[cjd262e]

I agree with you about reading the series in chronological order. I actually can't wait to do that! Some of you guys are too smart for your own good. I forget a lot of the side characters. For example, I remember reading about Iron Bars at some point, but several years, 8 SE books, and 3,000 characters later, I can't even remember how I know him. It will be great after TCG to start all over.

I thought ICE did great with Laseen. It was cool when Possom more or less said, "Of course she's a badass, she was the head of the Claw." I was thinking the same thing when he said it. Her cold/ruthless calculations seemed to be very much in line with how I've thought of her throughout Erikson's books.

However, I will say my biggest complaint in this book was not so much ruining SE's characters, but the character development as a whole. I can't tell you how many times I had to thumb back through the book to figure out who someone was. They would pop in for 5 paragraphs and then he would move on to another story line. It took me until about page 350 before I felt like I was in the groove. When I would get to Kyle and the Crimson Guard, I was releived because I could follow the story.

[Abyss]

Aptorian, on Jun 17 2009, 02:41 PM, said:

jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

I'd say that some characters he did well (mainly one's we'd never seen 'on screen' but had only heard of). In this list I'd put:

Blues

We didn't know blues to to start with, so I had no impression of him. I thought he was interesting, a little bit too much sorcerer and not enough kick ass warrior. But I liked the Jade Statue bit. Still, it didn't help him that he starred in the stupidest and least meaningful storyline of the book.

Agreed. we saw Blues for all of a page or so back in GotM. There was one throwaway ref to him in MT and that was it. So why not make him a mage and all, but even so, he didn't do much except hang around in the mines pretending to be myserious. And while i liked Ho and the wickan witch, the whole 'mages on otataral island' thing was lame. we already knew about the statues - seeing one more wasn't worth it.

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jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Dassem's Sword

I loved the part where the Wild Man and Temper met up. I was all, FUCK YEAH, THE SWORDIEST SWODSTERS! BROMANCE!

But I didn't think Temper was handled well at all. For some reason Esslemont changed the name to Temp and completely ignored Tempers role as Deadhouse guardian in NoK. Absolutely no clarification of Tempers status or if he still had any Azath juice running through him. I'm guessing he didn't otherwise he would have crushed Ryl.

Nope. Guardians aren't THAT powerful. Sure, Gothos is, but he's a Jaghut who froze death on an entire continent. All temper got from the deal was a power-up enough to not quite die fighting Jhenna (who, btw, killed two Guardians before him) in NoK. And he was away from the Azath, so who's to say the power-up was even still in effect.

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jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Coltaine

Pah. Coltaine was just a prop put in to make the fanboys scream.

I want to disagree with this but i can't. I would have preferred him being left where he was post DG with Temul's addendum in TB.

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jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Shimmer

I liked her. I liked the devils advocate role she played to the CGs intentions. I would have liked it if she had died.

I liked her. The Shimmer/Skinner name thing bugged me, but i liked her.

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jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Iron Bars

I think he was perfect. Basically, all of IBs scenes were pure awesome. While I thought it was poetic that Iron Bars and the crew went through all that and never arrived in time, I also thought it was yet another pointless story thread that went nowhere and added nothing to the books over all story.

Look for this to mean more in the big picture. I figure IB will ultimately be the one to take out Skinner.

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jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Others he did poorly:
Topper

Yet another character in a storyline that didn't really make any sense. I liked that he had apparently gone insane and that we got to see just why he was the Clawmaster. But as a character there was no resemblance with the Erikson Topper.

We hadn't seen much of Topper in the past, and spending almost a year in the IW would mess with anyone. I liked his storyline - it went to why Laseen was awesome that she would do without his support in the Claw to ensure Cowl was taken out AND deny the IW to the Glove.

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jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Laseen

I thought Lasseen was AWESOME. I believed all along that she was competent and had plans within plans, so I was delighted to see her having all that control and planning set up.

I strongly disliked her end. Not the fact that she died, but the fact that Esslemont completely ignored that important death. ST and Cots should have been there dammit. So should Dassem. Her death scene was unworthy.

Disagree. The Assassin-Empress was assassinated in her moment of triumph. Perfect.

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jitsukerr, on Jun 17 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Korbolo Dom

I was disappointed that Esslemont only painted Dom as an idiot. I would have liked to see Dom kicking a little ass. The guy was a high fist and competent commander. I think that was ignored.

How ever I thought his ending was fitting. One viper biting the other.

It wasn't ignored - it was spun against him. I liked the way ICE played this. Anyways, he's not dead yet.

jitsukerr, on Jun 18 2009, 09:06 AM, said:

I think on the whole the comments above suggest a common theme for people's likes/dislikes about how ICE handles characters. He doesn't seem to do complexity well. ...

I thought Storo, Rell, Possum, Laseen, Shimmer, Nait/Jumpy were all exmaples of well handled character development through the book. None of them ended where they started.

Newbee, on Jun 20 2009, 11:24 AM, said:

Yeh loved nil and nether in DG. RoCG did them a dsiservice, they still seem adolesent, i mean they were killing demi gods back in DG and they gave eveything surviving the chain of dogs. In my mind they should have at least semi ascendant power by now and at least godlike status within the wickan community. The wickans as a whole were dissappointing.

I don't see why they would have needed more power-up than they got (see Nether and Rillish jumping warrens after the spy). And the Wickans are hardly a reverent people likely to go around kissing the two kids' butts just because they didn't die with Coltaine. I did think the big ride thru chaos to the battle was great fun. The rest of the Wickan storyline felt a bit tacked on and unnecessary at times. And some little sadistic part of me wanted to see Mallick try to kill them at the end there.

cjd262e, on Jun 22 2009, 12:09 AM, said:

...I thought ICE did great with Laseen. It was cool when Possom more or less said, "Of course she's a badass, she was the head of the Claw." I was thinking the same thing when he said it. Her cold/ruthless calculations seemed to be very much in line with how I've thought of her throughout Erikson's books....

I've typed it before, i'll type it again... ICE absolutely rocked Laseen in this book. I am in awe of what he accomplished with this character, staying entirely consistent with the Laseen we've know and hated thru the series so far but making her entirely cool and readable.

- Abyss, ...won't get into the long lanky dirty greasy long hari thing...

[Jorram]

Abyss, on Jun 17 2009, 08:10 PM, said:

Tayshrenn has only the scene at the end where he fixes the rift. It was more overt than we're used to seeing but look at the end of of MoI and then tell me he doesn't have the potential to get pissed and go big.

The end-scene was fine, but there is one more, when Cowl gets to visit him, and shortly thereafter he also speaks to Kiska.
I personally disliked his development story-wise. As somebody mentioned, we were expecting he had his reasons to stay quiet and those reasons were.. well, meaningful. Instead, turns up he is a slightly saner variation of the Hairlock situation now. His character was always not quite consistent, but at least his story made some sense in SE books. I kinda feel him wasted now.

I'd also agree about Osserc being too damned weird in this book. His storyline made no sense at all barring coolness effect and some plot convenience regarding Kyle. Character-wise, I think Osserc is the biggest difference compared to SE.

K'azz, not even worth mentioning
Greymane rocked

and btw I still can't quite wrap my head around WHY was Ghelel in this book. I didn't even understand what did the League intend to use her for? She only crossed some rivers SOMEWHERE all book long. and she was even more annoying than Kiska, to start with.

This post has been edited by Jorram: 24 June 2009 - 03:18 AM

[Urizen]

Jorram, on Jun 24 2009, 03:12 AM, said:

and btw I still can't quite wrap my head around WHY was Ghelel in this book. I didn't even understand what did the League intend to use her for? She only crossed some rivers SOMEWHERE all book long. and she was even more annoying than Kiska, to start with.

The League didn't really intend anything with her. She was merely a figurehead they used to (presumably) recruit Talian patriots and malcontents.

Personally I liked Ghelel and I figured ROTCG was used to introduce her character and show who she is and where she come from. So that when she appears in future books, Stoneweilder maybe?, she and her opinions/actions don't just appear out of the blue.

Of course, If we never see or hear from her ever again, then her character was rather pointless...

[Moby]

Urizen, on Jun 24 2009, 03:43 AM, said:

Jorram, on Jun 24 2009, 03:12 AM, said:

and btw I still can't quite wrap my head around WHY was Ghelel in this book. I didn't even understand what did the League intend to use her for? She only crossed some rivers SOMEWHERE all book long. and she was even more annoying than Kiska, to start with.

The League didn't really intend anything with her. She was merely a figurehead they used to (presumably) recruit Talian patriots and malcontents.

Personally I liked Ghelel and I figured ROTCG was used to introduce her character and show who she is and where she come from. So that when she appears in future books, Stoneweilder maybe?, she and her opinions/actions don't just appear out of the blue.

Of course, If we never see or hear from her ever again, then her character was rather pointless...

Since (secret assassin) Moss was actively tracking here in the end I doubt we never see or hear from her ever again. I really feel like maybe 35% of this book was just hooks for the next one. Like Stonewielder should have a sub-heading (ROTCG: Part 2)

[D'rek]

Moby, on Aug 8 2009, 10:57 PM, said:

Urizen, on Jun 24 2009, 03:43 AM, said:

Jorram, on Jun 24 2009, 03:12 AM, said:

and btw I still can't quite wrap my head around WHY was Ghelel in this book. I didn't even understand what did the League intend to use her for? She only crossed some rivers SOMEWHERE all book long. and she was even more annoying than Kiska, to start with.

The League didn't really intend anything with her. She was merely a figurehead they used to (presumably) recruit Talian patriots and malcontents.

Personally I liked Ghelel and I figured ROTCG was used to introduce her character and show who she is and where she come from. So that when she appears in future books, Stoneweilder maybe?, she and her opinions/actions don't just appear out of the blue.

Of course, If we never see or hear from her ever again, then her character was rather pointless...

Since (secret assassin) Moss was actively tracking here in the end I doubt we never see or hear from her ever again. I really feel like maybe 35% of this book was just hooks for the next one. Like Stonewielder should have a sub-heading (ROTCG: Part 2)

"The Return of The Return of the Crimson Guard" ??