[Excellence]

Like his Sandor or hate his Sansa, there's no excuse for attacking someone for your own impatience.

People have feelings.

Period.

[Jumpy]

Excellence, on Apr 12 2009, 08:51 PM, said:

Like his Sandor or hate his Sansa, there's no excuse for attacking someone for your own impatience.

People have feelings.

Period.

I love Sandor.

I hate Sansa.

I love aSoIaF, so I don't care if I have to wait. No biggie. George will make it good, all of you unbelivers.

Fear not.

AND, one other thing -- why don't we start a thread on how awesome aSoIaF is, instead of QQing about it. I coul talk about those books for days. RE-READ COMING UP!

[Excellence]

Just saw on his blog, his old friend Howard Waldrop is co-writing the rest of the series with him, Dance included.

[Dr Trouble]

Excellence, on Apr 13 2009, 10:31 AM, said:

Just saw on his blog, his old friend Howard Waldrop is co-writing the rest of the series with him, Dance included.

Welcome to 13 days ago bro, try the fools punch.

[Mentalist]

old, old, April Fool's joke.

[Yellow]

Other, on Apr 13 2009, 03:49 AM, said:

Excellence, on Apr 13 2009, 10:31 AM, said:

Just saw on his blog, his old friend Howard Waldrop is co-writing the rest of the series with him, Dance included.

Welcome to 13 days ago bro, try the fools punch.

Hahahaha.

Martin owes me nothing... but damn, I like to watch him squirm! Seriously, the guy does himself absolutely no favours whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder if he actually enjoys all of this negative attention, because his blog posts seem almost designed to aggravate all the people he says he's sick of hearing from.

I enjoy reading that Finish The Book, George blog. The guys (or guy?) go way over the top with the fat jokes, but damn. Ray Liotta and Joe Pesci blogging about A Song of Ice and Fire? That's just comedy genius.

[Slum]

Yellow, on Apr 13 2009, 03:33 AM, said:

Other, on Apr 13 2009, 03:49 AM, said:

Excellence, on Apr 13 2009, 10:31 AM, said:

Just saw on his blog, his old friend Howard Waldrop is co-writing the rest of the series with him, Dance included.

Welcome to 13 days ago bro, try the fools punch.

Hahahaha.

Martin owes me nothing... but damn, I like to watch him squirm! Seriously, the guy does himself absolutely no favours whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder if he actually enjoys all of this negative attention, because his blog posts seem almost designed to aggravate all the people he says he's sick of hearing from.

I enjoy reading that Finish The Book, George blog. The guys (or guy?) go way over the top with the fat jokes, but damn. Ray Liotta and Joe Pesci blogging about A Song of Ice and Fire? That's just comedy genius.

Oh my! Thanks for tipping me off to that, Yellow. Finish the Book, George! Quite funny!

[Excellence]

I thought it was a bit low key to just be in a blog. . . well, I was fooled!

[wolverine]

Jumpy, on Apr 12 2009, 08:10 PM, said:

Excellence, on Apr 12 2009, 08:51 PM, said:

Like his Sandor or hate his Sansa, there's no excuse for attacking someone for your own impatience.

People have feelings.

Period.

I love Sandor.

I hate Sansa.

I love aSoIaF, so I don't care if I have to wait. No biggie. George will make it good, all of you unbelivers.

Fear not.

AND, one other thing -- why don't we start a thread on how awesome aSoIaF is, instead of QQing about it. I coul talk about those books for days. RE-READ COMING UP!

If this is true have you checked out this forum? http://asoiaf.westeros.org/

[Lacedaemonian]

I was always under the impression that he had wrote one book already but it was too large to print and the publishers wanted him to split it into two books and so it was only a matter of time for the second part of the book to be published after he had rubbed a little spit and dab into the chapter order and content not sure where I read this but I only ever used his website as a point of reference for his works so it had to be there and had to be words typed out by his fat clumsy elderly hands

[RangerSG]

Lacedaemonian, on Apr 14 2009, 03:38 PM, said:

I was always under the impression that he had wrote one book already but it was too large to print and the publishers wanted him to split it into two books and so it was only a matter of time for the second part of the book to be published after he had rubbed a little spit and dab into the chapter order and content not sure where I read this but I only ever used his website as a point of reference for his works so it had to be there and had to be words typed out by his fat clumsy elderly hands

No, as I noted, that's what he said in the afterward to aFFC.

And I'm not anti-Martin. I just want to see the book, and I think it's fair to hold him to account for a deadline he put on himself. I thought the first three books were very good. aFFC was...wobbly. But it wasn't the sludge pit that the average Wheel of Time is.

As for Sanderson being a household name, he's not. He SHOULD be, as he's well-nigh brilliant. But his writing the last WoT doesn't put him on a higher pedestal than Martin in terms of marketability overall. That book will sell because of the series name. That may or may not carry over to whatever else he does.

And I don't know that Erickson's "standards have dropped" at all. He is trying something different, and it's not what some people want, perhaps. But to say that his literary quality has dropped? I don't buy that at all.

[wolverine]

I thought that AFFC was a huge disappointment. It was a fluffy, indulgent, pointless read. Was I bored with the book? Not too bad, but this book could have easily been skipped with no detriment to the reader and was very disaapointing because of how good the first three were. I would definitely say AFFC was comparable to books 7-10 in the Wheel of Time. By the way I love both series and am just scared that ASOIF will turn into a stagnant cesspool also.

This post has been edited by wolverine: 15 April 2009 - 04:58 PM

[Lacedaemonian]

I had the same issue with JV Jones and her failed promises. Think she was three years passed her deadline in the end. Worth the wait though.

[Excellence]

With only 2 half pages of action, Feast for Crows was a thousand pages of utter boredom. I understand you want to read the series, you have to read his porn and female degradation, but the latter reached anall time low point. Mothers and their little daughters stripped naked to waiter pirates? His perennial subclassing of women is scond only to his weird love for incessant nipple mentions.

He's an acclaimed storyteller; draws you in. You WANT to care for his cast in plight. Futher more, he's one fo those rarities that gives almost every single person major of minor their own "prose voice", and that's acclaimed in itself.

But book 4 was massive boredom and massive disappointment for the 5yrs the world waited, 2 for me. And I'm in no hurry to read Dragons, which will no doubt contain additonal mentions of Dany's nipples or something.

[Lacedaemonian]

I loved his porn! I do not recall it as vividly as you though, which begs questions.

The book was just not in the same league as the earlier volumes in this series but, for me, it is quite clear that he is setting the scene for some pretty awesome events to come. I presume that he lost some of his usual thrill and flow when he had to alter the order of these two books. Saying that, if Dances With Wolves is at the same pace then I will struggle to defend his work.

This genre consistantly delivers at 98% dog shit - so I find it amazing that people are so critical of authors like Martin. I presume that this is more of a reaction to the hype than the actual product. I hate hype too, and sometimes find myself being overly critical as a consequence. Let us rejoice in the 2%!!

[polishgenius]

RangerSG, on Apr 15 2009, 08:43 AM, said:

And I don't know that Erickson's "standards have dropped" at all. He is trying something different, and it's not what some people want, perhaps. But to say that his literary quality has dropped? I don't buy that at all.

The trying of brave new stuff doesn't change the fact that the pacing of TBH was all over the place, with the climax halfway through and several hundred pages of loose-end-tying before another climax (indeed, none of the books after MT are paced as well as the first five), and that half the characters in Toll the Hounds were seemingly irrelevant to the plot at hand. The judgement on the latter in particular might be different when the series, ICE's books included, is all finished and all the threads revealed, but given that his stated aim when he began was to write a series where each book could be read alone, something has clearly slipped along the way- that or he was simply being dishonest, which I find difficult to believe.
The problems with RG are the most difficult to define for me - that's the one where I will buy that what he tried simply wasn't what I was expecting and that was all. And I do think it stacks up fourth-best, overall.

[blackzoid]

Wry, on Apr 12 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

And to everyone who holds up Erickson as an argument as to how it should be done... well just look at the dropping standard in the last few books for an explanation as to why most authors don't do a book in a year.

OT

You know, I'm real tired of that argument been trotted out against Erikson.
Can people please in the future put a disclaimer in front of statements like that, to say that it is their opinion only and NOT an objective fact that the last "few" (I assume you mean last 3?) books were of lower quality.
Because I loved TBH and TTH and was only mildly disappointed with RG. In my opinion, TTH was up there with MOI and the siege of Y'ghatan was the best scene in the entire series.

On topic you forget that GoTM, DG,MOI and HOC were all published on consecutive years. So it was possible for Erikson to work on a tight schedule for his "better" books.
However, I don't expect Martin to have to do this. He can proceed at his own pace. I'm used to Dark Tower waits after all.

And really what was wrong with A Feast for Crows? I liked that book. It broadened the story. Maybe it's because I read all the ASOFAI books in one go, but I saw no dip in quality.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 16 April 2009 - 05:18 PM

[Wry]

blackzoid, on Apr 16 2009, 06:10 PM, said:

Wry, on Apr 12 2009, 11:56 PM, said:

And to everyone who holds up Erickson as an argument as to how it should be done... well just look at the dropping standard in the last few books for an explanation as to why most authors don't do a book in a year.

OT

You know, I'm real tired of that argument been trotted out against Erikson.
Can people please in the future put a disclaimer in front of statements like that, to say that it is their opinion only and NOT an objective fact that the last "few" (I assume you mean last 3?) books were of lower quality.
Because I loved TBH and TTH and was only mildly disappointed with RG. In my opinion, TTH was up there with MOI and the siege of Y'ghatan was the best scene in the entire series.

On topic you forget that GoTM, DG,MOI and HOC were all published on consecutive years. So it was possible for Erikson to work on a tight schedule for his "better" books.
However, I don't expect Martin to have to do this. He can proceed at his own pace. I'm used to Dark Tower waits after all.

And really what was wrong with A Feast for Crows? I liked that book. It broadened the story. Maybe it's because I read all the ASOFAI books in one go, but I saw no dip in quality.

So i should qualify any negative post i make about Erikson by saying it's just my opinion? How about you just asume i'm expressing my opinion when ever i post unless i start referencing scientific studies about how mule POVs vastly improve reading experiences?

How can a comment on writing standard be anything but subjective anyway?

And i note you didn't apply the same disclaimer when it's your opinion and it's positive about SE.


I feel better now, this is good. i think we're bonding

[Lacedaemonian]

This aint the place to criticize Erikson, why are we talking about him?

[polishgenius]

Why not? Any topic where GRRM is criticised for his time will inevitably see Erikson (and why do so many people still spell his name wrong- curiousl) held up as an example of a writer who writes lots fast and then he'll get criticised as someone who clearly doesn't proofread and edit.