[Ain't_It_Just_]

Lots of allegories in that scene, I'm thinking that was the Otataral dragon, Togg and Fanderay and some KCCM.

If some of you super-sleuths have nay theories about that part, I'd love to hear 'em.

[Sindriss]

To me it looks like those jade statues might represent the final enemy of the world, since the last book is named the crippled god I guess that either he helps fight against them and sacrefices himself or he is the one who summoned them somehow though Heboric maybe.

[blackzoid]

Sindriss, on Mar 26 2009, 10:29 AM, said:

To me it looks like those jade statues might represent the final enemy of the world, since the last book is named the crippled god I guess that either he helps fight against them and sacrefices himself or he is the one who summoned them somehow though Heboric maybe.

I think the Otatoral dragon will need to be released to counterbalance the jade statues.
The Shot-tails helped with the binding of that dragon, so they may need to be fought.

[Sindriss]

Maybe, we really don't have any clues to what the jade statues does or what their intention are (it seems destruction).

[Urizen]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Mar 26 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

Lots of allegories in that scene, I'm thinking that was the Otataral dragon, Togg and Fanderay and some KCCM.

If some of you super-sleuths have nay theories about that part, I'd love to hear 'em.

Can we be certain that the dragon was the Otataral Dragon? the OD was "just" crucified. Merely hanging around in a pocket dimension, if you will. The dragon we saw was bleeding out and in some other place.

[Obdigore]

Urizen, on Mar 26 2009, 07:27 AM, said:

Ain't_It_Just_, on Mar 26 2009, 11:21 AM, said:

Lots of allegories in that scene, I'm thinking that was the Otataral dragon, Togg and Fanderay and some KCCM.

If some of you super-sleuths have nay theories about that part, I'd love to hear 'em.

Can we be certain that the dragon was the Otataral Dragon? the OD was "just" crucified. Merely hanging around in a pocket dimension, if you will. The dragon we saw was bleeding out and in some other place.

I took that the one in the scene was still alive, while the Otataral Dragon was deceased.

Seems more to me that Heboric is now first sword of the jade statues and what they represent, which might be people attempting to escape the destruction of their world after the gods were imbalanced when the CG was forcibly removed.

I am of the opinion that the CG is going to find a purpose as the god of justice, which is what the world needs, and Heboric is going to carve his ghost-handed swath through many things.

[Sindriss]

And why do you think that Heboric is the first sword of the jade figures? To me it seems he has nothing to do with them, neither does he want to be involved.

[Lister of Smeg]

Obdigore, on Mar 26 2009, 06:15 PM, said:

I took that the one in the scene was still alive, while the Otataral Dragon was deceased.

Seems more to me that Heboric is now first sword of the jade statues and what they represent, which might be people attempting to escape the destruction of their world after the gods were imbalanced when the CG was forcibly removed.

I am of the opinion that the CG is going to find a purpose as the god of justice, which is what the world needs, and Heboric is going to carve his ghost-handed swath through many things.

Pearl mentions in HoC that the dragon is still alive, and he's glad whoever staked it was able to limit its influence. I'm fairly sure the dragon in this scene is the Otataral Dragon.

[Theotendo]

The need to be detached from religion and dogma is an old tac of Heboric's. He IS involved, whether he likes it, or not. The measure of his invlovement, I think, will have more to do with Fener's return to eminence or at the very least his last battle.

Has anyone considered WHY the short-tails murdered and crucified Sorrit and this new dragon? According to what I've read, they are fanatical about order. Slaves to machines (in a mental sense, rather than physical), while the dragons represent wild and unchained power. Power that, more often than not, serves to further Chaos.

[Obdigore]

Lister of Smeg, on Mar 26 2009, 02:00 PM, said:

Obdigore, on Mar 26 2009, 06:15 PM, said:

I took that the one in the scene was still alive, while the Otataral Dragon was deceased.

Seems more to me that Heboric is now first sword of the jade statues and what they represent, which might be people attempting to escape the destruction of their world after the gods were imbalanced when the CG was forcibly removed.

I am of the opinion that the CG is going to find a purpose as the god of justice, which is what the world needs, and Heboric is going to carve his ghost-handed swath through many things.

Pearl mentions in HoC that the dragon is still alive, and he's glad whoever staked it was able to limit its influence. I'm fairly sure the dragon in this scene is the Otataral Dragon.

I was mixing up Otataral and Sorrit.

The one found by Iccy and Mappo was staked with otataral in a skykeep (landed/crashed) and dead, was Sorrit, right?
The one Pearl and Lostara found in the realm of bones was the actual Otataral Dragon, with no name, right?

What if the skykeeps aren't machines, but harness the dragon's powers to fly and do the things they do?

What if that is why the elients attacked the KCCM cities they could find (as we learn from Mr. White Crow), because they were taking dragons, enslaving them, and forcing them to be their power sources?

[HoosierDaddy]

Which is why Matron is mad as a hatter: Otataral staked dragon is the focus of her power...

[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 26 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

Which is why Matron is mad as a hatter: Otataral staked dragon is the focus of her power...

I don't think she is mad. I think her minions think she is mad. She seems desperate to save her KCCM, which may be the last remnant of their people, from the coming war. This might very well include risks that shouldn't be taken.

Here is how I view the KCCM, and I see the video game roots here.

Each creature's 'score' can only add up to 100 - and the different 'stats' are the flavours.

So as the matron makes her minions, the assassins get more slightly more intelligence, and more agility/grace than the soldiers, who get mostly strength, but she certainly has the most intelligence, and might score higher than 100 ;P.

[HoosierDaddy]

Obdigore, on Mar 26 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 26 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

Which is why Matron is mad as a hatter: Otataral staked dragon is the focus of her power...

I don't think she is mad. I think her minions think she is mad. She seems desperate to save her KCCM, which may be the last remnant of their people, from the coming war. This might very well include risks that shouldn't be taken.

Here is how I view the KCCM, and I see the video game roots here.

Each creature's 'score' can only add up to 100 - and the different 'stats' are the flavours.

So as the matron makes her minions, the assassins get more slightly more intelligence, and more agility/grace than the soldiers, who get mostly strength, but she certainly has the most intelligence, and might score higher than 100 ;P.

Then what is the difference between grunt soldier and elite soldier? What is the elite soldier getting more of as opposed to the grunt and vice versa?

Also, the fact that K'ell can only last 1000 years (10 centuries?) and that others last longer, while the assassin K'chain can in theory outlive the Matron herself? Both the Destriant and one of her oldest servants say she is mad as a hatter. I see no reason to disagree at this point.

[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 26 2009, 02:28 PM, said:

Then what is the difference between grunt soldier and elite soldier? What is the elite soldier getting more of as opposed to the grunt and vice versa?

Also, the fact that K'ell can only last 1000 years (10 centuries?) and that others last longer, while the assassin K'chain can in theory outlive the Matron herself? Both the Destriant and one of her oldest servants say she is mad as a hatter. I see no reason to disagree at this point.

Kruppe is mad as a hatter too.

Her oldest servant said she is mad only because she is attempting to force upon her 'hive' the structure of the houses, which he dosen't think will work. What if it does, and she saves the KCCM race?

I can guarantee the destriant will find power once the other two positions get filled. I can pretty much guess that this train of refugee children was 15 years in the past and that the shield anvil is the boy carrying the baby and the first sword is the baby.

[HoosierDaddy]

Obdigore, on Mar 26 2009, 03:34 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 26 2009, 02:28 PM, said:

Then what is the difference between grunt soldier and elite soldier? What is the elite soldier getting more of as opposed to the grunt and vice versa?

Also, the fact that K'ell can only last 1000 years (10 centuries?) and that others last longer, while the assassin K'chain can in theory outlive the Matron herself? Both the Destriant and one of her oldest servants say she is mad as a hatter. I see no reason to disagree at this point.

Kruppe is mad as a hatter too.

Her oldest servant said she is mad only because she is attempting to force upon her 'hive' the structure of the houses, which he dosen't think will work. What if it does, and she saves the KCCM race?

I can guarantee the destriant will find power once the other two positions get filled. I can pretty much guess that this train of refugee children was 15 years in the past and that the shield anvil is the boy carrying the baby and the first sword is the baby.

That is very possible and very intriguing. Wouldn't they have gotten there by now though? But, on more pressing matters, the Mortal Sword hating the Shield-Anvil is an interesting dynamic, and it would make sense why the girl took the time to say that in the passage. That Held hate the holder, while the only thing the holder loved was Held.

[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 26 2009, 02:37 PM, said:

Obdigore, on Mar 26 2009, 03:34 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on Mar 26 2009, 02:28 PM, said:

Then what is the difference between grunt soldier and elite soldier? What is the elite soldier getting more of as opposed to the grunt and vice versa?

Also, the fact that K'ell can only last 1000 years (10 centuries?) and that others last longer, while the assassin K'chain can in theory outlive the Matron herself? Both the Destriant and one of her oldest servants say she is mad as a hatter. I see no reason to disagree at this point.

Kruppe is mad as a hatter too.

Her oldest servant said she is mad only because she is attempting to force upon her 'hive' the structure of the houses, which he dosen't think will work. What if it does, and she saves the KCCM race?

I can guarantee the destriant will find power once the other two positions get filled. I can pretty much guess that this train of refugee children was 15 years in the past and that the shield anvil is the boy carrying the baby and the first sword is the baby.

That is very possible and very intriguing. Wouldn't they have gotten there by now though? But, on more pressing matters, the Mortal Sword hating the Shield-Anvil is an interesting dynamic, and it would make sense why the girl took the time to say that in the passage. That Held hate the holder, while the only thing the holder loved was Held.

Because they are wandering around south of the city avoiding the ribbers and the (assumed Liosans, which I don't agree with) while reverting to a tribal style culture.

No, he was the 'head' of the snake. Nevermind the rest of this that I edited out.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 26 March 2009 - 07:44 PM

[Aptorian]

Okay, some of my views on this and other peoples suspicions.

The KCCM in the Heboric part of the Prologue are Short Tails, meaning they are not the same as the Long Tails we meet in the beginning of the prologue. They are most likely the threat that the Matron fears and they are why she is mass-spawning warrior lizards.

The dragon in the vision is not the Ottataral dragon. The ottataral dragon is chained, alive, not bleeding and bound in such a way that it is also starring into the sky. There might be some reason for this, like it is starring into the Abyss and its watching the approach of the Jadestatues.

The refugee snake line is taking place in present time as the KCCM have noticed the events but don't care.

[D'rek]

As far as the dragon and short-tail bit goes, there is a very, very simple answer. After the short-tails in tBH killed Ganath, they climbed down the cliff and one of them walked into the room and looked at Sorrit, crucified to his wooden timbers. And this is what Heboric saw. This explanation reveals absolutely nothing of how Sorrit got that way nor any potential linking of the short-tails with the dragons, but if there's a lot yet to be revealed about such links in the rest of the book, such a simplistic scene could still have a place in the prologue...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

That sounds possible...do you suppose the Short-Tails know about the last Matron on Lether?

[Lister of Smeg]

Except that Mappo and Icarium were certain that Sorrit was dead. I'd trust them not to make a mistake like that.