[Tennes]

Liosan, on Feb 12 2009, 04:10 PM, said:

Wait so you want us to hold off on finding leaders until one reveals? Thats just plain stupid.

That's how I read it at first, but then I assumed that Telas had meant something else, because that would be a bit too dumb.

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 2, you have 14 hours remaining (sort of)

21 players remain, 11 to lynch or goto night.

6 votes for hp (emurlahn, tennes, serc, meanas, fener, omtose)
1 vote for galayn lord (shadow)

16 players aint voted yet.

[Fener]

I kind of understand Telas' concern - we shouldn't base all our subsequent decisions on the assumption that HP is a leader. But at the same time, we should be trying to identify and lynch leaders, and this case seems like a decent attempt at achieving that to me.

[Omtose]

Out for a while, got some studying to do and exams to take.

[Ruse]

Checking in for the day, I will be in and out and post as much as I can. Honestly, the HP fire distancing IS weak. and I wouldn't place my vote based on that alone as some have done. The Galain thing is interesting and it could be one of 2 things, random coincidence, or subtle defending. I think if we lynch HP and get a Fire team CF that it's likely that HP was a fire leader. As this is all we have to go on atm I will.

vote HP

i'm gonna try to have a look at some people today to see if we can get some discussion going in other avenues as well. Kinda feel like people are latching onto the first good thing that makes sense.

This post has been edited by Ruse: 12 February 2009 - 04:35 PM

[Tennes]

Ruse, on Feb 12 2009, 04:34 PM, said:

i'm gonna try to have a look at some people today to see if we can get some discussion going in other avenues as well. Kinda feel like people are latching onto the first good thing that makes sense.

Good plan. People do need to talk about other stuff today, to give us more to go on.

[Telas]

Liosan, on Feb 12 2009, 06:10 PM, said:

Wait so you want us to hold off on finding leaders until one reveals? Thats just plain stupid.

No. But if we lynch HP today on the basis that he's a leader, but in fact he isnt, we'll play the rest of the game thinking we'd hit a leader when we hadnt. Just throwing it out there now, else in a day or two there's gonna be cases along the lines of "We know HP was a leader therefore this and that".

Wait, I see people have kinda explained what I meant, Fener probably stated it the best. Like I said, it's a logical enough case, and while still pretty weak, it's just about the only info anyone seems to have gleaned from yesterday's spamfest. I'm maybe gonna look back at a couple of people, will vote HP if I dont see anything else worth building a case on.

[Emurlahn]

Path-Shaper, on Feb 12 2009, 11:15 AM, said:

It is day 2, you have 14 hours remaining (sort of)

21 players remain, 11 to lynch or goto night.

6 votes for hp (emurlahn, tennes, serc, meanas, fener, omtose)
1 vote for galayn lord (shadow)

16 players aint voted yet.

Umm, 21-7 is 14. At least, last time I checked. I stopped taking maths after grade 11. And with Ruse's vote its now 13. So, I'll edit your post.

Quote

It is day 2, you have 14 hours remaining (sort of)

21 players remain, 11 to lynch or goto night.

7 votes for hp (emurlahn, tennes, serc, meanas, fener, omtose, ruse)
1 vote for galayn lord (shadow)

13 players aint voted yet.

[Telas]

Well I did a bit of a skim, randomly jumping to pages to see if there was anything worthwhile, but I cant see anything. I'm willing to vote HP, but I'd feel bad if we hadn't looked at a couple of other people with so much time left on the clock.

[Meanas]

Emurlahn, on Feb 12 2009, 04:53 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on Feb 12 2009, 11:15 AM, said:

It is day 2, you have 14 hours remaining (sort of)

21 players remain, 11 to lynch or goto night.

6 votes for hp (emurlahn, tennes, serc, meanas, fener, omtose)
1 vote for galayn lord (shadow)

16 players aint voted yet.

Umm, 21-7 is 14. At least, last time I checked. I stopped taking maths after grade 11. And with Ruse's vote its now 13. So, I'll edit your post.

Quote

It is day 2, you have 14 hours remaining (sort of)

21 players remain, 11 to lynch or goto night.

7 votes for hp (emurlahn, tennes, serc, meanas, fener, omtose, ruse)
1 vote for galayn lord (shadow)

13 players aint voted yet.

ARE YOU QUESTIONING THE ALMIGHTY ALL KNOWING MODS!!!!!!

Fool!!!!!

All powerful Mods do not strick me down as well. Please restrict your punishment to Emurlahn. Know that he does not speak for the rest of us.

Let us all now gather together and pray for the soul of Emurlahn and ask that the ALL POWERFUL ALL KNOWING MODS take pitty on his blasphemy and sacrilegious ways.

This post has been edited by Meanas: 12 February 2009 - 05:00 PM

[Ruse]

Rashan, on Feb 11 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

Korlat, on Feb 11 2009, 05:54 AM, said:

Rashan, on Feb 11 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

Korlat, on Feb 11 2009, 05:20 AM, said:

Rashan, on Feb 11 2009, 09:07 AM, said:

Seriously? You've obviously not given it a lot of thought from the Blackmask's point of view then... which to me means you're a numbered guy.

Vote Korlat.

I understood that a blackmask cant target anyone higher than himself or he will die?
Thats why i intend on not targeting anyone at night.

Am i wrong?

well now, since you ask directly and since it adds to my case that you're numbered, allow me to explain my train of thought.

You die, yes. Unless a 7th targets a 7th with you. Unless you target a 7th already targeted by a 3rd, or a 3rd already targeted by a first, or a first already targeted by 2 firsts (I'm assuming that does kill the solo first, seems logical, same goes for us BMs) or a first and a third. In all cases, the guy is dead before you target him, due to orders being resolved top level down. There's also the possibility that you're guarded already by a first or a third and your challenge doesn't get through.

If I assume we don't lynch you but a blackmask, there's a 13/23 chance that I'll target another blackmask (including ones of my own team) - meaning I'll survive unless I'm targeted by 2 blackmasks or a 7th myself. Add to that a whole lot of fractions because of all the above options, and chance at survival is good.

Secondly, by targeting I can also allow a 7th to kill another 7th, which is a big bonus.

If I'm doing nothing, I can still be killed by 7ths and 2 blackmasks. I still endanger myself, just not by targeting upwards... I'm a sitting duck waiting to get shot by players who do play aggressively, and all I can do is play symp. As opposed to being a potential ninja-symp

Lastly, I think my task is to play aggressively at night. As long as the other teams have a near full complement of blackmasks around, they can hide their leaders and form a voting block. The 7ths alone are not enough to erode that, for a long time, and they too can die. If my 7th dies, there's no-one around to kill blackmasks and opposing teams have a solid voting block.

As an afterthought: DiBs is the mod, he's practically suicidal, and he made a lethal set-up on purpose.

So how does this make me numbered. Any which way you look at it you still need to know whats going on regardless of being numbered or blackmask.
This is exactly why i wanted to discuss mechanics right at the beginning and then galain shut me out from then onwards.

I am under the impression that as a black mask I need to be careful. But the way you put it makes sense. Thanks.
Yet I would much rather get a cf first before i decide what to do. And my point still stands that Gay lord was rather brazen with saying who he is and isnt attacking tonight.

Make of it what you will.
(what the correct term....attack/vote/NA)

It makes you numbered because you didn't think your BM role through as a BM would. The first thing I did was examine my action from all sides and see if my NA was worth anything with so many others around. The second thing I did was look and see how easily I could get killed. The third thing I did was waiting for someone to pop up who saw only the top of the iceberg - namely, a vulnerable little BM who loses against everyone else, and didn't explore further for the upsides of the role.

I assume every other Blackmask at the least saw what I did, it makes sense to go over your own role, even if they then decide to ignore it and want to pursue a less risky strategy than I do. It's the people who didn't see that and only see easy prey that are either 1sts, 3rds and (less so) 7ths, imho - why would they concern themselves deeply with a role that can't threaten them? You proved to be one who suits my reasoning, and the fact that Kesso jumped to your defense by stating I could lynch my own 7th, proved to me that he too did the calculations, and wanted to throw a fast deterrent my way.

If my reasoning was flawed, he could point it out and save you. He didn't. So, I conclude that he thought my approach was a good & reasonable one and my conclusion solid, but that he still needed to protect you.
He could hardly say you were a BM, when my conclusion is you are not. He could also not say you're a first or third, so he stuck to my line of reasoning and suggested you were possibly my team's 7th - but he wouldn't know he had to defend you if you were a 7th. Neither did he realize the odds that you're not my 7th are better than nearly anything else at this stage...

So I think Kesso is a blackmask to you, and you are a 1st or 3rd.
GL commented that he wouldn't attack a certain someone - see the quote: him (Galain, I think?) tonight. That's vastly different from not targeting anyone, and that yopu try to sell it as such reeks of despair.

Rashan, on Feb 12 2009, 04:37 AM, said:

Galayn Lord also had a line somewhere of icicles falling from rooftops and being deadly.

Did a reread on Rashan- Only 13 posts and I tend to like to take the path of least resistance. He goes out of his way to say he is a BM and basically outlines a whole strategy for any BM that doesn't want to think.... we'll call it the " Being a Black Mask for Dummies" post. Then he uses a post that tries to make a connection between a joke post by (Kess??? I think) and A comment by Gaylan Lord that would point towards team Ice. Consider earlier he said he thought Korlat was a Leader, and that Gaylan Lord was a Black Mask of Korlat. After the CF we find out that Korlat is wind. and that clearly Korlat wasn't Rashan's leader. So basically Rashan has attacked, Ice, and Wind. and claimed Black mask. I deduce that Rashan is a Fire Black Mask. Normally I am not one to want to vote off the Black masks.. BUT, if we did take him out, thats 1 less vote to protect the Fire leaders when we get there.

Thoughts?

Also... the whole Him being a black mask thing could be a ploy, and if we lynch we are actually getting a 7th or maybe even 1/3... though I am skeptical he would be a first or third. IMO if we lynch Rashan, we are likely reducing Fire down by one Probable black mask with the Bonus that he could be a 7th.

ETA snipped a bit of the OP to try to make it easier to read.

This post has been edited by Ruse: 12 February 2009 - 05:34 PM

[Ruse]

A bit to add to the last thought that the whole "I'm a black mask" post. He also could be a 7th or third trying to draw Black mask attempts on his life ad thus reduce the field. added to that his time zone constraints and work restrictions, its really hard to get fluid interactions with Rashan. I would have no problem voting Rashan or HP.

[Telas]

Ruse, on Feb 12 2009, 07:30 PM, said:

Rashan, on Feb 11 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

Korlat, on Feb 11 2009, 05:54 AM, said:

Rashan, on Feb 11 2009, 09:43 AM, said:

Korlat, on Feb 11 2009, 05:20 AM, said:

Rashan, on Feb 11 2009, 09:07 AM, said:

Seriously? You've obviously not given it a lot of thought from the Blackmask's point of view then... which to me means you're a numbered guy.

Vote Korlat.

I understood that a blackmask cant target anyone higher than himself or he will die?
Thats why i intend on not targeting anyone at night.

Am i wrong?

well now, since you ask directly and since it adds to my case that you're numbered, allow me to explain my train of thought.

You die, yes. Unless a 7th targets a 7th with you. Unless you target a 7th already targeted by a 3rd, or a 3rd already targeted by a first, or a first already targeted by 2 firsts (I'm assuming that does kill the solo first, seems logical, same goes for us BMs) or a first and a third. In all cases, the guy is dead before you target him, due to orders being resolved top level down. There's also the possibility that you're guarded already by a first or a third and your challenge doesn't get through.

If I assume we don't lynch you but a blackmask, there's a 13/23 chance that I'll target another blackmask (including ones of my own team) - meaning I'll survive unless I'm targeted by 2 blackmasks or a 7th myself. Add to that a whole lot of fractions because of all the above options, and chance at survival is good.

Secondly, by targeting I can also allow a 7th to kill another 7th, which is a big bonus.

If I'm doing nothing, I can still be killed by 7ths and 2 blackmasks. I still endanger myself, just not by targeting upwards... I'm a sitting duck waiting to get shot by players who do play aggressively, and all I can do is play symp. As opposed to being a potential ninja-symp

Lastly, I think my task is to play aggressively at night. As long as the other teams have a near full complement of blackmasks around, they can hide their leaders and form a voting block. The 7ths alone are not enough to erode that, for a long time, and they too can die. If my 7th dies, there's no-one around to kill blackmasks and opposing teams have a solid voting block.

As an afterthought: DiBs is the mod, he's practically suicidal, and he made a lethal set-up on purpose.

So how does this make me numbered. Any which way you look at it you still need to know whats going on regardless of being numbered or blackmask.
This is exactly why i wanted to discuss mechanics right at the beginning and then galain shut me out from then onwards.

I am under the impression that as a black mask I need to be careful. But the way you put it makes sense. Thanks.
Yet I would much rather get a cf first before i decide what to do. And my point still stands that Gay lord was rather brazen with saying who he is and isnt attacking tonight.

Make of it what you will.
(what the correct term....attack/vote/NA)

It makes you numbered because you didn't think your BM role through as a BM would. The first thing I did was examine my action from all sides and see if my NA was worth anything with so many others around. The second thing I did was look and see how easily I could get killed. The third thing I did was waiting for someone to pop up who saw only the top of the iceberg - namely, a vulnerable little BM who loses against everyone else, and didn't explore further for the upsides of the role.

I assume every other Blackmask at the least saw what I did, it makes sense to go over your own role, even if they then decide to ignore it and want to pursue a less risky strategy than I do. It's the people who didn't see that and only see easy prey that are either 1sts, 3rds and (less so) 7ths, imho - why would they concern themselves deeply with a role that can't threaten them? You proved to be one who suits my reasoning, and the fact that Kesso jumped to your defense by stating I could lynch my own 7th, proved to me that he too did the calculations, and wanted to throw a fast deterrent my way.

If my reasoning was flawed, he could point it out and save you. He didn't. So, I conclude that he thought my approach was a good & reasonable one and my conclusion solid, but that he still needed to protect you.
He could hardly say you were a BM, when my conclusion is you are not. He could also not say you're a first or third, so he stuck to my line of reasoning and suggested you were possibly my team's 7th - but he wouldn't know he had to defend you if you were a 7th. Neither did he realize the odds that you're not my 7th are better than nearly anything else at this stage...

So I think Kesso is a blackmask to you, and you are a 1st or 3rd.
GL commented that he wouldn't attack a certain someone - see the quote: him (Galain, I think?) tonight. That's vastly different from not targeting anyone, and that yopu try to sell it as such reeks of despair.

Rashan, on Feb 12 2009, 04:37 AM, said:

Galayn Lord also had a line somewhere of icicles falling from rooftops and being deadly.

Did a reread on Rashan- Only 13 posts and I tend to like to take the path of least resistance. He goes out of his way to say he is a BM and basically outlines a whole strategy for any BM that doesn't want to think.... we'll call it the " Being a Black Mask for Dummies" post. Then he uses a post that tries to make a connection between a joke post by (Kess??? I think) and A comment by Gaylan Lord that would point towards team Ice. Consider earlier he said he thought Korlat was a Leader, and that Gaylan Lord was a Black Mask of Korlat. After the CF we find out that Korlat is wind. and that clearly Korlat wasn't Rashan's leader. So basically Rashan has attacked, Ice, and Wind. and claimed Black mask. I deduce that Rashan is a Fire Black Mask. Normally I am not one to want to vote off the Black masks.. BUT, if we did take him out, thats 1 less vote to protect the Fire leaders when we get there.

Thoughts?

Also... the whole Him being a black mask thing could be a ploy, and if we lynch we are actually getting a 7th or maybe even 1/3... though I am skeptical he would be a first or third. IMO if we lynch Rashan, we are likely reducing Fire down by one Probable black mask with the Bonus that he could be a 7th.

ETA snipped a bit of the OP to try to make it easier to read.

The only problem with your case that I see is that attacking Korlat doesnt necessarily mean he wasnt in wind. He only suggested Korlat was a leader. There's no evidence that he was, meaning Rashan wouldn't have known he was going for one of his team mates (if he was wind). The way you made that logical connection makes me think you know something I dont...

Edit - although the whole 'this is how BMs should play cos I'm a BM and it's how I'm playing' thing does feel a little heavy handed. Could be a ranked player trying to hide.

This post has been edited by Telas: 12 February 2009 - 05:49 PM

[Telas]

empty thread is empty

[Emurlahn]

Iz here. Iz done muzicz, can focus on Mafiaz.

[Hood's Path]

OK I'm back on and off for the evening shift. So, the case against me consists mainly of one ill-advised comment that is seen as distancing myself from team Fire and that Galain appears to be supporting me in one post, causing people to imagine that I'm a leader in team Fire. Assuming I am lynched today, the CF will clear me on both counts so I hope you all feel stupid afterwards. Put simply, I've been telling the truth as I see it the whole game so far. I don't see any questions directed at me or an actual case to respond to so I'll let you all get on with it.

I'll check the thread periodically in case something new comes up but for now I'll...


vote Rashan

[Emurlahn]

Iz thinking Rashan prbly just n00b sauce. Iz trying to distance from everybody, and make himself most acceptable target. WiFOM iz for teh Firsts to atk him and keep him safe from 7ths. iz prbly nothing, but I'll be watching him closely naow.

[Ruse]

Telas, on Feb 12 2009, 09:48 AM, said:

The only problem with your case that I see is that attacking Korlat doesnt necessarily mean he wasnt in wind. He only suggested Korlat was a leader. There's no evidence that he was, meaning Rashan wouldn't have known he was going for one of his team mates (if he was wind). The way you made that logical connection makes me think you know something I dont...

Edit - although the whole 'this is how BMs should play cos I'm a BM and it's how I'm playing' thing does feel a little heavy handed. Could be a ranked player trying to hide.

Yeah, I guess thats true. And I don't think I know anything you don't know. Except the name of my 1st and 3rd. And if you don't know what I Know... That means you are on another team!! Get Him!!

[Ruse]

Emurlahn, on Feb 12 2009, 10:13 AM, said:

Iz thinking Rashan prbly just n00b sauce. Iz trying to distance from everybody, and make himself most acceptable target. WiFOM iz for teh Firsts to atk him and keep him safe from 7ths. iz prbly nothing, but I'll be watching him closely naow.

Rash is def not a noob, and probably one of the more logical, analytical players left in the game.

[Ruse]

Emurlahn, on Feb 12 2009, 10:13 AM, said:

Iz thinking Rashan prbly just n00b sauce. Iz trying to distance from everybody, and make himself most acceptable target. WiFOM iz for teh Firsts to atk him and keep him safe from 7ths. iz prbly nothing, but I'll be watching him closely naow.

AND

remove vote

vote Emurlahn

I really hate that lol cat speak. not joking. really hate it. makes me think you are hiding something.