[The Dark Wanderer]

Just re-reading the end of BH right now and in it there is a reference to Kalam getting from Herald of Death to Oblesik via King of High House Shadow (jn Fiddlers game in case anyone got confused). At the end of the scene there's a mention that it's an inactive version of the Herald of Death, now is it just me or is that Toc? and does anyone know what the hell that might mean for Kalam/Toc/story in general?

(if a Mod feels this is better suited to the forthcoming books then I'll understand).

[Lisheo]

No, it's fine where it is Basically, it works like this. A position in a reading is not quite the same as a position in the actual deck. So, the readings use the cards to essentially tell the future, but the cards can still be ocuppied in the world by someone else.

[Aptorian]

Well the whole from death to Obelisk via shadow thing is of course a premonition of what happened to Kalam later. The death card you can either interpret as Kalm being the death bringer to Claws or, more likely, that Kalam may die. Shadow is of course ST aiding Kalam when he is poisoned and helping him into the Azath that is represented by Obelisk.

Regarding Herald of Death... I don't know. At that point Toc was around the world and still a year away from dying and becoming herald. Most likely it's something less obvious.

[The Dark Wanderer]

Yes, yes I know, but it just seemed weird to me that the point was specifically made that it was an inactive version of the Herald of Death and i couldn't see what was so important about that fact until I releaised that High House Death is inactive at the end of TtH. Plus I did originally read it as referring to the rampage through the city and Shadowthrone taking Kalam to the Deadhouse (azath) so possibly Oblesik, but maybe I'm just giving SE too much credit.

[Sinisdar Toste]

perhaps the inaciveness of the card did indeed mean that kalam would be spared while murdering more than his share of claw? as in the card was not acting on him

[D'rek]

Kalam didn't actually die but went through the motions, more or less, and also everyone thinks he did die. That works as 'inactive HoD' for me...

[Abyss]

I don't have the book handy, but i wondered whether the 'inactive Herald of Death' thing as a ref to Gethol, who used to be the Herald of Death, now working with the House of Chains, mindfucking Tene Baralta. There is one scene where Tene hears voices. It's pure speculation however.

Another interpretation is that the reading foretells Kalam being taken out of play at the end of TB, so to speak - Kalam is from 7C and back in DG it was him iirc who notes that the Obelisk card is inactive on 7C (tho it wasn't in that case because Icarium had shown up).

And to reiterate Lisheo's point, A position in a reading is not the same as a position in the actual pantheon - The Rope is still the Rope even if a reading turns up his card in ref to another assassin, say, Kalam in HoC by example.


- Abyss, prefers credit cards.

[D'rek]

 Abyss, on Feb 24 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

I don't have the book handy, but i wondered whether the 'inactive Herald of Death' thing as a ref to Gethol, who used to be the Herald of Death, now working with the House of Chains, mindfucking Tene Baralta. There is one scene where Tene hears voices. It's pure speculation however.

Yeah, but that scene where Tene talks to Gethol is much earlier when they're in the boats. Gethol doesn't appear to have any influence on tBH events following Fid's game...

 Abyss, on Feb 24 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

Another interpretation is that the reading foretells Kalam being taken out of play at the end of TB, so to speak - Kalam is from 7C and back in DG it was him iirc who notes that the Obelisk card is inactive on 7C (tho it wasn't in that case because Icarium had shown up).

But they were in Quon Tali, not 7C...

[beru]

yes they were... (that reading is in dhg in the fort after the chiggerflea swarm when kalam triks the comander of the fort by saing he is a clawmaster)

[Abyss]

 D'rek, on Feb 24 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

 Abyss, on Feb 24 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

I don't have the book handy, but i wondered whether the 'inactive Herald of Death' thing as a ref to Gethol, who used to be the Herald of Death, now working with the House of Chains, mindfucking Tene Baralta. There is one scene where Tene hears voices. It's pure speculation however.

Yeah, but that scene where Tene talks to Gethol is much earlier when they're in the boats. Gethol doesn't appear to have any influence on tBH events following Fid's game...

The way i took it, Baralta was still acting bugnuts, so gethol's influence was still in play, so to speak, but he was keeping himself hidden.

Quote

 Abyss, on Feb 24 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

Another interpretation is that the reading foretells Kalam being taken out of play at the end of TB, so to speak - Kalam is from 7C and back in DG it was him iirc who notes that the Obelisk card is inactive on 7C (tho it wasn't in that case because Icarium had shown up).

But they were in Quon Tali, not 7C...

 beru, on Feb 25 2009, 06:42 AM, said:

yes they were... (that reading is in dhg in the fort after the chiggerflea swarm when kalam triks the comander of the fort by saing he is a clawmaster)

Beru is right about the earlier eeading but i think Drek meant the TB reading on the Silanah, which is also right, but my point was that a link to a card that is inactive in his home continent fortells Kalam himself becoming inactive.

There could be something deeper there, but those two readings were always linked in my head because of Kalam's involvement.


- Abyss, a card.