[Abyss]

I think i just caught something... i mean besides a scorching case of syphillis while i was on vacation...

I consider Iron Bars to be one of the great characters of MT. In typical SE fashion, he comes out of absolute nowhere, almost 2/3 of the way thru the book, as a supporting character in Seren's storyline, and proceeds to kill Rhulad in passing, bring justice on a bunch of bandits, save Seren three or four times, take out the Pack with some help but then rock the whole Tarthenal Gods bit. "Look... He's smiling." remains one of my favourite lines in the Malazan books, right after "Fucking dragon." in RG

It has been noted that, while many of us liked the IB storyline in RCG, especially the Seguleh confrontation, the plotline stayed entirely separate from the rest of the story. every other plotline met up in the big finishes except IB & co, who spent the book trying to get there, missed the show and ended up chained and en route to the Stormwall.

And the doubters among you cried 'Why? Why ICE?!? Why did you cheat us so???" well, i have faith...

On the reread in MT... during the fight with the Serenghal (the five Tarthenal gods), Corlo is running Mokra interference for Iron Bars... and during Corlo's inner monologue (mmpb, p591 thank you amazon search inside function):

"Corlo had never before seen such fighting, had never before witnessed the fullest measure of this Avowed's ability. It had been said, by Guardsmen who would know, that he was nearly a match to Skinner. And now Corlo believed it."

I think ICE (and SE) has a plan.

I think his plan runs across multiple books.

And i think IB is the Avowed who is going to take Skinner down (or give it a damn good shot) somewhere further along the way.

- Abyss, smiling.

[Mulch]

Or, on the theme of multi-book storylines, Iron Bars will fight Skinner to a standstill at which point the seguleh 2nd will appear and skewer them both on his lance!

@abyss Cracking theory btw

This post has been edited by Mulch: 17 February 2009 - 05:28 PM

[Toc]

Could be that way, but I think it's more likely that it will be the Seguleh 2nd who takes Skinner down, if anyone.

[Benji]

Good theory, but I think that ICE has other plans for IB. He's probably going to somehow be our POV on the whole Stormriders storyline I would have thought.

[Aptorian]

Speaking of Iron Bars, I'd still like to know where that name comes from.

[Abyss]

I can see it now...

IB and Skinner are in full combat, The Second shows up...

The Second: SKINNER, you're MINE!!!
IB: Oh, hey, i'll just wait over here, you guys have fun.

Pages of combat follow. Skinner beats the Second. Kallor shows up...

Kallor: The Throne is MINE, Skinner!
IB: Don't anyone mind me, i'll just be over here with this beer.

Skinner beats Kallor. He's a complete mess.

Skinner: Another time, Iron Bars.
IB: Nah. Now's good.

...and stabs Skinner in the head.

IB: I never did like you much. dick.


- Abyss, ...oh c'mon, it would be funny....

[Cowl's Disciple]

Abyss, on Feb 18 2009, 06:50 AM, said:

I can see it now...

IB and Skinner are in full combat, The Second shows up...

The Second: SKINNER, you're MINE!!!
IB: Oh, hey, i'll just wait over here, you guys have fun.

Pages of combat follow. Skinner beats the Second. Kallor shows up...

Kallor: The Throne is MINE, Skinner!
IB: Don't anyone mind me, i'll just be over here with this beer.

Skinner beats Kallor. He's a complete mess.

Skinner: Another time, Iron Bars.
IB: Nah. Now's good.

...and stabs Skinner in the head.

IB: I never did like you much. dick.


- Abyss, ...oh c'mon, it would be funny....

I laughed.

I like your overall theory though, and it'd be nice after far too little IB in RotCG. Really, if it's the Seguleh 2nd or IB there will be one epic duel when Skinner gets it.

This post has been edited by Thyr: 18 February 2009 - 01:13 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Interesting theory, but does K'azz's Disavowal and their subsequent removal from the ranks of the Crimson Guard have an affect on this? Why would Iron Bars care about Skinner, now? I'm not sure what the affect of the "Disavowal" will have on their life-spans or their altered humanity, it might not change, but it also might.

Secondly, The Crimson Guard still exists, with K'azz back as its leader. Won't Iron Bars goal be to return to the reformed Guard, and not some personal vendetta against Skinner (of whom he has no idea has betrayed the Guard)?

Third, it seems that Stonesword (Greymane) is pivotal to the events in Korel. Iron Bars will be in Korel. Perhaps the reason Iron Bars never made it was so that he can be introduced to help Greymane with whatever he has to do and needs to be placed correctly in Korel (plot-line wise) to do so.

Finally, Iron Bars as his moniker: I always thought it had to do with his steely resolve/will to do what was necessary no matter how hard he had to push himself.

[Benji]

Aptorian, on Feb 17 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

Speaking of Iron Bars, I'd still like to know where that name comes from.

Maybe he's a cheap version of Wolverine? Iron coating his skeleton rather than adamantine...

[Hinter]

Two good theory's from Abyss and HoosierDaddy, and not mutually exclusive I believe.

Yes, IB has no idea about Skinner's betrayal and the return of K'azz and his overriding concern will be to escape from the stormwall and rejoin the guard. I thing HD is right, he will join forces with Greymane at some point. Greymane will fill him on on the details and after they have kicked arse on Korel perhaps they will both go after Skinner.

Another interesting point that HD brings up is what are the consequences of K'azz disavowing Skinner? Is he now mortal again? Personally I believe not. It took 600 Guardsman swearing the vow to make a ritual powerful enough to become avowed in the first place, and seeing as they are immortal as long as K'azz still lives, and as long as the empire still lives (both of which are still true) I believe that Skinner is still tied to the vow.

[Binder of Demons]

I think Iron Bars already knows about Skinners betrayal through "The Brethren". Because K'azz makes the announcement through the brethren before he actually gets to the main battle. So there is a strong probability that Iron Bars will also know (since we don't know what the limits of the brethren as a communication tool is).

And Iron Bars may want to go after Skinner since K'azz says that he was betrayed by Skinner and Co., and Iron Bars seems like a really honourable guy.

[Abyss]

I think IB is completely out of the loop as to Skinner, Cowl and everything in RCG.

The 'disavowed' thing is, i suspect, more symbolic than depowering. While Skinny still has his armour-of-ass-kicking, the other 40 Avowed would be pretty useless without the Vow's power-ups. As it, they have probably lost any assistance from the Brethren.

Altho the question remains just what the Vow is doing to K'azz aside from shrinking him.

- Abyss, thinks dieting and exercise is safer.

[L'oric]

Binder of Demons, on Feb 18 2009, 05:03 AM, said:

I think Iron Bars already knows about Skinners betrayal through "The Brethren". Because K'azz makes the announcement through the brethren before he actually gets to the main battle. So there is a strong probability that Iron Bars will also know (since we don't know what the limits of the brethren as a communication tool is).

And Iron Bars may want to go after Skinner since K'azz says that he was betrayed by Skinner and Co., and Iron Bars seems like a really honourable guy.

I second the Brethren getting word to Iron Bars about Skinner.

I think the disavowal of skinner only means that the Brehtren will no longer do as he says. The Vow will hold until the Malazan Empire is no more and Kazz is back in place. I think RotCG pretty much makes it clear that such an occurrence will never happen because of what the Crimson Guard will do. So they will be a mercenary army for good...Grub is going to hire them and then title Kazz with land.

hehehe

[Hinter]

L'oric, on Feb 18 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

I second the Brethren getting word to Iron Bars about Skinner.

I have to disagree. If the brethren could act as a worldwide comms network, they would have found K'azz immediately.

But then, thinking about it, didn't the Brethren admit that Skinner had fooled them all, so maybe they kept quiet about K'azz.

Shit, now I'm arguing with my self. Damn you ICE and SE, DAMN YOU!!!!

[L'oric]

I do not think they can act as a Worldwide Comm network either but I think they could make a mission of trying to find someone from their original squad to relay news to them. Else how would they have all known when to return to Quon Tali after the initial dispesal?

I think the where Kazz was had more to do with the Brehtren and the Avowed not knowing how to get in touch with him than anything else.

Sincerely

[foolio]

I never did understand how the bretheren were fooled by Skinner. It almost seems they would have had to been complicit in the betrayal of K'azz. At least some of them.

Quote

Speaking of Iron Bars, I'd still like to know where that name comes from.

At one point I think he says ,"I am Bars, Iron Bars." I know this sounds week but maybe he was given the name Bars and from saying I am Bars, that was mistaken for "Iron Bars" and it stuck. Sounds silly but I just thought it was weird how he said it and how similar they sound.

This post has been edited by foolio: 18 February 2009 - 05:21 PM

[Abyss]

foolio, on Feb 18 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

I never did understand how the bretheren were fooled by Skinner. It almost seems they would have had to been complicit in the betrayal of K'azz. At least some of them.
...

Not exactly, since no one but Skinner and Cowl actually knew they had given up on ever finding Kazz and were seizing power for themselves. And cowl, being a High Mage, could have sheilded any chats the two of them had from the Brethren, who were really just a bunch of whiny ghosts happy to go along with the whole 'Conquer the World!' thing anyways until Kazz showed up and made them feel guilty about it.


- Abyss, will never trust a ghost...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Never trust genies, either...

To be honest, I think only a massive plot device will save Iron Bars from the Stormwall. I doubt the Stormriders will leave him alone like they did Trav.

[Urizen]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Feb 20 2009, 11:10 AM, said:

Never trust genies, either...

To be honest, I think only a massive plot device will save Iron Bars from the Stormwall. I doubt the Stormriders will leave him alone like they did Trav.

plot device Kyle to the rescue...

[Aptorian]

The Stormriders seem to recognize power, why strike at a place that will cost them too many men when they can attack the weaker parts?