[Leadslinger]

Gods get power through worship......sacrifice of blood also. The Cabalhii worship Icarium as a god. Is that part of the reason for some of his power? Opinions?

[Aptorian]

I highly doubt that this is his main powersource.

More likely it is a combination of his father being an (unconfirmed) Jaghut Tyrant level jaghut, his mother being someone else impressive and the disaster at the Azath.

[Iskar Jarak]

Yeah some powerful parents make for one powerful kid.

Spoiler

Gothos and Killamandaros if I'm not mistaken.

[Aptorian]

Don't know why you spoilered that, but so far it seems most likely that Iccys mother was a TTT.

I prefer this theory because trying to picture Gothos and Killy getting their freak on is not nice at all.

[dawnkiller]

Fairly early in RG, someone -- the Errant, if I'm not mistaken -- noted that when Icarium lost his father he wandered around seeking a substitute, and found K'rul. K'rul couldn't be that, but gave him -- something -- which was not quite defined, but I suspect may have something to do with the fact he can invest his arrows. (I do know now his sword isn't similarly invested; when meeting Karsa in the marketplace about midway through the book he quite clearly says he doesn't have a "magic sword" like the Toblakai.)

Seconding Apt's remark about the Azath house. Exposure to "ascendant places" and "ascendant blood" can kick you along the road to Ascendancy ala Paran, so carving into an Azath -- which I think technically counts as both -- would probably do it.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Did the Azath house really help give him his power, or did it just make his power unstable? It seems to me that if you have the balls to attack an Azath house you also probably have the power to do so. And since he nearly destroyed it (or maybe he did destroy it completely I can't remember) he would have had to already be mega-powerful, I mean, exposure to the Azath house wasn't making him more powerful as he was killing it.

[Aptorian]

Cotillion himself... or wait, was that Morgora? ... well, one of them actually stated that Illy is infected with a chaotic force. It's what is keeping Iccys mind from healing. This was obviously something he picked up from the Azath. At least that is the obvious assumption to jump to.

But yeah, even before he went nuts he was powerfull. Most likely he has the power of a Tyrant.

[dawnkiller]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on Apr 22 2009, 11:56 AM, said:

Did the Azath house really help give him his power, or did it just make his power unstable? It seems to me that if you have the balls to attack an Azath house you also probably have the power to do so. And since he nearly destroyed it (or maybe he did destroy it completely I can't remember) he would have had to already be mega-powerful, I mean, exposure to the Azath house wasn't making him more powerful as he was killing it.

I suspect he ran into K'rul before that, while still looking for Gothos -- so yeah, it probably made whatever power he'd acquired become unstable and chaos-tainted from damage inflicted on an entity of Order. Definitely he'd been given something, because the Errant mused whether or not K'rul regretted it. (I can try to find the exact quote when I'm around my copy again.)

This post has been edited by dawnkiller: 22 April 2009 - 05:00 PM

[D'rek]

dawnkiller, on Apr 22 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

[...]K'rul couldn't be that, but gave him -- something -- which was not quite defined, but I suspect may have something to do with the fact he can invest his arrows. [...]

His arrows are made of wood from Phyrlis. They probably don't need to be further invested to be awesomely strong, they are made from wood conjoining a Jaghut and an Azath house...

[Aptorian]

There was warrens carved into the arrows. So not just the wood, unless the warrens serve as a link between the Phyrlis/dead azath and the wood in the arrow... But that's not normally the magic we see demonstrated in the Malazan books.

[dawnkiller]

D'rek, on Apr 22 2009, 02:42 PM, said:

His arrows are made of wood from Phyrlis. They probably don't need to be further invested to be awesomely strong, they are made from wood conjoining a Jaghut and an Azath house...

Gah, that's right. Okay, I officially have no idea what K'rul gave him, then. Unless it was directions to the nearest Azath, in which case I could see how he might have wished he'd thought that through a little more.

(I still can't decide -- does the fact Phyrlis wasn't actually dead make that more or less morbid?)

[dawnkiller]

Aptorian, on Apr 22 2009, 02:50 PM, said:

There was warrens carved into the arrows. So not just the wood, unless the warrens serve as a link between the Phyrlis/dead azath and the wood in the arrow... But that's not normally the magic we see demonstrated in the Malazan books.

Yeah, I can't think of many other intentionally "invested" weapons off the top of my head. Aside from TtH's

Spoiler

Moranth munitions

, Sammar Dev's ghost-collecting knife and the Tellann-containing swords of the Imass (as per MoI anyway), I'd say they're fairly rare. I do recall the Awl commenting that Toc was carrying ritually consecrated arrows but, bizarrely, without any associated spirit blessing them, presumably because he learned to make them from Tool in MoI, and the Imass spirits have been since kicked to the curb. All the other weapons I can think of are those literally created by gods, like Dragnipur.

[Leadslinger]

Karsa in RG acknowledges after looking at Icarium(after the marketplace meeting) that he saw Toblakai blood in him. Karsa is normally good at reading stuff. So, take it to the bank that Icariums mother has Toblakai blood or is/was a full blooded Toblakai. Could she be alive? We have not had a powerful female Toblakai ever in the storyline so I doubt she has been mentioned as of yet.

[Aptorian]

THE ERES IS HIS MOTHER AND ICARUM IS THE CHILD OF SHADOW!

You heard it here first...

[HoosierDaddy]

Icarium's power is derived from his ancestry (Gothos + unknown TTT mother). Has his "semi"-successful assault on Tremorlor (or random Azath) has altered him permanently. Did that alteration result in a power boost? No reason to think so, other than the fact that it might have altered him in such a way as to make him more dangerous.

Who knows. Keen is the ultimate equalizer, in the end, I guess. What's the immovable object that Icarium's unstoppable force going to meet?

[Kryphon]

Iccy continually gets my excited to see him unleashed only to flatline before anything cool happens. He's actually beginning to piss me off (I know, it isnt his fualt). And what was all that crap with the machines in Lether? Something else anti-climactic to tag on him.

Sorry, I find him frustrating. Potentially the most destructive character EVER and he never does anything.. Except in the cave before the Eres knocks him out. I WANT CARNAGE ALREADY!

[Sheve]

The part in BH where Icarium assaults the first throne is in my opinion the best part of the series, i read it almost once every month.
He kills 200ish Letheri and Edur in what 20 seconds? he incapacitate 1 Tlan imass and chops another in to 8parts, he makes a Imass bonecaster melt.
And he faces the Knight of shadow and bet him after what 1-2min?(prolly less).
He faces the full force of QB head on without even taking a wound.
He kills the Aptorian matron with 1 blow.
And once more face Trull.
The only reason that anyone besides him survive is because the ares´al comes to rescue them, and she might be one of the most powerful magic wielders in the world.

that whole part is the best i have ever read, regardless of genre or book!

This post has been edited by Sheve: 23 April 2009 - 08:48 PM

[Leadslinger]

Aptorian, on Apr 23 2009, 01:57 AM, said:

THE ERES IS HIS MOTHER AND ICARUM IS THE CHILD OF SHADOW!

You heard it here first...

Nope, the Eres doesn't look like she has Toblakai blood in any way shape or form from what I have read. She is too small and hairy.

[Old Magic]

does he ascend in Letheras? I've only read the middle 4 books (4-7) and ascending was attached to names but not talked about, the actual act of it.. Im sure he will return in some way by the end.. Rhulads sword might come in handy now that its single again..

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

If Icarium is not an ascendant than I have literally no understanding of that term. I know he has not ascended to godhood, (ok saying god hood could be confusing with these books I just realized) but there are many ascendants that are not gods. Icarium has been around for countless milennia, been one of the most powerful beings in the world, and been involved in some great, epic, battles and occurences.