[Aptorian]

Continuing the trend of watching unpopular movie releases, I watched the new Ghostbusters. Again surprisingly not bad. Not amazing. Certainly not as funny. Not that charming. But it's actually okay. I came to like the girls as the film progressed. The plot was more cartoonish than I liked, absolutely no horror aspect to the film what so ever but I wouldn't mind watching a sequel.

Still much like the trailers, I wonder about who wrote this film. It's like they saw the old Ghostbusters films, wrote down all the details but didn't understand what made the old films work.

[Aptorian]

Next up was "Now You See Me 2". I love this series of films. They're fast and flashy enough that you can overlook the sillyness. I was afraid they were pulling a Ocean's 12 in the start of the film, but the film managed to regain it's feet and keep up the momentum.

Really happy to see a third film is already in the works. I feel like "The Eye" stuff is mysterious enough to continue making films around and I love the over the top "big budget" magic shows they pull.

[QuickTidal]

Saw ARRIVAL today.

It was fantastic, thought provoking smart sci-if with focus on language and science.

One of the best movies of the year.

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 13 November 2016 - 11:54 PM, said:

It seems like it'd be stellar just from trailers alone

Yeah, and the trailers were vague about the aliens and the nature of the film as well, which helps it be refreshing throughout.

Great film

[worry]

As long as it's not interstellar, if you know what I mean.

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 13 November 2016 - 10:43 PM, said:

Saw ARRIVAL today.

It was fantastic, thought provoking smart sci-if with focus on language and science.

One of the best movies of the year.

I'm about to go see this. Hope the captions work.

[amphibian]

amphibian, on 14 November 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 November 2016 - 10:43 PM, said:

Saw ARRIVAL today.

It was fantastic, thought provoking smart sci-if with focus on language and science.

One of the best movies of the year.

I'm about to go see this. Hope the captions work.

The captions the theater had were there for 90% of the movie. It was enough for me to consider this movie a masterpiece. It's on the level of Ex Machina, which is a top five movie ever for me. I'll buy and rewatch Arrival several times before I confirm this opinion.

It's gorgeous, moving, thought provoking, and very, very keen on pointing out human behavior good and bad. Terrific performances and the actual mechanics of the movie work quite well - no info dumps out of place, the story coalesces well, and the dramatic tension remains well modulated throughout.

Truly worth your money and time.

[QuickTidal]

My. Favourite. Disney. Movie. Ever. In live action.

Cannot wait.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 14 November 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

amphibian, on 14 November 2016 - 12:32 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 November 2016 - 10:43 PM, said:

Saw ARRIVAL today.

It was fantastic, thought provoking smart sci-if with focus on language and science.

One of the best movies of the year.

I'm about to go see this. Hope the captions work.

The captions the theater had were there for 90% of the movie. It was enough for me to consider this movie a masterpiece. It's on the level of Ex Machina, which is a top five movie ever for me. I'll buy and rewatch Arrival several times before I confirm this opinion.

It's gorgeous, moving, thought provoking, and very, very keen on pointing out human behavior good and bad. Terrific performances and the actual mechanics of the movie work quite well - no info dumps out of place, the story coalesces well, and the dramatic tension remains well modulated throughout.

Truly worth your money and time.

I knew I was watching a truly incredible film when:

Spoiler

Halfway through, Renner's character is narrating about the Heptapod's and it felt like I was watching a Planet Earth style BBC documentary ablaut these things and our interactions with them. I mean there was something so perfectly normal about that, and I had to remind myself I was watching a film about first contact and aliens. It was added to by Johann Johannsson's incredibly apt score.

...but the part that absolutely FLOORED me was

Spoiler

After the final revelation about the Heptapod's "gift" to seeing time non-linearly and the fact that Hannah's life was seen AS Louise was near the craft and studying it...instead of BEFORE it as we are initially led to believe...the film ends on the night they conceive Hannah...and it cuts to black and the title comes up "ARRIVAL"...and I'm like ...holy shit, it's in the goddamned title. The concept of the film is hidden in a title that means two things (alien arrival, her daughter's arrival) from different ends of time...the same concept as their language.

I mean that was the final note of "This is a masterpiece" for me.

Just incredible.

[amphibian]

I have a wee bit to talk about with you regarding Arrival, so I'll head into spoiler space.

Spoiler

The info dumps were done very well with the Colonel asking to justify this to his superiors and Ian asking for his own understanding/introduce the rewiring of the brain concept.

However, I felt like Ian would have asked Louise more questions and tried to throw in some math/scientific talk about gravity manipulation/technology etc. He is set up to have his own team and almost co-equal footing, even if Louise is the better interface with the heptapods. The movie rightly focuses on Louise, but it felt like a minute of Ian asking questions of his own accord or explaining this or that to the military/CIA people would have established him as a stronger and more involved character. That's it - that's the only criticism I have of this movie. I get why we focused heavily upon Louise/Amy Adams and I like very much that Renner is almost in the "sidebarred lady character" role in this.

Also - "war" or "battle" has a few different words in Sanskrit, depending on the context. There's yuddha, which is like an honorable war, then gavisti, which is indeed "the desire for more cows", and then I think there's samara, which is something else entirely. I might have yuddha and samara mixed up and I'm sure one of them does actually mean argument. I'll ask a couple family friends fluent in Sanskrit to help me out with that and see what they say. Fighting for cows in the context of the Sanskrit culture waaaay back when was a bit nobler than simple cattle rustling and murdering, but it's still material gains-driven conflict. Very interesting set of concepts to play with and it's rightly left as just a hint at the deeper layers of history, context, and communication that Louise is working on the entire time.

The staging of the explosives plot by American soldiers driven on by lunatic fringe radio was brilliant. The choice to not make the Russians or the Chinese the first ones to actually attack the heptapods - despite the Chinese officially declaring war - and to have the Americans do it is sublime. We also harbor our own enemies within and it fits perfectly in the story and in its observations on our own reality.

I truly connected to the Up-like beginning story, which made us care about Louise and her child from the get go. I also thought about how within the movie-verse, we probably had a different future set up in which nobody figured out the language until many years/decades/centuries, only for those who figured it out in other timestreams managed to get the message back to General Shang, who got the message back to Louise - who could make the right move now. It's sort of like a reverse Edge of Tomorrow - multiple people working to get the right single future, rather than one person working through multiple futures to get the right one. This one even has multiple sentient species and planets involved in that... Very cool.

Questions that lingered hard for me after the movie: Is it indeed worth it to have that child, knowing she'll die within twenty years? When is the right time to tell your partner this foreknowledge regarding the child? Once other people start becoming "unstuck in time", what happens to the future? The heptapods seem to think that humanity will help them in 3,000 years. Does that posit a future of Earth time in which people generally do the right thing with their future manipulating abilities? Would Heptapod Written Language become a province of the elite only or instantly popular worldwide with everyone?

I'm still thinking about this movie a day later and that's unusual.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 14 November 2016 - 05:35 PM

[Aptorian]

Damn it people, you're going to force me to go watch The Arrival in the cinema if you keep this up.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 14 November 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

I have a wee bit to talk about with you regarding Arrival, so I'll head into spoiler space.

Spoiler

The info dumps were done very well with the Colonel asking to justify this to his superiors and Ian asking for his own understanding/introduce the rewiring of the brain concept.

However, I felt like Ian would have asked Louise more questions and tried to throw in some math/scientific talk about gravity manipulation/technology etc. He is set up to have his own team and almost co-equal footing, even if Louise is the better interface with the heptapods. The movie rightly focuses on Louise, but it felt like a minute of Ian asking questions of his own accord or explaining this or that to the military/CIA people would have established him as a stronger and more involved character. That's it - that's the only criticism I have of this movie. I get why we focused heavily upon Louise/Amy Adams and I like very much that Renner is almost in the "sidebarred lady character" role in this.

Also - "war" or "battle" has a few different words in Sanskrit, depending on the context. There's yuddha, which is like an honorable war, then gavisti, which is indeed "the desire for more cows", and then I think there's samara, which is something else entirely. I might have yuddha and samara mixed up and I'm sure one of them does actually mean argument. I'll ask a couple family friends fluent in Sanskrit to help me out with that and see what they say. Fighting for cows in the context of the Sanskrit culture waaaay back when was a bit nobler than simple cattle rustling and murdering, but it's still material gains-driven conflict. Very interesting set of concepts to play with and it's rightly left as just a hint at the deeper layers of history, context, and communication that Louise is working on the entire time.

The staging of the explosives plot by American soldiers driven on by lunatic fringe radio was brilliant. The choice to not make the Russians or the Chinese the first ones to actually attack the heptapods - despite the Chinese officially declaring war - and to have the Americans do it is sublime. We also harbor our own enemies within and it fits perfectly in the story and in its observations on our own reality.

I truly connected to the Up-like beginning story, which made us care about Louise and her child from the get go. I also thought about how within the movie-verse, we probably had a different future set up in which nobody figured out the language until many years/decades/centuries, only for those who figured it out in other timestreams managed to get the message back to General Shang, who got the message back to Louise - who could make the right move now. It's sort of like a reverse Edge of Tomorrow - multiple people working to get the right single future, rather than one person working through multiple futures to get the right one. This one even has multiple sentient species and planets involved in that... Very cool.

Questions that lingered hard for me after the movie: Is it indeed worth it to have that child, knowing she'll die within twenty years? When is the right time to tell your partner this foreknowledge regarding the child? Once other people start becoming "unstuck in time", what happens to the future? The heptapods seem to think that humanity will help them in 3,000 years. Does that posit a future of Earth time in which people generally do the right thing with their future manipulating abilities? Would Heptapod Written Language become a province of the elite only or instantly popular worldwide with everyone?

I'm still thinking about this movie a day later and that's unusual.

Spoiler

Re: Ian. Oh for sure I can see wanting him to spit out a little more science. Especially because later on during the Zero Sum Game convo between Louise and Hannah she says "You want scientific, go to your father" which leads me to think he should have been more verbose on that topic. But yeah, I'm thinking it was cut out to focus down on Louise and the language question. I also agree about your other points, that we attacked first based on extremists within our own borders ect.

I agree about being connected UP-style from the get go....and I'd be lying if when I saw her child, and going through to the diagnoses and death ect., the new father in me didn't weep more than I might have earlier in my life. But SO poignant, yet simply done.

I have the same lingering questions as you...the child question for Louise was (unless I misunderstand it) that she feels she HAS to have Hannah, so that the heptapod portion of her life can occur and the world can exist and not go to war...similar to that LOST ep The Constant. You need the beginning (heptapod language study at the ship), and the end (Hannah's life) to make up the whole (time foreseeing) equation. I also think that Louise was willing to have the child simply because she was going to give her a good life even knowing where that short life ends up. My question: Is there a part of Louise that WONDERS if Hannah's illness can be averted now that she can use the heptapod language for foreseeing? I wondered at that. I THINK that's the implication with time not being linear for her any longer...but I'm not sure. Not that Hannah won't die for sure...but that there is a possibility it won't occur how it did in her visions...which might be enough for her to feel safe in going ahead with the pregnancy.

I LOVE the conversation with Costello about the "in 3000 years humanity will help us", and how for that to happen the heptapods have to bequeath them with this foresight gift. I believe it DOES posit a more peaceful future. Because with people becoming unstuck from time, it would be hard to lie ..and would be easier to avoid potential issues?

I'm curious what it is the heptapods might need help with, but I'm fond of the idea that humanity has advanced enough by that point to do so.

I THINK it's also implied in one of her visions that Louise teaches the heptapod language to her students, so hopefully that means it's not just the purview of the elite, but that every can partake. This includes, her book....provided it's written in layman's terms.

Also

Spoiler

I love that there are little throwaway lines in the dialogue that are never explained, and if you miss them they might mean little...but when you dig they mean SO much. Like when the Russians heptapods told them "There is no time" and they took that to mean that an attack was imminent...meanwhile it was just the heptapods telling them that they have no concept of time. Just brilliant.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 November 2016 - 06:05 PM

[Aptorian]

Continued my movie marathon today.

Watched Warcraft and really liked it. I mean, this was no Lord of the Rings or anything, but in terms of realising the World of Warcraft universe and pleasing fans, I think they did a hell of a job. The orcs were great and I think the Gryffin stole the show.

I would love it if they make it to the story from Warcraft 3.

Then I watched American Ultra. This film was not quite as cool as I hoped. I was looking for something more "Long Kiss Goodnight" and less stoner kids spy movie. I don't think I am ever going to learn to like Jesse Eisenberg. He was okay in Now you see me but he just rubs me the wrong way. Like an older Michael Cera.

Then I re-watched Lucy. I maintain this film is really fun. As soon as the powers start manifesting I just love the ride.

Currently watching Blood Father with Mel Gibson. Pretty okay film so far but what is most striking is how good Mel Gibson looks in his old age. There's just something incredibly striking about that man. And I love all his weird little mannerisms.

The way he looks in this film makes me think he would actually be perfect for a starring role in the Last of Us movie adaption.

[amphibian]

Going spoilers to continue talking with QT, I think we're wrapping up our thoughts for now though, so it won't take over the whole thread for those of you plebians who've not seen Arrival yet.

Spoiler

QuickTidal, on 14 November 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

I have the same lingering questions as you...the child question for Louise was (unless I misunderstand it) that she feels she HAS to have Hannah, so that the heptapod portion of her life can occur and the world can exist and not go to war...similar to that LOST ep The Constant. You need the beginning (heptapod language study at the ship), and the end (Hannah's life) to make up the whole (time foreseeing) equation. I also think that Louise was willing to have the child simply because she was going to give her a good life even knowing where that short life ends up. My question: Is there a part of Louise that WONDERS if Hannah's illness can be averted now that she can use the heptapod language for foreseeing? I wondered at that. I THINK that's the implication with time not being linear for her any longer...but I'm not sure. Not that Hannah won't die for sure...but that there is a possibility it won't occur how it did in her visions...which might be enough for her to feel safe in going ahead with the pregnancy.

I think the tech level isn't ever going to be high enough in Louise's/Hannah's lifetime to fix the very rare genetic disease. And perhaps any child conceived between Ian and Louise would have it - and so having that time and love, even though it's going to end in heartbreak, is still the right move for Louise. That's such an emotionally fraught and complex thing. I love that the movie was willing to go there (haven't read the short story it's based on... yet).

Quote

I LOVE the conversation with Costello about the "in 3000 years humanity will help us", and how for that to happen the heptapods have to bequeath them with this foresight gift. I believe it DOES posit a more peaceful future. Because with people becoming unstuck from time, it would be hard to lie ..and would be easier to avoid potential issues?

I'm curious what it is the heptapods might need help with, but I'm fond of the idea that humanity has advanced enough by that point to do so.

I THINK it's also implied in one of her visions that Louise teaches the heptapod language to her students, so hopefully that means it's not just the purview of the elite, but that every can partake. This includes, her book....provided it's written in layman's terms.

The issue I saw with this is that if I envision a future in which I'm successfully able to hide the lie from you and you successfully envision a future where you discover the truth... who wins between you and I? Does this become an issue of collective belief regarding the future? Also the issue of propagating change from the worst futures to the better past to divert the stream of time runs into issues of "Who is doing the changing?" and "Which ones become effective in a cacophony?" Fascinating stuff.

The question of what the heptapods need help with is a very cool open ended one. I'd be very interested to see which route any follow-up stories take with it.

Quote

Also I love that there are little throwaway lines in the dialogue that are never explained, and if you miss them they might mean little...but when you dig they mean SO much. Like when the Russians heptapods told them "There is no time" and they took that to mean that an attack was imminent...meanwhile it was just the heptapods telling them that they have no concept of time. Just brilliant.

Yah. I also really want to know what the Mandarin lines were said in regards to General Shang. They were purposely left untranslated onscreen and I'm going to look and see if anyone has translated it yet. I know the "important line" is "In war, there are no winners - only widows." But I want to know the entire conversation and how Louise managed to get Shang to stay on the line long enough to listen to that.

The choice of "Abbott" and "Costello" for names is so inspired because of the famous "Who's on First" comedy bit the original comedians did. I recently saw a video of them doing it at the Cooperstown Baseball Hall of Fame and it was easily the best thing in that museum (I don't actually recommend going there unless you really fuckin' love baseball, which I don't).

Also, I don't think Abbott was tapping the wall to let them know about the bomb. The bomb was less important than getting Louise to touch the wall and thus be in contact with the symbols/knowledge that were there for the big data dump. I think that's a small reason why Louise tapped into the Heptapod Written Language so fast - she physically touched the walls, whereas the other linguists elsewhere may have not done so.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 14 November 2016 - 08:29 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Lucy was too dumb for me to enjoy even on a basic level. Such a dumb movie.

[Tiste Simeon]

OK that Beauty and the Beast film looks immense...

[polishgenius]

I didn't hate Lucy, but it really wasted its potential. It lost any tension whatsoever and didn't replace it particularly with excitement or intrigue or wonder. The use of her powers just wasn't half as stylish as it needed to be to carry something like it.

[worry]

I haven't watched Lucy yet, but with such a goofy premise what I'd expect from it is Fifth Element-level awesome lunacy, so any disappointment will be in light of how far short of that it falls. Maybe I'll watch it this week.

[amphibian]

A random good question: What is the movie that most explains Luc Besson?

I posit that it's Taken 2 - which is a stepping down of what worked in Taken, yet a moneymaker that lets him go do other more creative efforts.

Lockout might be it though - he got sued successfully for ripping so much off, but still made a bunch of money, and the movie was fun.

[Morgoth]

It's hard to summarize Besson with one movie, so I'd chose Transporter + Taxi. I mean he has made some amazing movies in his time, but those two seem to be the essence of what Besson enjoys and excels at.