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Anybody who reveals as a finder is foolish to do so due to the lack of CF. We don't have a way of checking whether the find is true, so we have no way of telling whether it is a real or fake claim. Therefore, an innocent finder should not reveal, because it opens themselves up to being NKed, and we can't tell if it is true.
I don't understand how people can't see that the sensible thing for a finder to do is to make strong cases on those that flip guilty. They should be able to do this, and if not, well, then mafia isn't really the game for you.
Mafia 40.75 or is that 39.62?
#342
Rashan 
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:02 AM
Kessobahn, on Mar 10 2009, 09:37 AM, said:
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 04:29 AM, said:
driss pointed it out. One common tactic as scum is to hint at roles and not claim them thus people pi them in their mind, this read liek a reveal and has caused lots of confusion so is doing a good job of muddying the water. to dismiss it off hand when it isnt a hint but a blatant fish in the face is scummy and the subsequent jumping up and down of people is quite funny as it seems the game is split into two big groups. personally i dislike uncertainty in mafia, and a few days down the line we will be, why isnt korlat dead? and yet not do anything about it.
I have to disagree here, a common tactic is not to "hint" at being roled.
At least not in the way it would seem that korlat did it.
Hinting at being roled is never a good idea when being scum.
People first look for roled behaviour...THEN decide if they could be scum.
In any case, all of this has no bearing in this game, as killers most definitely dot want to look like they are roled as the other killer team will take them out asap.
which is why i am not voting for korlat but for silanah.
#343
Kessobahn
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:03 AM
Omtose, on Mar 10 2009, 04:56 AM, said:
Anybody who reveals as a finder is foolish to do so due to the lack of CF. We don't have a way of checking whether the find is true, so we have no way of telling whether it is a real or fake claim. Therefore, an innocent finder should not reveal, because it opens themselves up to being NKed, and we can't tell if it is true.
I don't understand how people can't see that the sensible thing for a finder to do is to make strong cases on those that flip guilty. They should be able to do this, and if not, well, then mafia isn't really the game for you.
I don't understand how people can't see that the sensible thing for a finder to do is to make strong cases on those that flip guilty. They should be able to do this, and if not, well, then mafia isn't really the game for you.
Well, i never once advocated that a finder SHOULD reveal.
But if there is a finder reveal, we cant just right it off.
There could be many reasons a finder in this situation decides to reveal.
Rashan seems to be wanting to discredit any finder reveal no matter what.
This is all i am trying to say.
Why discredit any finder reveal before it even happens?
Seems like some sort of smear campaign to forestall any finder reveal that might hurt him perhaps.
just something that stuck out to me is all...
#345
Emurlahn
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:04 AM
Kessobahn, on Mar 10 2009, 04:37 AM, said:
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 04:29 AM, said:
driss pointed it out. One common tactic as scum is to hint at roles and not claim them thus people pi them in their mind, this read liek a reveal and has caused lots of confusion so is doing a good job of muddying the water. to dismiss it off hand when it isnt a hint but a blatant fish in the face is scummy and the subsequent jumping up and down of people is quite funny as it seems the game is split into two big groups. personally i dislike uncertainty in mafia, and a few days down the line we will be, why isnt korlat dead? and yet not do anything about it.
I have to disagree here, a common tactic is not to "hint" at being roled.
At least not in the way it would seem that korlat did it.
Hinting at being roled is never a good idea when being scum.
People first look for roled behaviour...THEN decide if they could be scum.
In any case, all of this has no bearing in this game, as killers most definitely dot want to look like they are roled as the other killer team will take them out asap.
I agree with Kesso here. I don't see anyone wanting to hint at being a finder with 2 independent teams of scum.
I've already stated my view on the Finders, if someone reveals as Finder and found someone guilty then I think we'd have to go with it. It should be pretty easy to work out if they're lying or not and either way we know we've found scum.
As for D'riss if not much else comes up I will probably put my vote on him at the end of the day. We still have lots of time to see what comes up, i'm interested in hearing from Korlat again.
Just reading the last page or so, does anyone else get scummy vibes from Omtose? Just wondering if its just me.
#346
Mockra
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:08 AM
Omtose, on Mar 10 2009, 11:56 AM, said:
Anybody who reveals as a finder is foolish to do so due to the lack of CF. We don't have a way of checking whether the find is true, so we have no way of telling whether it is a real or fake claim. Therefore, an innocent finder should not reveal, because it opens themselves up to being NKed, and we can't tell if it is true.
I don't understand how people can't see that the sensible thing for a finder to do is to make strong cases on those that flip guilty. They should be able to do this, and if not, well, then mafia isn't really the game for you.
I don't understand how people can't see that the sensible thing for a finder to do is to make strong cases on those that flip guilty. They should be able to do this, and if not, well, then mafia isn't really the game for you.
Nice strong statement.
I agree with the first part. I also agree with the first line on the second part, but you are simplifying here. Because, you know, you always pick the guy on who the most info is already available for your find, or on whom you have more than a gutfeeling, or someone who did not play such a clean game that there's something very suspicious about it, but due to said cleanliness, you cannot make a case on...
And, naturally, your case will have such merit that it will get the other guy lynched and does not cause any suspicion on yourself as pushing for a lynch without CF - and it will also mean you have to play high profile throughout the game, instead of coming suddenly out of left field.
You're being sensible, Omtose, but it isn't an unrefutable law and hardly as easy as you make it seem.
#347
Korlat
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:12 AM
what is the matter with you people? Well, some of you anyways. Kaschan, especially, is being more than a bit purposeful in his absolute belief that my post was some sort of reveal (which no rational being should be able to read as a finder reveal. Unfortunately worded perhaps, but no finder reveal. Gawd). It's quite ridiculous..
It was not a reveal, the post itself should tell you that quite clearly, the time in the game should tell you that quite clearly, logic should tell you that quite clearly. Kaschan's claim that no one can trust me is not true unless it's accepted as fact that what I did was some kind of reveal and the person trying his best to get it accepted as such seems to be Kaschan. Repeating over and over again my post as a reveal in a certain tone.
And Rashan, your argument makes no sense in a game such as this. Hinting towards roles as blatantly as that is not a valid tactic, especially not in a non cf game with two killer teams. If I'd known people would get their panties tied in a knot over something as ridiculous as this I would've just used a phrase like "when hell freezes over" instead of "when obdi sends me a pm telling me you're scum" which would equally incorporate the meaning I sought to capture.
Anyways, this has been very informative nevertheless.
I am quite certain now that Anomandaris is a killer. I don't think the game would've caught quite the same momentum, nor do I think an inno would get as flustered over a bit of pressure as did he. Then there's the bloodthirsty comment too. Of all my choices, Anomandaris is the player of who's alignment I am as close to certain as I can be this early.
His companion I'm quite sure of, is Silanah, who's making an effort to be as far from Anomandaris' camp as possible. Galayn Lord made a very good point about Silanah's playing, defending me like that in a non-cf game is odd like hell, and considering how the game had split, he tried a third option that would, as I said, place him on the complete opposite side of the field from Anomandaris, more so than anyone else. Apart from that the two have stayed out of each others ways completely. Anomandaris is the visible one, Silanah a bit more withdrawn.
Kaschan is a symp. OF this I'm quite convinced and though people will think this WIFOM, I don't really care. Notice how he continues to insist posting about my reveal as if it was a certainty when clearly it is not. Again and again and again he does so, working very hard to cement me as someone who's lying at every turn and should be ignored. An innocent would not do this, but Kaschan does not give me a killer feel, ergo symp.
I'm not sure what team he belongs too – I assume the distribution is 2-1 2-1 killer-symp each team – but that's hardly very important.
So there you are. I'm keeping my vote for Anomandaris until we get a vote count. I'd be willing to switch for Silanah. D'riss however I'm not so convinced about.
It was not a reveal, the post itself should tell you that quite clearly, the time in the game should tell you that quite clearly, logic should tell you that quite clearly. Kaschan's claim that no one can trust me is not true unless it's accepted as fact that what I did was some kind of reveal and the person trying his best to get it accepted as such seems to be Kaschan. Repeating over and over again my post as a reveal in a certain tone.
And Rashan, your argument makes no sense in a game such as this. Hinting towards roles as blatantly as that is not a valid tactic, especially not in a non cf game with two killer teams. If I'd known people would get their panties tied in a knot over something as ridiculous as this I would've just used a phrase like "when hell freezes over" instead of "when obdi sends me a pm telling me you're scum" which would equally incorporate the meaning I sought to capture.
Anyways, this has been very informative nevertheless.
I am quite certain now that Anomandaris is a killer. I don't think the game would've caught quite the same momentum, nor do I think an inno would get as flustered over a bit of pressure as did he. Then there's the bloodthirsty comment too. Of all my choices, Anomandaris is the player of who's alignment I am as close to certain as I can be this early.
His companion I'm quite sure of, is Silanah, who's making an effort to be as far from Anomandaris' camp as possible. Galayn Lord made a very good point about Silanah's playing, defending me like that in a non-cf game is odd like hell, and considering how the game had split, he tried a third option that would, as I said, place him on the complete opposite side of the field from Anomandaris, more so than anyone else. Apart from that the two have stayed out of each others ways completely. Anomandaris is the visible one, Silanah a bit more withdrawn.
Kaschan is a symp. OF this I'm quite convinced and though people will think this WIFOM, I don't really care. Notice how he continues to insist posting about my reveal as if it was a certainty when clearly it is not. Again and again and again he does so, working very hard to cement me as someone who's lying at every turn and should be ignored. An innocent would not do this, but Kaschan does not give me a killer feel, ergo symp.
I'm not sure what team he belongs too – I assume the distribution is 2-1 2-1 killer-symp each team – but that's hardly very important.
So there you are. I'm keeping my vote for Anomandaris until we get a vote count. I'd be willing to switch for Silanah. D'riss however I'm not so convinced about.
#348
Mockra
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:13 AM
Emurlahn, on Mar 10 2009, 12:04 PM, said:
Kessobahn, on Mar 10 2009, 04:37 AM, said:
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 04:29 AM, said:
driss pointed it out. One common tactic as scum is to hint at roles and not claim them thus people pi them in their mind, this read liek a reveal and has caused lots of confusion so is doing a good job of muddying the water. to dismiss it off hand when it isnt a hint but a blatant fish in the face is scummy and the subsequent jumping up and down of people is quite funny as it seems the game is split into two big groups. personally i dislike uncertainty in mafia, and a few days down the line we will be, why isnt korlat dead? and yet not do anything about it.
I have to disagree here, a common tactic is not to "hint" at being roled.
At least not in the way it would seem that korlat did it.
Hinting at being roled is never a good idea when being scum.
People first look for roled behaviour...THEN decide if they could be scum.
In any case, all of this has no bearing in this game, as killers most definitely dot want to look like they are roled as the other killer team will take them out asap.
I agree with Kesso here. I don't see anyone wanting to hint at being a finder with 2 independent teams of scum.
I've already stated my view on the Finders, if someone reveals as Finder and found someone guilty then I think we'd have to go with it. It should be pretty easy to work out if they're lying or not and either way we know we've found scum.
As for D'riss if not much else comes up I will probably put my vote on him at the end of the day. We still have lots of time to see what comes up, i'm interested in hearing from Korlat again.
Just reading the last page or so, does anyone else get scummy vibes from Omtose? Just wondering if its just me.
Yes and no. They could be scum trying to force the inno roled ones out into the open by trying to make them play high profile, which ultimately benefits the killers as most of the time, finders will find inno's but they are already out and vocal, allowing others to lay back, and if killers love one thing, it's killing the leaders of the pack and leaving the sheep... two birds in one stone.
They could also be trying to put their view forward, which for now is my impression. * shrug * toss a coin, I haven't seen enough of them to get a real good or bad vibe from them, so I'll naively stick with the wishful thinking.
#349
Rashan
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:20 AM
Korlat, on Mar 10 2009, 10:12 AM, said:
what is the matter with you people? Well, some of you anyways. Kaschan, especially, is being more than a bit purposeful in his absolute belief that my post was some sort of reveal (which no rational being should be able to read as a finder reveal. Unfortunately worded perhaps, but no finder reveal. Gawd). It's quite ridiculous..
It was not a reveal, the post itself should tell you that quite clearly, the time in the game should tell you that quite clearly, logic should tell you that quite clearly. Kaschan's claim that no one can trust me is not true unless it's accepted as fact that what I did was some kind of reveal and the person trying his best to get it accepted as such seems to be Kaschan. Repeating over and over again my post as a reveal in a certain tone.
And Rashan, your argument makes no sense in a game such as this. Hinting towards roles as blatantly as that is not a valid tactic, especially not in a non cf game with two killer teams. If I'd known people would get their panties tied in a knot over something as ridiculous as this I would've just used a phrase like "when hell freezes over" instead of "when obdi sends me a pm telling me you're scum" which would equally incorporate the meaning I sought to capture.
Anyways, this has been very informative nevertheless.
I am quite certain now that Anomandaris is a killer. I don't think the game would've caught quite the same momentum, nor do I think an inno would get as flustered over a bit of pressure as did he. Then there's the bloodthirsty comment too. Of all my choices, Anomandaris is the player of who's alignment I am as close to certain as I can be this early.
His companion I'm quite sure of, is Silanah, who's making an effort to be as far from Anomandaris' camp as possible. Galayn Lord made a very good point about Silanah's playing, defending me like that in a non-cf game is odd like hell, and considering how the game had split, he tried a third option that would, as I said, place him on the complete opposite side of the field from Anomandaris, more so than anyone else. Apart from that the two have stayed out of each others ways completely. Anomandaris is the visible one, Silanah a bit more withdrawn.
Kaschan is a symp. OF this I'm quite convinced and though people will think this WIFOM, I don't really care. Notice how he continues to insist posting about my reveal as if it was a certainty when clearly it is not. Again and again and again he does so, working very hard to cement me as someone who's lying at every turn and should be ignored. An innocent would not do this, but Kaschan does not give me a killer feel, ergo symp.
I'm not sure what team he belongs too – I assume the distribution is 2-1 2-1 killer-symp each team – but that's hardly very important.
So there you are. I'm keeping my vote for Anomandaris until we get a vote count. I'd be willing to switch for Silanah. D'riss however I'm not so convinced about.
It was not a reveal, the post itself should tell you that quite clearly, the time in the game should tell you that quite clearly, logic should tell you that quite clearly. Kaschan's claim that no one can trust me is not true unless it's accepted as fact that what I did was some kind of reveal and the person trying his best to get it accepted as such seems to be Kaschan. Repeating over and over again my post as a reveal in a certain tone.
And Rashan, your argument makes no sense in a game such as this. Hinting towards roles as blatantly as that is not a valid tactic, especially not in a non cf game with two killer teams. If I'd known people would get their panties tied in a knot over something as ridiculous as this I would've just used a phrase like "when hell freezes over" instead of "when obdi sends me a pm telling me you're scum" which would equally incorporate the meaning I sought to capture.
Anyways, this has been very informative nevertheless.
I am quite certain now that Anomandaris is a killer. I don't think the game would've caught quite the same momentum, nor do I think an inno would get as flustered over a bit of pressure as did he. Then there's the bloodthirsty comment too. Of all my choices, Anomandaris is the player of who's alignment I am as close to certain as I can be this early.
His companion I'm quite sure of, is Silanah, who's making an effort to be as far from Anomandaris' camp as possible. Galayn Lord made a very good point about Silanah's playing, defending me like that in a non-cf game is odd like hell, and considering how the game had split, he tried a third option that would, as I said, place him on the complete opposite side of the field from Anomandaris, more so than anyone else. Apart from that the two have stayed out of each others ways completely. Anomandaris is the visible one, Silanah a bit more withdrawn.
Kaschan is a symp. OF this I'm quite convinced and though people will think this WIFOM, I don't really care. Notice how he continues to insist posting about my reveal as if it was a certainty when clearly it is not. Again and again and again he does so, working very hard to cement me as someone who's lying at every turn and should be ignored. An innocent would not do this, but Kaschan does not give me a killer feel, ergo symp.
I'm not sure what team he belongs too – I assume the distribution is 2-1 2-1 killer-symp each team – but that's hardly very important.
So there you are. I'm keeping my vote for Anomandaris until we get a vote count. I'd be willing to switch for Silanah. D'riss however I'm not so convinced about.
i am starting to worry that people simple do not know how to read on this board. If i believed yours was an actual hint at a role i would have voted for you because keeping you around would be foolish. That so many people are happy to discuss possible tactics for killers is wonderful and very enlightening but it is also frankly ridiculous to respond a statement about one player and draw on everything but that statements purpose.
for those with reading problems.
Korlat didnt reveal, but made a joke.
driss, taking this as a fake reveal called him out.
silanah claimed this was scummy because only innos would hint at roles.
I LEFT my vote on silanah as they are possibly fake symping korlat and stating things i fundamentally disagree with.
The fact that you all think you are so smart and want to tell me how to play is admirable, but rest assured i have one or two games under my belt and dont need any hints or tips on how to play thanks very much.
#350
Korlat
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:23 AM
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 12:20 PM, said:
i am starting to worry that people simple do not know how to read on this board. If i believed yours was an actual hint at a role i would have voted for you because keeping you around would be foolish. That so many people are happy to discuss possible tactics for killers is wonderful and very enlightening but it is also frankly ridiculous to respond a statement about one player and draw on everything but that statements purpose.
for those with reading problems.
Korlat didnt reveal, but made a joke.
driss, taking this as a fake reveal called him out.
silanah claimed this was scummy because only innos would hint at roles.
I LEFT my vote on silanah as they are possibly fake symping korlat and stating things i fundamentally disagree with.
The fact that you all think you are so smart and want to tell me how to play is admirable, but rest assured i have one or two games under my belt and dont need any hints or tips on how to play thanks very much.
for those with reading problems.
Korlat didnt reveal, but made a joke.
driss, taking this as a fake reveal called him out.
silanah claimed this was scummy because only innos would hint at roles.
I LEFT my vote on silanah as they are possibly fake symping korlat and stating things i fundamentally disagree with.
The fact that you all think you are so smart and want to tell me how to play is admirable, but rest assured i have one or two games under my belt and dont need any hints or tips on how to play thanks very much.
Surely this can be nothing new. I always tell you what to do. IT hasn't worked yet but one day you will come around and give me all that I desire.
Sorry about the reading, I was in a bad mood and read through the thread quicker than I should. My apologies. But again, I don't feel that In this instance tried to tell you what to do. I disagreed with what I thought you said but surely that's legitimate.
edit: ah yes, the panties in a knot comment at the end of the paragraph was not meant to be for you, I guess it can be misunderstood.
This post has been edited by Korlat: 10 March 2009 - 10:24 AM
#352
Mockra
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:33 AM
Kessobahn, on Mar 10 2009, 01:26 PM, said:
@ mockra
I think that the fact that there is a 2 killer teams out there looking for roles will not make anybody hint at being roled, even more so for the killers.
I think that the fact that there is a 2 killer teams out there looking for roles will not make anybody hint at being roled, even more so for the killers.
One killer team or two, it's just as lethal when they get you
, so for playstyle & security measures roled innos need to take, it shouldn't make any difference. The difference is for me at this stage mostly that we have a chance at killers finishing each other, and them having twice as many eyes/brains at their disposal, so allowing less to slip through the cracks. And, of course, making it a tad harder to spot them as their defenses will not be uniformly.
I'll let Rashan's post slide by without further comment as I knew exactly what Korlat & D'riss were stating and agree with him on how to read it.
#353
Rashan
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:36 AM
Korlat, on Mar 10 2009, 10:23 AM, said:
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 12:20 PM, said:
i am starting to worry that people simple do not know how to read on this board. If i believed yours was an actual hint at a role i would have voted for you because keeping you around would be foolish. That so many people are happy to discuss possible tactics for killers is wonderful and very enlightening but it is also frankly ridiculous to respond a statement about one player and draw on everything but that statements purpose.
for those with reading problems.
Korlat didnt reveal, but made a joke.
driss, taking this as a fake reveal called him out.
silanah claimed this was scummy because only innos would hint at roles.
I LEFT my vote on silanah as they are possibly fake symping korlat and stating things i fundamentally disagree with.
The fact that you all think you are so smart and want to tell me how to play is admirable, but rest assured i have one or two games under my belt and dont need any hints or tips on how to play thanks very much.
for those with reading problems.
Korlat didnt reveal, but made a joke.
driss, taking this as a fake reveal called him out.
silanah claimed this was scummy because only innos would hint at roles.
I LEFT my vote on silanah as they are possibly fake symping korlat and stating things i fundamentally disagree with.
The fact that you all think you are so smart and want to tell me how to play is admirable, but rest assured i have one or two games under my belt and dont need any hints or tips on how to play thanks very much.
Surely this can be nothing new. I always tell you what to do. IT hasn't worked yet but one day you will come around and give me all that I desire.
Sorry about the reading, I was in a bad mood and read through the thread quicker than I should. My apologies. But again, I don't feel that In this instance tried to tell you what to do. I disagreed with what I thought you said but surely that's legitimate.
edit: ah yes, the panties in a knot comment at the end of the paragraph was not meant to be for you, I guess it can be misunderstood.
tbh i only read the bit about me
#357
Rashan
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:45 AM
Kessobahn, on Mar 10 2009, 10:40 AM, said:
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 05:36 AM, said:
tbh i only read the bit about me
Why?
You dont care he has to say about anyone else?
Seems like self preservation is all you have on your mind...hmmmm.
given who he is, no not really. but on a more serious note, i am busy and have said my piece, unliek the rest of you i dont intend to talk complete crap about every little thing on thread even when it has no relevance to finding scum. if i see something i find interesting i will highlight it. as for self preservation, keep talking kesso i may eventually get round to noticign you yet.
#358
Korlat
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:47 AM
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 12:45 PM, said:
Kessobahn, on Mar 10 2009, 10:40 AM, said:
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 05:36 AM, said:
tbh i only read the bit about me
Why?
You dont care he has to say about anyone else?
Seems like self preservation is all you have on your mind...hmmmm.
given who he is, no not really. but on a more serious note, i am busy and have said my piece, unliek the rest of you i dont intend to talk complete crap about every little thing on thread even when it has no relevance to finding scum. if i see something i find interesting i will highlight it. as for self preservation, keep talking kesso i may eventually get round to noticign you yet.
so you have nothing to say in regards to my interpretation of the game? About my opinions regarding anomandaris, Silanah and Kaschan?
#359
Rashan
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:50 AM
to say - well i think silanah could be a symp, ano could be a killer and kaschan may be a symp, but that doesnt mean you are not. You knew what you were doing when you made that joke, so you are actively spreading confusion around so there is a good possibility that you are a symp as well. As far as your opinion goes and my opinion on it, nope, nothing much to say, i have stated my opinion and you can read it for yourself. as far as entering discourse with you about all your suspicions, well i aint that interested as i dont trust you.
no hard feelings
no hard feelings
#360
Korlat
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:53 AM
Rashan, on Mar 10 2009, 12:50 PM, said:
to say - well i think silanah could be a symp, ano could be a killer and kaschan may be a symp, but that doesnt mean you are not. You knew what you were doing when you made that joke, so you are actively spreading confusion around so there is a good possibility that you are a symp as well. As far as your opinion goes and my opinion on it, nope, nothing much to say, i have stated my opinion and you can read it for yourself. as far as entering discourse with you about all your suspicions, well i aint that interested as i dont trust you.
no hard feelings
no hard feelings
No offense taken. Aye, Silanah could be a symp.. I guess it would fit better, I'd just like it better if he was a killer. If Anno could be a killer while Silanah only a symp in your mind, why do you not vote for Anno?
