[coltainereborn]

My god, i'd almost forgotten completely about GRRM's books, I stopped looking for new ones like a year ago since that last volume just wouldn't appear. Same thing with Robert Jordan, did he just decide he was never going to finish that sereis, since he's at like twelve books and counting and doesnt' seem to be approaching an end. OH well, just gives me more time to read SE and spend too much time on this forum

[MecnunK]

Ahh well, yes where Robesrt Jordan is concerned , he has indeed approached his end.

[Werthead]

Quote

Ahh well, yes where Robesrt Jordan is concerned , he has indeed approached his end.

Which hasn't stopped Book 12 being finished and scheduled for release in November

Quote

Guess I was a gullible sucker for believing ADWD was already finished at the time of release of the very mediocre AFFC.

Can you be gullible for believing something that no-one ever said? GRRM went out of his way to say that ADWD was not finished at the time AFFC came out, even putting it in the note in the back of the book. He did say the book could be out in a year, which was obviously guff, but he never claimed that Book 5 was ready to go the second Book 4 came out.

[QuickTidal]

Martin clearly stated in May of 2005 in a post about splitting AFFC and ADWD that a ADWD was half done. This may have been true, but one year later (in Jan 2006) it was.....still only half done. It really makes me wonder what he did during that year. We are four and a half years from the post in May of 2005 and I bet you it's only three quarters done. Bah.

[wolf_2099]

QuickTidal, on Jun 11 2009, 05:53 PM, said:

Martin clearly stated in May of 2005 in a post about splitting AFFC and ADWD that a ADWD was half done. This may have been true, but one year later (in Jan 2006) it was.....still only half done. It really makes me wonder what he did during that year. We are four and a half years from the post in May of 2005 and I bet you it's only three quarters done. Bah.

I'm sick of these posts. Do a little research. Read this thread.

Martin decided to re-write ADWD, the half he had done is ill relevant. Yes, it has taken him a long as time, however, the book he had half done was effectivly trashed and started again.

Werthead can correct me if I am wrong, but partly so the huge cliffhangers from AFFC weren't left dangling for 8 or 10 years, no?

[Werthead]

Quote

Martin clearly stated in May of 2005 in a post about splitting AFFC and ADWD that a ADWD was half done. This may have been true, but one year later (in Jan 2006) it was.....still only half done. It really makes me wonder what he did during that year. We are four and a half years from the post in May of 2005 and I bet you it's only three quarters done. Bah.

He spent June-August on copy/line editing for AFFC before it went to print, then October-February on a signing tour of Europe, the USA and Canada.

To be honest it was insanely over-optimistic of GRRM to think he could get the book done in a year when he only had a few months to work on it, and then decided to rewrite most of the chapters he had left over from AFFC, which put him back to square one. It was also not a good idea for his publishers to let him put that note in the back of AFFC given the delays on that book as well.

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Werthead can correct me if I am wrong, but partly so the huge cliffhangers from AFFC weren't left dangling for 8 or 10 years, no?

Partly, yes. I wouldn't be holding my breath for any Cersei/Jaime/Brienne chapters in ADWD though. I suspect if they do appear it will be in an epilogue which quickly catches up with each AFFC POV. It is quite possible that they won't appear at all.

[Urb]

Werthead, on Jun 12 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

Partly, yes. I wouldn't be holding my breath for any Cersei/Jaime/

Spoiler

Brienne

chapters in ADWD though. I suspect if they do appear it will be in an epilogue which quickly catches up with each AFFC POV. It is quite possible that they won't appear at all.

So she's not dead. SPOILER!!!


I kind of guessed it would turn out that way though...

[Gothos]

personally I wouldn't want him to get disinterested and not ever finish aSoIaF. it's a great series and I really can't wait to see the next part.
blackmouthing the author for taking too long is barbaric though. it's gonna be ready when it's ready. I'm getting the Duke Nukem Forever feeling here tho.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Urb, on Jun 12 2009, 02:42 PM, said:

Werthead, on Jun 12 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

Partly, yes. I wouldn't be holding my breath for any Cersei/Jaime/

Spoiler

Brienne

chapters in ADWD though. I suspect if they do appear it will be in an epilogue which quickly catches up with each AFFC POV. It is quite possible that they won't appear at all.

So she's not dead. SPOILER!!!


I kind of guessed it would turn out that way though...

We actually don't know. Her last chapter in AFFC leaves it open. There are the same possibilities for her to be dead or not

[Werthead]

We don't know if she's dead or not. I'm guessing not, because if she is it will have made A FEAST FOR CROWS a massive 800-page exercise in gross futility.

Interesting news from the casting for the TV series. Apparently the hopefuls auditioning for Theon and Jon have been told they'd be needed for Season 4, which has strengthened the theory that the producers are planning to combine Books 4 and 5 into one season. If that is the case, GRRM needs to pull his finger out and get on with it. He may only have three years from when the series debuts to get Book 6 out and then only one to do Book 7. Owch.

[QuickTidal]

wolf_2099, on Jun 12 2009, 01:07 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on Jun 11 2009, 05:53 PM, said:

Martin clearly stated in May of 2005 in a post about splitting AFFC and ADWD that a ADWD was half done. This may have been true, but one year later (in Jan 2006) it was.....still only half done. It really makes me wonder what he did during that year. We are four and a half years from the post in May of 2005 and I bet you it's only three quarters done. Bah.

I'm sick of these posts. Do a little research. Read this thread.

Martin decided to re-write ADWD, the half he had done is ill relevant. Yes, it has taken him a long as time, however, the book he had half done was effectivly trashed and started again.

Werthead can correct me if I am wrong, but partly so the huge cliffhangers from AFFC weren't left dangling for 8 or 10 years, no?

Alright bub, take it down a notch. I'm going to say this once more for the hearing "effing" impaired....k?

WHAT I SAID IS NO LESS TRUE...it is NOT irrelevant (or ill relevant as you seem to think it is spelled). He made a claim to his readers......and four and half years later no book......that he chose to re-write that half (and subsequently the whole book) is neither here nor there in reference to what I said above.

I did read the thread boyo, and and I know he did that (rewrote)....my point was that he talks and talks and talks, when what he should have done is kept his goddamn yap shut to begin with and not talked about how much was done or not done. That way, when he decided to dump the bit he had done, his readers wouldn't have had as much reason to bitch about it.

When you ask OTHER authors when the next book in a series is coming out...what do they normally say? Something along the lines of," I am hard at work at it and hope to get it completed soon". Very rarely do you hear about an author saying, it's THIS far done and will hopefully therefore be out next year....unless they've handed the manuscript to the publisher...or they keep track of completion on purpose like Sanderson has been doing with the last WOT book. The only other time you hear that sort of info is if it has been delayed to to personal strife to the author, ala Patrick Rothfuss, or Scott Lynch.

So before you spout off saying you are sick of these posts, understand that I DID read the thread and I DO know he ditched what he had written..and that I was making a comment on his "claims" full-stop.

As an aside: I am starting to dislike Martin as a person. On his blog....a few weeks after openly blowing the ending of Battlestar Galactica in a blog post (Thanks ass-clown! Those of us who haven't watched the finale yet and are still catching up are pleased by your lack of discretion)...he pisses all over the new Star Trek movie because and I quote "The writing sucks from start to finish"....REALLY George? Are you serious? The writing in that Star Trek movie was leaps and bounds ahead of most of the others. Then he talks about it pissing on continuity...hey George.....what happened in the first 5 minutes effectively clears the way to do whatever they like now, and I for one thought that was part of what made it fresh....none of the characters had to be stuck to be their rigid established selves...there was room to grow.

Sigh, I am starting to think he's just an ass, and he enjoys being that way, not only in general, but to his fans as well.

[Werthead]

Quote

WHAT I SAID IS NO LESS TRUE...it is NOT irrelevant (or ill relevant as you seem to think it is spelled). He made a claim to his readers......and four and half years later no book......that he chose to re-write that half (and subsequently the whole book) is neither here nor there in reference to what I said above.

I'm confused on this point. How is it irrelevant? He said he hoped to put the next book out a year later, using the pages he had left over from AFFC to jump-start that process, then realised if he did that the book would suck. So they went out the window and he started again.

Whenever people go on about this point I can only conclude that they actively wanted a book that was going to be rubbish, as long as it came out fast.

Quote

When you ask OTHER authors when the next book in a series is coming out...what do they normally say? Something along the lines of," I am hard at work at it and hope to get it completed soon". Very rarely do you hear about an author saying, it's THIS far done and will hopefully therefore be out next year....unless they've handed the manuscript to the publisher...or they keep track of completion on purpose like Sanderson has been doing with the last WOT book. The only other time you hear that sort of info is if it has been delayed to to personal strife to the author, ala Patrick Rothfuss, or Scott Lynch.

No, they quite often say when they expect the next book to come out. Abercrombie is only a few chapters into writing his fifth book but has already been saying it should come out in late 2010. Donaldson gave out a schedule for his Last Chronicles quartet (2004, 2007, 2010, 2013) before Book 1 even came out. Quite frequently, they are wrong.

Quote

As an aside: I am starting to dislike Martin as a person. On his blog....a few weeks after openly blowing the ending of Battlestar Galactica in a blog post (Thanks ass-clown! Those of us who haven't watched the finale yet and are still catching up are pleased by your lack of discretion)...he pisses all over the new Star Trek movie because and I quote "The writing sucks from start to finish"....REALLY George? Are you serious? The writing in that Star Trek movie was leaps and bounds ahead of most of the others. Then he talks about it pissing on continuity...hey George.....what happened in the first 5 minutes effectively clears the way to do whatever they like now, and I for one thought that was part of what made it fresh....none of the characters had to be stuck to be their rigid established selves...there was room to grow.

Agreed on the BSG point, that was highly unwise. For an author with as many, if not more, fans outside the US than in it, he seems to sometimes forget that the rest of the world doesn't get TV shows or movies as fast as the US does, and even when it does a lot of people are holding out for the DVDs or something. Still, he was right, the end of BSG was a horredous and ill-thought-out mess.

Also, the writing in the new Star Trek movie does blow. The casting is great, there's some good action, but character motivation is ill-established and story and plot coherence is severely lacking. For a brainless popcorn flick it did the job, but I usually expect more from Trek and more from JJ Abrams, who is a reasonably intelligent guy.

[QuickTidal]

Werthead, on Jun 14 2009, 07:00 AM, said:

Quote

WHAT I SAID IS NO LESS TRUE...it is NOT irrelevant (or ill relevant as you seem to think it is spelled). He made a claim to his readers......and four and half years later no book......that he chose to re-write that half (and subsequently the whole book) is neither here nor there in reference to what I said above.

I'm confused on this point. How is it irrelevant? He said he hoped to put the next book out a year later, using the pages he had left over from AFFC to jump-start that process, then realised if he did that the book would suck. So they went out the window and he started again.

Whenever people go on about this point I can only conclude that they actively wanted a book that was going to be rubbish, as long as it came out fast.

Quote

When you ask OTHER authors when the next book in a series is coming out...what do they normally say? Something along the lines of," I am hard at work at it and hope to get it completed soon". Very rarely do you hear about an author saying, it's THIS far done and will hopefully therefore be out next year....unless they've handed the manuscript to the publisher...or they keep track of completion on purpose like Sanderson has been doing with the last WOT book. The only other time you hear that sort of info is if it has been delayed to to personal strife to the author, ala Patrick Rothfuss, or Scott Lynch.

No, they quite often say when they expect the next book to come out. Abercrombie is only a few chapters into writing his fifth book but has already been saying it should come out in late 2010. Donaldson gave out a schedule for his Last Chronicles quartet (2004, 2007, 2010, 2013) before Book 1 even came out. Quite frequently, they are wrong.

Quote

As an aside: I am starting to dislike Martin as a person. On his blog....a few weeks after openly blowing the ending of Battlestar Galactica in a blog post (Thanks ass-clown! Those of us who haven't watched the finale yet and are still catching up are pleased by your lack of discretion)...he pisses all over the new Star Trek movie because and I quote "The writing sucks from start to finish"....REALLY George? Are you serious? The writing in that Star Trek movie was leaps and bounds ahead of most of the others. Then he talks about it pissing on continuity...hey George.....what happened in the first 5 minutes effectively clears the way to do whatever they like now, and I for one thought that was part of what made it fresh....none of the characters had to be stuck to be their rigid established selves...there was room to grow.

Agreed on the BSG point, that was highly unwise. For an author with as many, if not more, fans outside the US than in it, he seems to sometimes forget that the rest of the world doesn't get TV shows or movies as fast as the US does, and even when it does a lot of people are holding out for the DVDs or something. Still, he was right, the end of BSG was a horredous and ill-thought-out mess.

Also, the writing in the new Star Trek movie does blow. The casting is great, there's some good action, but character motivation is ill-established and story and plot coherence is severely lacking. For a brainless popcorn flick it did the job, but I usually expect more from Trek and more from JJ Abrams, who is a reasonably intelligent guy.

I think it is relevant when speaking about the man's claims in the past....that's why.

Do you want to know what though? Abercrombie will deliver on his promise....I'd lay down money on that. The guy is a better author. Howver, for the amount of authors who say that, there are three times as many who use discretion.

Dude, what Star Trek were you watching. I liked how fresh the script was for the new one. JJ never let's me down yet. Also, the guys who wrote Star Trek wrote Transformers and haven't let me down yet.

[Cougar]

Play nice.

I wonder if people would feel less anger if the things he did instead of writing weren't so obvious?

Or if he just said 'look I'm really stuggling to finish the book because I'm having a bit of a dry period'

These two things are what antagonise people I think that seems straight forward enough. It's manifest that he's not trying that hard to finish it from the amount of other things he does instead which is his prerogative, but it puzzles me when he gets all upset because people are pissed off at him.

[QuickTidal]

Cougar, on Jun 15 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

Play nice.

I wonder if people would feel less anger if the things he did instead of writing weren't so obvious?

Or if he just said 'look I'm really stuggling to finish the book because I'm having a bit of a dry period'

These two things are what antagonise people I think that seems straight forward enough. It's manifest that he's not trying that hard to finish it from the amount of other things he does instead which is his prerogative, but it puzzles me when he gets all upset because people are pissed off at him.

I think you've got a point there...

[Slow Ben]

Yeah, you do make a good point Cougar. I check his website every once in a while to see if their is any updates and it was just full of him talking about his new miniatures and his comic. And he can do that all he wants, its his life. But that doesnt mean its not gonna piss of his fans either. But he doesnt seem to get that.

[Aptorian]

Slow Ben, on Jun 16 2009, 01:13 AM, said:

But he doesnt seem to get that.

I think its more a case of it being his blog and he'll post what ever he wants there. It's a blog about his interests and what ever he's up to at that moment and feels like sharing. It's not about ASOIAF solely.

I go back and forth on the subject, but currently I would find it funny if he just scrapped the series and went FU fanboys! Of course then he would get sued to hell by the publisher, but still... it would be awesome.

[polishgenius]

Some of the complaints in this topic are completely redundant. I don't know where the idea comes from that he should admit that he's struggling, because he repeatedly and continuously done that. Him not updating the book regularly on the blog comes from the fact that when he used to (and he did) he got a new shitstorm with every announcement, whereas this way it's more one continuous one, which I imagine is easier to manage.

[Abyss]

I imagine that the fact that he's not hand carving the miniatures, personally directing the tv show, colouring the picturebooks or actually writing every page of every anthology he refers to is probably lost on a large chunk of the internut.

These are the same people who actually do send him emails complaining about how long he's taking, as though that somehow makes a difference. (the fact that many of these same people are emotionally wound up in who wins AMERICAN IDOL is no coincidence).

- Abyss, still prefers to wait longer for a better product than read crap.

[Yellow]

Aye, well. As long as the next book is good, he's laughing. If it's shit, it will get five times worse for him next time. My point is that he needs to deal with the pressure a bit better, or he'll really be struggling for the next one.