[lord of tragedy]

I keep wondering about Icarium's role in the denoument of the MBOTF. His last words, if I can remember correctly, were "if K'rul could do it why not I?". And with willpower being the supreme force in the Malazan universe, who knows just how far Icarium may go with this statement. My guess is Icarium reappears to save the Krulic warrens, or magic itself, by replacing K'rul, by opening his own veins. So, are Icariums machines then his path for K'rul-like Ascendancy? And if so why do the azath fear this development so much?

[Aptorian]

I believe the reference is a bit more subtle than something like usurping the warrens.

K'rulls warrens are grounded in earth, through Burn, and the power runs through his veins.

Icariums machines were burried in the earth and he used his blood to power them up.

Of course there must be more to it, the question is what. I believe there was some reference to the machines taking thought or affecting minds, thus suggesting that he was trying to fix his head and may have gotten a whole lot more in the bargain. That is, if he didn't completely FUBAR himself with the ancient, seemingly broken machinery.

[D'rek]

As I said in the now-very-similar TtH thread, Iccy slashing his wrists connects to K'rul making the warrens (via a series of visions by Lady Envy in MoI). That, plus the machines draining peoples minds like Apt said, plus the whole part where Iccy can't remember stuff means it's probably intended to make some sort of warren of time or memories using the consumed people as a basis.

Of course, the machine is broken...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Ha, a warren of time. I postulated that...

Maybe there is such a warren, and Iccy has gone there to repair his machine.

[lord of tragedy]

so icarium's plight is the same plight is the plight of the entropic universe? he is doomed to hurtle forward without remembering, like time itself. he is time or a represntative of it. so can noone else postulate that SE might use time as a way of reasserting order over chaos?

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Maybe Iccy is a massive plot device!

I think Iccy will either die, be sucked into another dimension or somesuch removal or lose all his chaotic parasite power and become a normal Jhag and walk off into the odhan of the same name.

Happy endings.

[Xardean]

Happy endings hardly exist in the Malazan Book of the Fallen.
Icarium will prolly end up killing the CG, after retaining all his memories, but die in the process of banishing the CG forever.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Yeah, I know happy endings are scarce. Therefore, you expect the worst, see?

Would it be a major faceplam if the CG changed his ways in the end? I would.

[Xardean]

Id be so angry if that happened....

[Adjutant Stormy~]

It'd be a curveball. Not to mention the fact that Iccy is so well loved, I really think he should have a happy ending- so tortured an individual deserves his retirement.

But SE's got no need for a so-called shaved-knuckle, though he has consistently avoided some massive, irritating, deus-ex-machina mechanics that nobody would tolerate.

I, as always, recommend the wait-and-see path.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

 Adjutant Stormy, on Feb 16 2009, 02:15 PM, said:

But SE's got no need for a so-called shaved-knuckle, though he has consistently avoided some massive, irritating, deus-ex-machina mechanics that nobody would tolerate.

Such as? I am intrigued...

[presumingpete]

 Ain't_It_Just_, on Feb 15 2009, 09:06 AM, said:

Yeah, I know happy endings are scarce. Therefore, you expect the worst, see?

Would it be a major faceplam if the CG changed his ways in the end? I would.

everyone knows the real villains of the series are shadowthrone and cotillion!

edited: due to lapse in typing ability

This post has been edited by presumingpete: 16 February 2009 - 07:33 PM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

ST perhaps, but Cotillion is alright. Mind you, I wouldn't trust 'em as far I could throw them.

[lord of tragedy]

SE has avoided the whole deus ex machina plotlines? hood appearing just in time in dragnipur with his undead army? it strikes me as quite obvious that ST and Cot's puppet masterish hanging round in shadows can't be any but the deus ex machina. icariums resoloution will i'm sure be suitably painful in keeping with his general pathos.

it would be very funny if the CG turned over a new leaf. what a mind melt.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Anyone think the Eres'al travelling time is a bit of a deus ex machina?

[lord of tragedy]

humanity's great progeniter reaching forward in time to nurture and succour us. what else could it be.

[Urb]

In the end, there will be Lifeslayer and Deathslayer holding hands and walking into the sunset. Mark my words!

About the original post:

 lord of tragedy, on Feb 11 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

"if K'rul could do it why not I?"

I believe it was Hoosierdaddy who brilliantly pointed out that K'rul returned from Caos (from which Icarium brought back the Dying god with his machine). That would be the best explanation for that particular statement I've seen so far.

[lord of tragedy]

 Urb, on Mar 9 2009, 01:51 PM, said:

In the end, there will be Lifeslayer and Deathslayer holding hands and walking into the sunset. Mark my words!

About the original post:

 lord of tragedy, on Feb 11 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

"if K'rul could do it why not I?"

I believe it was Hoosierdaddy who brilliantly pointed out that K'rul returned from Caos (from which Icarium brought back the Dying god with his machine). That would be the best explanation for that particular statement I've seen so far.

i'm not convinced. did icarium bring back the dying god? was the dying god not bellurdan? i just can't see icarium siding with the CG. deathstealer and life slayer seem to me to be antagonistic. however you may be absolutely correct to link them together. the question is how?

This post has been edited by lord of tragedy: 09 March 2009 - 03:58 PM

[Urb]

Oh, well... To be honest I was joking about Lifeslayer holding hands with Deathslayer. That the two are linked somehow (plotwise), I'm almost certain that I think they would be.

As for Icarium bringing back the dying god (unintentionally of course), I guess it could be wrong. I just meant it was the best explanation I've seen so far

[beru]

my 2 cents:
icaruim tryed to force time into somthing ordered (like K'rul and the warrens) by using his own blood as a shape... he failed..