[D'rek]

Gothos, on Jul 27 2009, 01:01 PM, said:

Agraba, on Jul 24 2009, 02:31 PM, said:

I'm amazed how much FF7 was mentioned, especially out of a series which, in my opinion, has 4 much better titles. I guess it's because FF7 had the best storyline, with the most powerful impact in delivery - but it was far from the best gameplay in the series which, when you think about it, is what really counts in a video game.

to each his own I guess. i prefer a good storyline to great gameplay. for instance, take Legacy of Kain: Defiance. due to how the camera and controls work, some places are just HELL to play through. but the story and characters save the game and make it awesome.
a game with good gameplay and shit storyline is just minesweeper on steroids

I agree with Gothos that a game needs to have a good story and frankly RPGs are never very unique from each other in terms of gameplay so the story is even more important then for most games. But contrary to Agraba, I think FF3/6 had a better story then FF7 anyways - while FF7's story was by no means bad, it was focused on a single character with a mysterious background and that isn't exactly unique enough to really get super-emotional, while FF3/6 had the story revolving around a half-dozen characters and the intertwining of their own stories into one grandiose adventure (and thankfully only one of them had the "mysterious background/I dont know who I am" bit), which imo was much more emotionally triggering.


I'd also like to add to this thread Terranigma (another SNES title). Though not necessarily my favourite, it was quite a cool game and like other Quintet RPGs really emphasizes the world-building, literally. In the opener you start in a mysterious sort of hell/underworld and first ressurect the continents of the surface world. In chapter 1 you go up to the barren lands and create all the plants, then bring forth all the animals, then recreate humanity. You spend all of chapter 3 helping humanity to prosper and creating the great cities and technologies, then get your butt kicked when the technologies get extreme and a crazy dude builds a giant robot that kicks your butt before unleashing a plague upon the entire world. In chapter 4 you do some questing to get some item thingies to bring forth God, but the devil shows up and kills you instead. And then there's a chapter 5 that I'm not going to reveal! It's trippy but awesome and an extremely detailed game, quite fun.

[Agraba]

D'rek, on Jul 27 2009, 12:56 PM, said:

Gothos, on Jul 27 2009, 01:01 PM, said:

Agraba, on Jul 24 2009, 02:31 PM, said:

I'm amazed how much FF7 was mentioned, especially out of a series which, in my opinion, has 4 much better titles. I guess it's because FF7 had the best storyline, with the most powerful impact in delivery - but it was far from the best gameplay in the series which, when you think about it, is what really counts in a video game.

to each his own I guess. i prefer a good storyline to great gameplay. for instance, take Legacy of Kain: Defiance. due to how the camera and controls work, some places are just HELL to play through. but the story and characters save the game and make it awesome.
a game with good gameplay and shit storyline is just minesweeper on steroids

I agree with Gothos that a game needs to have a good story and frankly RPGs are never very unique from each other in terms of gameplay so the story is even more important then for most games. But contrary to Agraba, I think FF3/6 had a better story then FF7 anyways - while FF7's story was by no means bad, it was focused on a single character with a mysterious background and that isn't exactly unique enough to really get super-emotional, while FF3/6 had the story revolving around a half-dozen characters and the intertwining of their own stories into one grandiose adventure (and thankfully only one of them had the "mysterious background/I dont know who I am" bit), which imo was much more emotionally triggering.

I guess what I liked about the FF7 story so much was the sci-fi aspect; how it's about an apparently "dead" alien whose substance amplifies people's aggression and power, and how one evil scientist (Hojo, who, in my opinion, is the true villain of FF7) decides the ruthless experiment of injecting the unborn fetus of his wife with the stuff to bring forth some crazy dude. Plus, while FF6 had so many characters, most of them had some origin barely touched upon, while I think the characters in FF7 were better covered and linked. For example, we might know guys like Gau, Mog, Umaro, etc.. from like 2 sentences of backstory, while guys like Red XIII or Vincent had entire chapters dedicated to them and their history and connection. But that's my opinion anyways; FF6 is still, in my eyes, a far superior video game to FF7.

Also, I'm not especially strict about the storyline of a video game because they always fall under certain constraints which require them to fit the video game format - especially RPGs. They still require a good guy/band-of good guys whose quest is unquestionably justified no matter how disdainful their personality, and someone for whom, while their motives can be debated, their plan is unquestionably one that must be stopped. That makes all the RPG stories quite predictable in structure, and you can't have endings like, for example, the one in House of Chains. So in my opinion, the single most important criteria a video game must accomplish is that of its namesake, good gameplay. Everything else - like storyline - is a side benefit which is allowed to have loopholes if it works in the benefit of the gameplay.

If I can add something though, I seem to remember Grandia being very fun, although I haven't played it since I was little. I remember trying Grandia 2 and getting bored of it quickly. And for nostalgia (not necessarily for quality of the game, though I do seem to remember it being fun), Soul Blazer, by Enix, I think, before it merged with Squaresoft.

Also, on PC, the Diablo series, to me, is awesome.

[D'rek]

Well I can see your point on the characters of FF6 but really Mog and Umaro are really just sidekicks (you never even have to get them at all), whereas I was only really considering the main characters (Terra, Locke, Edgar, Sabin, Celes, Shadow, Setzer, and to a lesser extent the old guy and his daughter).


Ah, Soul Blazer. That was an interesting game for its time. Almost no story to it at all but gradually filling the empty world with the souls you redeem was awesome. Interesting that its two successors were so different - Illusion of Gaia takes the plot and makes a rich, emotional story but drops the whole filling-your-own-world aspect, while Terranigma has a bit less focus on the story but takes the world-filling aspect to epic proportions. I love all 3 though.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Minesweeper has an epic plot and characters, as evidenced by the movie previewed here:

http://www.collegehu...m/video:1770138

[Morgoth]

I must say I prefered FF7 over FF6, or any of the other ones. The story of Cloud was much more than just someone who've lost his memory. At the begining you knew very well who he was, it was only later that things started being ... wrong... and even then you didn't really realise how wrong his memories where until you ended up inside his head.

Cloud was an awesome hero, and how his story made his fate so elegantly intertwined with Sephiroth's made it even better in my opinion. I enjoyed the dynamic of the characters and how the plot developed. Not to mention that the cut-scenes were brilliant for their time.

[Gothos]

cloud, shmoud... Aerith wins the game and you know that!

[jaysen]

Vagrant Story.

and

Disgaea (1 or 3, not sure which one I like better).

[champ]

Tales of Symphonia - Gamecube, Rogue Galaxy - PS2, and FF7 - PS1 (played and completed all FFs) 3 of my favourites...

But miles ahead of them, my favourite game of all time - Shining Force 3 for the Saturn, just a quality game, gripping!

I was absoluately gutted when they didnt bother releasing episodes 2 & 3 in English, otherwise reckon would of had alot more rep!

[SpectreofEschaton]

Ultima: Quest of the Avatar for the NES. Ah, the fond memories of being 5, snubbing lepers, murdering townspeople, and, in general, failing utterly to even realize the point of the game. Playing it over 10 years later was much more enjoyable.

Seriously, though, Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions is just a perfect game to me. Infinitely replay-able, portable, multi-player, amazing story, amazing writing, amazing battle system, amazing customization. And...slowdown, but who cares?

[cerveza_fiesta]

I definitely threw the most time at the good ol' black isle 2D RPGs. IWD 1,2 Baldur's 1,2, Neverwinter nights 1 (couldn't get into 2) and of course Planescape, whose story was above and beyond all the rest.

I just always dug a good story with my RPG and found those Black Isle ones to be far better than most in that regard - even though Planescape was a tad heavy on the dialogue compared to the others.

[Gust Hubb]

Ragnarok, an old-school 2D game that actually is now freeware up online (tho takes a little fiddling to get it to work on the newer PCs). Hint, go for the Red Bag.

http://en.wikipedia....rok_(video_game)

[Gust Hubb]

I also miss Ultima Underworld....

[King Bear]

Gust Hubb necrothreads, Briar King posts, then myself. I see a pattern forming. Anyway like you Hubb I joined well after these interesting/fun threads died a natural death, so I'm down with the reanimation.

I find it difficult to pick a favourite RPG. I've replayed Ultima VII the most, but I adore Baldur's Gate II, Torment and Morrowind just as much. The other Ultima games are awesome also, well most of them.

On the console, it's Chrono Trigger and Phantasy Star IV.

[Mentalist]

the original Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain was described as an "RPG in the style of Diablo"

and that is one of THE best games I have ever played in my life. not to mention that it spawned a series with one of the best storylines in all of gaming.

[King Bear]

Mentalist, on 21 May 2011 - 05:43 AM, said:

the original Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain was described as an "RPG in the style of Diablo"

and that is one of THE best games I have ever played in my life. not to mention that it spawned a series with one of the best storylines in all of gaming.

I always wanted to play that one. I've played some of the later ones that weren't really RPGs, but more tomb-raidery.

Good stories, indeed they are sir.

[Solidsnape]

I would have to say, in terms of sheer hours played, that FF X sits at the top.
Though baldurs gate 2 is a VERY close second.
I though, even though the game could be quite monotonous, it was never boring.

Big KOTOR fan too!! Second one was pants though.

FF tactics: war of the lions was good on psp, pretty deep storyline, lots of job classes!!!
I love rpg's!!
Wish there was a malazan one!!!!!

[King Bear]

Solidsnape, on 21 May 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

I would have to say, in terms of sheer hours played, that FF X sits at the top.
Though baldurs gate 2 is a VERY close second.
I though, even though the game could be quite monotonous, it was never boring.

Big KOTOR fan too!! Second one was pants though.

FF tactics: war of the lions was good on psp, pretty deep storyline, lots of job classes!!!
I love rpg's!!
Wish there was a malazan one!!!!!

eh I never thought BG II was monotonous. FF X was though Put it down to a difference in taste.

KOTOR was awesome. The second one was so disappointing at least in part because Lucasarts rushed the release on Obsidian.

A Malazan one would rock my socks off.

[Solidsnape]

Yes FF X was monotonous, I'll go with that. Yet another random battle.....
But BD's gate was similar, kill someone then loot.
Kill someone, then loot.

This doesn't bother me though. RPG games are about the story, and character building IMO. The gameplay is generally repetitive, to some degree.
I just enjoy the sandbox approach to most RPG games, they had that 'non linear' element long before games like GTA stole all the credit.

KOTOR was just the absolute mutts nuts!! I was so disappointed with the 2nd one.
Thinking that Mass Effect might be worth a shot. Ain't got an xbox though, and my PC is not upto it.

Not really for this thread, but is anyone still playing Frontier?
Now there was a game!!!!

[King Bear]

Solidsnape, on 21 May 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Yes FF X was monotonous, I'll go with that. Yet another random battle.....
But BD's gate was similar, kill someone then loot.
Kill someone, then loot.

This doesn't bother me though. RPG games are about the story, and character building IMO. The gameplay is generally repetitive, to some degree.
I just enjoy the sandbox approach to most RPG games, they had that 'non linear' element long before games like GTA stole all the credit.

KOTOR was just the absolute mutts nuts!! I was so disappointed with the 2nd one.
Thinking that Mass Effect might be worth a shot. Ain't got an xbox though, and my PC is not upto it.

Not really for this thread, but is anyone still playing Frontier?
Now there was a game!!!!

I got bored with the rigid linearity of FFX. I'd forgotten about the looting in BG II and how annoying it got. I generally enjoyed the encounters in BG II, and they weren't monotonous for me. lol I remember in BG I'd often leave minor loot on the ground later in the game, not because it wouldn't be useful, but because I couldn't be bothered picking it up.

Since you like non-linear rpgs, have you tried the Elder Scrolls games? They're about as non-linear as it gets, and are still being produced. They're also all excellent. The latest is Oblivion, but the third one, Morrowind, is generally considered the best. Unless your PC is really old, Morrowind should run extremely well on it. Get the Game of the Year edition. It's cheap and includes both expansions.

Ultima VII, which I mentioned up-thread, is another great sandbox rpg. It's ancient now, but still fun and very accessible. You'll need to download Exult to play it on modern PCs, but that's no problem.

Edit: oh and you'll love Mass Effect. It's a lot like KOTOR, except better.

This post has been edited by Quick Ben's Magic Pants: 21 May 2011 - 11:00 AM

[Solidsnape]

LOVE oblivion.
Was loth to say so, as most people (purists) pipe up, saying morrowind is better. I've never played it so I wouldn't know. Oblivion is about as good as it gets for me though. Can't wait for Skyrim.
My ps3 is knackered though. Will have to sort that out.