[L'oric]

In Bonehunters I always got the feeling that Sinn was not even 10 years old, but a few scenes from HOC changed my mind. All in all there are a bunch of things in HOC that have me looking forward to goign back to the 14th to see if they are ever resolved. IE Quick Ben is the one that freed Lostara Yil from Bidithals Rashan Shadow Dancer troupe where she was an apprentice. He wanted her to become part of the BB's. There was an attraction between the two of them at the time and she still remembers him fondly. Also I wanted to see if I could get some better descriptions of everyone in the 14th to see who would play what character. Anyway back to Sinn.

"The woman approaching was young, slight, and pallid. And Malazan." pg 418 House of Chains paperback US

"Kalam simply shrugged. " I went looking for a cleaner fight."
Her laugh was shrill, and she spun in mocking pirouette in the dust. "And you came here? Oh, you fool! that's so funny! It makes me want to scream, it's so funny!"
Her mind is broken. 'I see nothing amusing in killing,' he replied, 'Though I find it odd that you are here, seemingly so eager to kill fellow Malazans.'
Her face darkened. "My reasons are my own, Ulfas. Irriz I would speak with you in private. Come'
Kalam held his expression impassive as the captain flinched at the imperious tone."-Next page same edition.

So maybe 13, 14, older but broken. She is apprenticed to Fayelle who is one of the soletaken magicians of the apocolypse.

'Alas, all those poor fools who followed the Path of the Hand. the game was won far, far away_'
"We were the victims,' Fayelle murmured, 'of deception. By minions of Shadowthrone, no less, for which there will one day be a reckoning.'pg-367 HOC US edition.

She is also says she is capable of minor magics but has set up an illusion that has taken days to prepare. All in all a capable magician before she reemerged on the scene in Bonehunters.

Sincerely,
L'oric

This post has been edited by L'oric: 03 February 2009 - 05:56 PM

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

You have to remember that due to Kalam's older age, his description of Sinn as "young" is entirely relative. Based on that exact same conversation, and due to the fact that we know she is both apprenticed to Fayelle and a formidable presence in Irriz's camp, led me to believe that she was at least 16, and probably anywhere between 16-24.

[Stalker]

I would place her at a little younger than 16, closer to L'oric's guess. But there is no definative age shown.

also great pic ^^

[Aptorian]

L'oric, on Feb 3 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

IE Quick Ben is the one that freed Lostara Yil from Bidithals Rashan Shadow Dancer troupe where she was an apprentice. He wanted her to become past of the BB's.

Uhm. Are you sure you have the "want her to become a BB" part right? Quick Bens stint with the shadow cult run by Dancer logically had to have taken place before the BBs were formed. The Culling of the 7C shadow cults must be before the 7C rebellion, since Quick Ben needed to become an acolyte, rise high enough to be trusted with assassination missions as Dancers partner, to then screw them over some how and run away.

[L'oric]

pg- 391 HOC Us edition paperback.
"Did you know Delat-or rather, the man I would eventually learn was Delat_would have taken you for his own? Not just the one night. You would have joined him as a Bridgeburner, and that would well have pleased him. Or so I believe. No way to test it, alas, since it all went -outwardly- so thoroughly awry." -Cotillion speaking to Lostara Yi.

In this same scene Lostara Yil mentions that the conquest of Seven Cities was already well under way. She was in Ehrilitan and it had yet to fall. I do not know which city was the last...Aren? But the last championed fight against Dassem in NOK was...? Ehriltan...I don't honestly know but I would like it to be so. Anyone? All in all a nice little scene to learn about character pasts and the working of seven cities before the malazan empire came. Especially considering the fact that Lostara Yil was a Caster of Rashan...just not a very highly placed one. "middling" is what she calls herself. Still very young though.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Aptorian, on Feb 3 2009, 05:58 PM, said:

L'oric, on Feb 3 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

IE Quick Ben is the one that freed Lostara Yil from Bidithals Rashan Shadow Dancer troupe where she was an apprentice. He wanted her to become past of the BB's.

Uhm. Are you sure you have the "want her to become a BB" part right? Quick Bens stint with the shadow cult run by Dancer logically had to have taken place before the BBs were formed. The Culling of the 7C shadow cults must be before the 7C rebellion, since Quick Ben needed to become an acolyte, rise high enough to be trusted with assassination missions as Dancers partner, to then screw them over some how and run away.

I believe that L'oric is, inadvertently paraphrasing Dancer in HOC; after we are shown the flashback of Lostara's dancing that fateful night, Cotillion muses on what Quick Ben hoped to accomplish in sparing Lostara. (Remember? She shivers thinking about QB's slender hands.) With that in mind, I think it's safe to say that the Shadow god's speculation allows us to put these events in their place - in letting Bidithal and Lostara live instead of properly purging the Rashan cult that night, Delat earned the wrath of Kellenvad (who was also possibly there; Cotillion says that there were three people involved).

What exactly Cotillion meant by those ruminations is now called into question because, Apt, your analysis of the timing appears to have no flaw. We know that when QB disappeared, Kellenvad and Dancer lost track of him - and Delat fleeing to the protectorates would seem to explain how the two lost track of him....it may be a minor slip-up on SE's part, in skipping over the lawless time after Delat fled from the future rulers of Shadow and attributing intent to join a squad that, for all intents and purposes, should not have been in existence at that time.


EDIT - Ah, L'oric beat me to replying. I guess the chronology that we have to accept is that Dancer took a squad mage (or acolyte) from the ranks with him to purge Rashan without really knowing Delat's origins. In his ruminations in HoC, Cotillion is perhaps running over that new bit of information that he and Shadowthrone had only stumbled across in GotM - namely, that Delat had been hiding for all of these years as Quick Ben in the Bridgeburners. It's a rough kind of explanation, insofar as it not doing anything to justify QB's presence (though I guess much depends on how much time had passed in subjugating the remainder of the 7C rebellions following QB's recruitment.....)

This post has been edited by Where is Dassem Ultor?: 03 February 2009 - 06:27 PM

[Lisheo]

The Timeline Is Not Important.

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

Lies!

[Aptorian]

Hmm. Rethinking the storyline. Perhaps, Dancer or Kel recognized Quick Ben the BB as a rashan/meanas user and they recruited him on and off during the finishing up off the 7C campaign. It would fit together nicely if Quicks betrayal of the two took place around the time he chose to "die" in Mott Wood (or where ever that was) thereby losing Kel and Dancers trail, him avoiding the big bullseye it is to be the highmage and being able to return to the position of a lowly squadmage in the BBs.

[L'oric]

Aptorian, on Feb 3 2009, 11:36 AM, said:

Hmm. Rethinking the storyline. Perhaps, Dancer or Kel recognized Quick Ben the BB as a rashan/meanas user and they recruited him on and off during the finishing up off the 7C campaign. It would fit together nicely if Quicks betrayal of the two took place around the time he chose to "die" in Mott Wood (or where ever that was) thereby losing Kel and Dancers trail, him avoiding the big bullseye it is to be the highmage and being able to return to the position of a lowly squadmage in the BBs.

I like this timeline. It's clear to me from the section that he did not know at the time that Delat was Delat when Bidithal's temple was destroyed but for Lostara. The third character in the destruction of the temple seemed to be Kalam in my opinion.

Also another little tidbit along the QB train of thought.
Lostara Yil Speaking
"Where is this...Delat?'
His brows rose, as if he was caught off guard momentarily by the question, then he sighed and nodded. 'I have no hold over him these days, alas. Why? He is too powerful. Too mysterious. Too conniving. Too Hood-damned smart. Indeed, even Shadowthrone has turned his attentions elsewhere. I would love to arrange a reunion, but I am afraid I have not that power."-Cottilion's answer pg 393 HOC. paperback edition US

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

I've always wondered about the "third" involved in the temple incident myself....I thought for a long time Cotillion meant Kellenvad himself, but I eventually became dissuaded with the possibility of the Emperor being that involved by that point. I never thought about it being Kalam...

[D'rek]

Hmm. Or alternatively the third person might been someone who could have (and had reason to) allow Bidithal to escape...