[Wampyry]

Have no idea where to post this so I chose here.
Just what is the Abyss?? Chaos is described as the area between realms - occassionally abutting them
Zilch on the Abyss. Is it Warren, Realm, Something unique? Nil, Nether, Rellish and a few thousand
Wickans are ridiing through the Abyss so it has land. Yet, it seems to be eating itself as the land is
quickly disappearing behind Rellish. Any explanation is appreciated.

[Lisheo]

I think it's something akin to the whole concept of the "void" or whatever you want to call it... Nil and Nether are powerful warlocks, which is what I put the land down to.
But it's fairly undefined, as things go in the MBotF. Perhaps it's simply another Warren.

[Aptorian]

My opinion:

I've always thought of Chaos as two different things at once. One it's a physical space that functions as a kind of outer space between places, not just the warrens but the worlds and universes as well. Like our space has radiation and extreme conditions like extreme temperatures and vacuums, chaos is filled with its own dangers and powers. The Second thing that Chaos works as is the "warren'ish" aspect of existence, a strange will of its own battling all of creation and the imposition of order because it is its antithesis. In this place the breaking down of creation and the recreation of new things like the elements take place.

The Abyss I think is a place within chaos, or from the description of the place it lies at the bottom of the Abyss. I think it is where things end up when they have no where else to go. Most likely the Abyss is the end of existence, the final resting place of everything.

EDIT: @ Wamp, I changed the title a little. Added some more description making easier to tell the subject matter for future searches.

[lobo the wolfman]

I got the impression that the Abyss was like Tartarus in greek mythology, the great pit that was below every thing else even Hades.

[Urb]

Here's how I see it, kind of...

 abyss.jpg (91.99K)
Number of downloads: 17


I figure the abyss/chaos is the void/space between worlds, and mages can tap into the vast energy found there. Mages can also open portals between worlds/warrens/holds. Or these portals can appear randomly. A sundered realm is just pieces of a broken world/warren/hold drifting around (but they still have gravity). Add to all that lots of magics and other fun of course.

The power/energy found in a world (spiritual magic to the locals), warren or hold is clean (solid) and "easy" to control, while the power/energy found in chaos is... bad.

Doesn't fit exactly, but I like simple models I can wrap my head around

[T'renn]

Quite illustrative

[Wampyry]

Lisheo, on May 2 2009, 06:15 PM, said:

I think it's something akin to the whole concept of the "void" or whatever you want to call it... Nil and Nether are powerful warlocks, which is what I put the land down to.
But it's fairly undefined, as things go in the MBotF. Perhaps it's simply another Warren.

Lisheo, right, Nil, Nether and Wickan Warlocks were laying the ground before them; Abyss was
obliterating the ground behind them. Lucky they were very fast

Quote

I've always thought of Chaos as two different things at once.

Apt, thanks for changing the title. I got too many hits when I searched just for "Abyss"
Think you nailed it. Abyss and Chaos are two sides of the same coin. Abyss slightly older, I think

[HoosierDaddy]

Lisheo, on May 2 2009, 06:15 PM, said:

I think it's something akin to the whole concept of the "void" or whatever you want to call it... Nil and Nether are powerful warlocks, which is what I put the land down to.
But it's fairly undefined, as things go in the MBotF. Perhaps it's simply another Warren.

That scene has always struck me as very The Langoliers like, if you've ever read S. King's novella, or have seen the 2 part movie (blech).

Aptorian, on May 2 2009, 06:27 PM, said:

My opinion:

I've always thought of Chaos as two different things at once. One it's a physical space that functions as a kind of outer space between places, not just the warrens but the worlds and universes as well. Like our space has radiation and extreme conditions like extreme temperatures and vacuums, chaos is filled with its own dangers and powers. The Second thing that Chaos works as is the "warren'ish" aspect of existence, a strange will of its own battling all of creation and the imposition of order because it is its antithesis. In this place the breaking down of creation and the recreation of new things like the elements take place.

The Abyss I think is a place within chaos, or from the description of the place it lies at the bottom of the Abyss. I think it is where things end up when they have no where else to go. Most likely the Abyss is the end of existence, the final resting place of everything.

EDIT: @ Wamp, I changed the title a little. Added some more description making easier to tell the subject matter for future searches.

Urb, on May 3 2009, 02:40 AM, said:

Here's how I see it, kind of...

abyss.jpg


I figure the abyss/chaos is the void/space between worlds, and mages can tap into the vast energy found there. Mages can also open portals between worlds/warrens/holds. Or these portals can appear randomly. A sundered realm is just pieces of a broken world/warren/hold drifting around (but they still have gravity). Add to all that lots of magics and other fun of course.

The power/energy found in a world (spiritual magic to the locals), warren or hold is clean (solid) and "easy" to control, while the power/energy found in chaos is... bad.

Doesn't fit exactly, but I like simple models I can wrap my head around

I like a combination of Apt and Urb's theories. That Chaos is the filler between what else is there. Not necessarily a void, but more like something that is anathema to the order presented by worlds, gods, and inhabitants abiding by set structures and rules. The Abyss is kind of the farther most reaches of Chaos, where the truly lost end up.

[Pilfer]

Maybe the Abyss is what chaos was like before it was confined and controlled. It's the "leftovers".

The chaos found in between the Warrens, and what some mages tap (like Hairlock) is an echo of the Abyss, which is chaos in it's natural, unrefined state. The void/oblivion concept works; life itself would be antithesis to the Abyss, thus why it consumes things utterly.

This post has been edited by Pilfer: 04 May 2009 - 01:56 AM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I interpret the Abyss as hell or some other place you wouldn't want to find yourself in. Having read somnay characters say "Go to the Abyss" and suchlike, that's what I reckon. However, the gods and ascendants do refer to it in different cadence...so go figure.

[Blend]

Not sure if this will work, but....



This is how *I* think of the Abyss. If the Warrens are the insides of Krul's body, and that Chaos is what surrounds the warrens, there has to be something that surrounds Krul, right? So the Abyss is what's outside of his body. When the Wickans travel through the Abyss, they're going outside of the 'universe' where there is NOTHING.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Blend, on May 4 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

Not sure if this will work, but....



This is how *I* think of the Abyss. If the Warrens are the insides of Krul's body, and that Chaos is what surrounds the warrens, there has to be something that surrounds Krul, right? So the Abyss is what's outside of his body. When the Wickans travel through the Abyss, they're going outside of the 'universe' where there is NOTHING.

i think thats a pretty good representation there of what i envision as the abyss as well

[Wampyry]

Thanks all for your comments. They were both interessting and informative. I think the Abyss is the oldest sort of like the nothingness before the Big Bang

This post has been edited by Wampyry: 08 May 2009 - 12:46 AM

[D'rek]

Sinisdar Toste, on May 5 2009, 06:25 PM, said:

Blend, on May 4 2009, 09:14 AM, said:

Not sure if this will work, but....



This is how *I* think of the Abyss. If the Warrens are the insides of Krul's body, and that Chaos is what surrounds the warrens, there has to be something that surrounds Krul, right? So the Abyss is what's outside of his body. When the Wickans travel through the Abyss, they're going outside of the 'universe' where there is NOTHING.

i think thats a pretty good representation there of what i envision as the abyss as well

The Udinaas quote dawnkiller pulled up in the KCCM Matron thread fits this nicely:

Quote

'Nothing preceded Darkness,' said Clip, irritation sharpening his pronouncement.

Undinaas shrugged. 'That seems a reasonable enough assertion. But then, is it? After all, Darkness is not just absence of light, is it? Can you have a negative definition like that? But maybe Clip wasn't being nearly so offhand as he sounded just there. "Nothing preceded Darkness." Nothing indeed. True absence, then, of anything. Even Darkness. But wait, where does Chaos fit in? Was that Nothing truly empty, or was it filled with chaos? Was Darkness the imposition of order on chaos? Was it the only imposition of order on chaos? That sounds presumptuous . . . But chaos also produced Fire. It must have, for without Fire there is no Light. One might also say that without Light there is no Dark, and without both there is no Shadow. But Fire needs fuel to burn, so we would need matter of some kind - solids - born of Earth. And Fire needs air, so--'
--RG p.616

The Abyss would be the Nothing, and as he says, filled with chaos

[MTS]

Could the concept of antimatter come into this? Maybe Chaos is the antimatter, that annihilates any matter it comes into contact with, and the Abyss is just a vacuum. Although the fact that there is a floor to the Abyss complicates that idea, instead suggesting something more spatial...

[Wampyry]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on May 8 2009, 12:43 AM, said:

Could the concept of antimatter come into this? Maybe Chaos is the antimatter, that annihilates any matter it comes into contact with, and the Abyss is just a vacuum. Although the fact that there is a floor to the Abyss complicates that idea, instead suggesting something more spatial...

Sorry, my original post blew the ground thing. Nether, Nil and the Wickan mages were laying the ground
before them while the Abyss was eating it from behind.

[Blend]

Wampyry, on May 8 2009, 04:59 PM, said:

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on May 8 2009, 12:43 AM, said:

Could the concept of antimatter come into this? Maybe Chaos is the antimatter, that annihilates any matter it comes into contact with, and the Abyss is just a vacuum. Although the fact that there is a floor to the Abyss complicates that idea, instead suggesting something more spatial...

Sorry, my original post blew the ground thing. Nether, Nil and the Wickan mages were laying the ground
before them while the Abyss was eating it from behind.

I think he was referring to the floor of the Abyss that Hairlock mentions having been to in GOTM. Though that could just have been an GotMism.

[beru]

its there in TTH too

[Blend]

Just thought of something... The 'floor' of the Abyss could be just how people who have been in the Abyss perceive the membrane surrounding another universe, another set of warrens if you will. So maybe the floor of the Abyss is the outer membrane of the CG's world, for example. Who knows, though!

The other possibility I had kicking about in my head is that the Abyss is what's between Chaos and the Warrens. Chaos is constantly mutating and moving, expanding and shrinking, being generally chaotic. So, chaos lives in the Abyss (which would be like a Vaccuum) and the warrens allow humans to live in the real world by closing it off from the chaos that surrounds it.

Discussions about the nature of the warrens are truly interesting!

This post has been edited by Blend: 08 May 2009 - 08:09 PM

[Aptorian]

The Abyss only function is to house the mythical "SPAR OF THE ANDII" in which the Mules of Darkness live.