic what with the whole Hood demoting Gethol thing.

[Aptorian]

I agree with Hegemon.

I think the selection and "temporary positions in flux" are an organic/automatic type of system and selection. The King/Queen/ruler(s) of the Houses are able to change these positions "manually" though.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 05 June 2009 - 09:38 PM

[HoosierDaddy]

HegemonWiggin, on Jun 5 2009, 05:26 PM, said:

Thus far, we've mostly been considering that the "Head" of the house -- in this case, Hood -- assigns roles. However, the thing with Shadowthrone/Trull suggests this is not the case. Perhaps it's as simple as the titles are assigned by the actions people take, in the same way that the cards in the deck reflect actions rather than a House Head's decision.

<snip>

I think that anything involving Shadow and Emurlahn is suspect:

1. Shadowthrone only controls the "Gatehouse"
2. Emurlahn is shattered, yet still somewhat functional. (MD & FL were able to choose Brys Beddict as Mortal Sword).

Therefore, Shadow/Emurlahn is kind of it's own thing... part of it is ruled, while part of it is obviously still somewhat independent, in flux.

Hood has complete mastery over his domain as compared to Ammanas.

[Urizen]

HoosierDaddy, on Jun 6 2009, 04:58 AM, said:

I think that anything involving Shadow and Emurlahn is suspect:

1. Shadowthrone only controls the "Gatehouse"

Seeing how ST at the end of TBH materializes on the actual Throne of Shadow, I'd say he's in charge of Shadow, not merely controling the "gatehouse".

HoosierDaddy, on Jun 6 2009, 04:58 AM, said:

2. Emurlahn is shattered, yet still somewhat functional. (MD & FL were able to choose Brys Beddict as Mortal Sword).

When was Brys chosen as Mortal Sword of Emurlahn?? I can't see it in RG. Sure Hannan Mosag is meddling around with Shadow and Chaos in RG, thinking he is the best thing since sliced bread but lets be honest here, the guy has no real clue about the world and the Powers around him...

[D'rek]

Urizen, on Jun 6 2009, 05:31 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Jun 6 2009, 04:58 AM, said:

I think that anything involving Shadow and Emurlahn is suspect:

1. Shadowthrone only controls the "Gatehouse"

Seeing how ST at the end of TBH materializes on the actual Throne of Shadow, I'd say he's in charge of Shadow, not merely controling the "gatehouse".

I'm just amazaed whenever someone still brings up this stupid gatehouse thing after reading 5 books past MoI. Paran is just wrong with that damn gatehouse crap, just as he's wrong about a bunch of other things in MoI. (example off the top of my head - he thinks the Edur body they find was killed by another Edur solely because of his gut instinct and QB implies that he's right because he's the MotD. In facto, Paran, the bloody MotD, couldn't sense that the Edur was killed by Mael, the goddamn Elder God of the freaking Seas. You'd think Paran could detect *that* with his newfound arbiter powers, but no, he's horribly wrong, just like he is with the stupid gatehouse crap.) After all, there are plenty of other fragments of Emurlahn floating around, it's not like each one has its own Throne and is just another gatehouse into the 17-entranced fortress of true Emurlahn.

Urizen, on Jun 6 2009, 05:31 AM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Jun 6 2009, 04:58 AM, said:

2. Emurlahn is shattered, yet still somewhat functional. (MD & FL were able to choose Brys Beddict as Mortal Sword).

When was Brys chosen as Mortal Sword of Emurlahn?? I can't see it in RG. Sure Hannan Mosag is meddling around with Shadow and Chaos in RG, thinking he is the best thing since sliced bread but lets be honest here, the guy has no real clue about the world and the Powers around him...

He isn't. Hannon Mosag wanted to make him MS of Scabandari/Emurlahn, but it didn't work. FW wanted him to be the MS of the Errant, that didn't work either. Now he is (was?) the Saviour of the Empty Throne, which probably means nothing.