[Ain't_It_Just_]

Guard...what a funny name.

Did they all die (except for Temper and Ferrule)?

[Mcflury]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 25 2009, 12:48 PM, said:

Guard...what a funny name.

Did they all die (except for Temper and Ferrule)?

Yes, mowed down one and all by the crazy son of a bitch named.... euh... forgot his name again. Seven cities last hero
They died just because they weren't up to the task to fight that hero (only Dassem was that good) and they had to protect Dassem because he was betrayed.
And in the end, only Ferrule and Temp lived indeed.

(I could be mistaken though, it's possible that some of the Sword already had died before that fight, but then I must have missed it... it's in NoK anyways, in Temper's flashbacks.)

[Benji]

Nah, I think they were all there for that fight. Edge, Quillan and the other three died fighting whatever the champion's name was. Dassem was struggling after being shot by a Claw (supposedly). Dunno what Ferrule was doing, but Temper managed to hold off the champion long enough for a retreat to be sounded or something...

[Mcflury]

Benji, on Jan 25 2009, 02:04 PM, said:

Nah, I think they were all there for that fight. Edge, Quillan and the other three died fighting whatever the champion's name was. Dassem was struggling after being shot by a Claw (supposedly). Dunno what Ferrule was doing, but Temper managed to hold off the champion long enough for a retreat to be sounded or something...

Ferrule was helping Dassem kill the regulars around them (don't forget there were many, many enemy soldiers around them all the time too; it wasn't only Surgen (that was the hero's name, looked it up) opposing them.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Were they intentionally cut off from he other soldiers?

[Urizen]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 26 2009, 03:49 AM, said:

Were they intentionally cut off from he other soldiers?

It's never explained for certain but I wouldn't be suprised at all if Surly had a hand in the Malazan regulars not coming to the aid of Daseem and the Sword right away.
The one time Daseem is betrayed, wounded and in trouble the regular soldiers fails to beat back their inferior counterparts? smells like a set up to me

[Mcflury]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 26 2009, 03:49 AM, said:

Were they intentionally cut off from he other soldiers?

Well, yes and no. Temper, in his flashback, does mention it's not a rare thing that they got cut off from their regulars sometimes. He said it happened quite a lot that the Sword was completely encircled by enemies. That's also why Temper was thinking all the time he just had to hold off Surgen long enough... until the regulars would break free (because they always did)

So no, they weren't intentionally cut off (that would probably be the worst military tactic ever) but it was a rather common thing that it did happen.

[Binder of Demons]

It is strongly suggested that it was a deliberate betrayal by Laseen to remove another of the old guard. And it seems the idea was to injure Dassem as he was fighting a patroned champion so that it wouldn't be noticed.
The sword was intact when they took the field at Y'ghatan (i.e. 7 people)
We don't find out how a couple of them died, but Quillion went first as he stepped in to protect Dassem.
The next time we get a count Hilt and Edge are gone too.
Then,

Quote

NoK, UK mmpb, p.253
"Point faced Surgen. Temper saw little of the duel...Glimpses convinced him of Point's brilliance: the man outdid himself, lasting more exchanges than Temper believed possible against a patroned champion...Point fell. Temper roared in rage as Point had fought beautifully; there was no justice in his defeat."

And then came Temper's finest hour as he held off Surgen long enough for the malazan regulars to arrive.
Ferrule and Dassem were killing the ordinary soldiers trying to stop their retreat.

This is the thing that has stood out most for me. When ICE is writing, Temper is pretty awesome. He is said to have been able to hold Dassem in a duel longer than most, holds off a patroned champion, a crazed Jaghut and several other incidents through sheer stubbornness. Which i suppose is apt considering his nickname, he is strength and resilience personified. He's almost like a human version of Karsa. But when he shows up in SE's work he doesn't seem quite as amazing.

This post has been edited by Binder of Demons: 26 January 2009 - 11:02 AM

[Benji]

Binder of Demons, on Jan 26 2009, 11:01 AM, said:

..But when he shows up in SE's work he doesn't seem quite as amazing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't he really did much in SE's books? Apart from a brief set of appearances in The Bonehunters that is.

[Mcflury]

Benji, on Jan 26 2009, 01:54 PM, said:

Binder of Demons, on Jan 26 2009, 11:01 AM, said:

..But when he shows up in SE's work he doesn't seem quite as amazing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't he really did much in SE's books? Apart from a brief set of appearances in The Bonehunters that is.

Indeed. Temp is mostly a Ian character, so it's rather obvious we love him more in ian's work. I actually can't even remember Temp showing up in any SE book, so I must have been pretty unimpressed about it

[Aptorian]

Temper hardly features in the MBOTF. He just comes out of a pub and scares the piss out of ST. Hardly something you can judge a person by, but certainly interesting.

[Mcflury]

Aptorian, on Jan 26 2009, 02:32 PM, said:

Temper hardly features in the MBOTF. He just comes out of a pub and scares the piss out of ST. Hardly something you can judge a person by, but certainly interesting.

AAAAh, yes, now I remember. That was when ST dragged Kalam inside the azath, right?
I always kinda thought ST saw a demon coming from that pub (you know, that bartender who is a demon too), I hate it when my mind lies to me

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Wasn't that demon in Smiley's the one on the Twisted?

[Aptorian]

The Twisted?

[Urizen]

Aptorian, on Jan 27 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

The Twisted?

Kellanved's Flagship.

Speaking of the demonic tavernowner, In TBH Banaschar identifies Smiley as a Kenryll'ah(Sp?) demon and speakulates that Kellanved in his bar owning days summonded the demon to act as a bouncer and when Kellanved moved on the demon took over as the bar owner. When re-reading that part of TBH I noticed that when "Smiley" changes between shapes we are told a sweet, spicy scent appears in the air, very similar to what are felt when Soletaken/D'vers veer, not something that are felt when illusions are used. So I wonder what we have here. A Kenryll'ah demon that is a Soletaken Human or a human that is Soletaken Kenryll'ah. If the latter, might "Smiley" be an old friend or actual familymember to Shadowthrone?

[Mcflury]

Urizen, on Jan 27 2009, 11:40 AM, said:

Aptorian, on Jan 27 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

The Twisted?

Kellanved's Flagship.

Speaking of the demonic tavernowner, In TBH Banaschar identifies Smiley as a Kenryll'ah(Sp?) demon and speakulates that Kellanved in his bar owning days summonded the demon to act as a bouncer and when Kellanved moved on the demon took over as the bar owner. When re-reading that part of TBH I noticed that when "Smiley" changes between shapes we are told a sweet, spicy scent appears in the air, very similar to what are felt when Soletaken/D'vers veer, not something that are felt when illusions are used. So I wonder what we have here. A Kenryll'ah demon that is a Soletaken Human or a human that is Soletaken Kenryll'ah. If the latter, might "Smiley" be an old friend or actual familymember to Shadowthrone?

Yes, that's the one I ws thinking off. I thought ST had seen Smiley come out of some pub, and ST was so scared because he would be easily recognized by smiley.

But it seems it was Temp he saw. My mistake

And my guess is Smiley would be kenryll'ah demon that is a soletaken human, the other way around just wouldn't be weird enough for kellanved

[Aptorian]

Urizen, on Jan 27 2009, 11:40 AM, said:

Aptorian, on Jan 27 2009, 09:38 AM, said:

The Twisted?

Kellanved's Flagship.

That would be "the twist" not the twisted and when why would we associate demons with it when we've only ever heard it mentioned... once? When the empire met the rulers of shal morzim.

[foolio]

I thought it was "the twisted" also...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

The story said he was Dal Honese.

[Grief]

Pretty sure its temp he saw, but temp would be guardian by that point...