[Rashan]

Ok, I looked at HP's posts and don't see much other than the fact that he agreed that Omtose looked guilty, then after the Lio case he voted Serc, then after Serc's defense he removed vote, then after Ano made a good point about Serc's defense, he said he would be willing to put his vote back on. Not alot to go on, kind of playing safe and not commiting to anything, staying non-confrontational, but not really vote worthy, not sure really why he got so much heat at the end of day 1.

[D'riss]

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

I would also like to point out the unlikely hood of a creature actually posting hints as to who he will kill.
That makes no sense.

Vote XYZ is a pretty major hint imho

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

The necro doesn't know the creature.
Therefore his chances of picking that one hint out of many possible hints is small.

Well the hint is usually in bold characters

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

It is also risky for the necro get the creature to let him know who he is.
I expect the creature to be deliberately avoiding his masters, most of the time, except on odd occasions where it may defend.

They are on the same side, they have the same goals, if they can communicate those goals become easier to attain

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

Scum teams generally don't want to be connected.

Which is why you're getting nervous

Its simple
1. Creature lets necros know who he is, but in this case you picked up on an innocent comment from Serc and jumped to the wrong conclusion
2. Creature changes vote to a player (in this case me) who has no chance of getting lynched so late in the day.
3. You also switch vote to same player to bolster the defense of your creature, as you know I wasn't going to be lynched.
4. Meanwhile, you put my name on your list for recruitment knowing the creature will kill me.

And it may have worked if you'd correctly identified your creature.

Anyway, out for an hour or so.

[Ruse]

Liosan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

I like the case on mockra, thats a good catch, the only problem is the cf, we are never sure if we are getting a symp or just an inno. Serc could have been the symp for all we know, so although its a good idea to have a list of possible symps in our minds, announcing it on thread when you don't want to lynch them, means that you are in effect letting them know they are rumbled and stopping them from pointing out their masters.

I would rather have it out there, if he is a symp then there are more eyes keeping an eye on him.
I could die tonight, and the info would be lost.
(and since killers can also die, dont come and say "ooooh he said he could die tonight...ooooooo must be scum, classic scum saying, blah blah... anybody CAN die tonight.)

Liosan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

also i have been thinking about the mechanics of the game and personally it doesn't strike me as necessary for us to focus on one particular group, i think rather we should simply be aiming to remove the killing roles first so then the recruiters are in effect nullified, and then we can lynch them without the threat of their voting block increasing.

So for me the targets are killer(s), creature, necros.

The reason i have killer first is because i feel it will be harder to spot the creature, while the killer(s) and necros will have symps or recruits protecting or following them.

Yea i think the necro's and killers can be found in the same way. Only i think the creature might not be as sympish as a symp would because of the CF.
But yea...just look for scum behaviour in general is what I am doing.

[Thyrllan]

No. Its not hard to grasp. Its just a stupid theory.

1. Why would an inno say this on thread. Perhaps to alert other innos to the fact it could be happening. That puts them more on the look out for codes. We find one, we find scum. Obvious enough.
2. Go fucking have a look for my codes that supposedly exist if you want.
3. Due to 1 being so glaringly obvious as to why an inno may say this, why would I as a necro take it seriously.
4. Damn right I blatantly refused to vote serc. And much as I hate to fucking say it, I fucking told you so.
5. Why would any scum in his right mind do that. It is bound to, and has, drawn attention to me. You seem not to grasp that scum TRY NOT TO GET NOTICED. What I did, whatever the CF, was about as fucking noticeable as it gets. A creature is a loss for the necro, but serc was looking fucking inevtiable anyway. Still, i opposed it. Getting noticed. Getting connected to serc. In a way about as obviousas it gets. So, no necro would risk that. They wouldn't do something that is very likely to get them lynched like that. Had serc been the creature, I would die. And it 90% that he WAS going to go. You truly think any necro would risk that, going against something 90% likely to happen, that if it does and he's your creature(which you think he is, since he's "coded" to you) then you're going down, meaning not only creature lost, but a necro too? Basically fucking up your team fairly utterly.

[Thyrllan]

D'riss, on Jan 21 2009, 01:38 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

I would also like to point out the unlikely hood of a creature actually posting hints as to who he will kill.
That makes no sense.

Vote XYZ is a pretty major hint imho

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

The necro doesn't know the creature.
Therefore his chances of picking that one hint out of many possible hints is small.

Well the hint is usually in bold characters

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

It is also risky for the necro get the creature to let him know who he is.
I expect the creature to be deliberately avoiding his masters, most of the time, except on odd occasions where it may defend.

They are on the same side, they have the same goals, if they can communicate those goals become easier to attain

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

Scum teams generally don't want to be connected.

Which is why you're getting nervous

Its simple
1. Creature lets necros know who he is, but in this case you picked up on an innocent comment from Serc and jumped to the wrong conclusion
2. Creature changes vote to a player (in this case me) who has no chance of getting lynched so late in the day.
3. You also switch vote to same player to bolster the defense of your creature, as you know I wasn't going to be lynched.
4. Meanwhile, you put my name on your list for recruitment knowing the creature will kill me.

And it may have worked if you'd correctly identified your creature.

Anyway, out for an hour or so.

If I knew you were not going to get lynched, I therefore knew that serc was.
Therefore, were I a necro, I knew my creature was going to die anyhow.
Therefore, why bother, rather than just jumping on sercs train, and looking innocent.

[Ruse]

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

Ok, I looked at HP's posts and don't see much other than the fact that he agreed that Omtose looked guilty, then after the Lio case he voted Serc, then after Serc's defense he removed vote, then after Ano made a good point about Serc's defense, he said he would be willing to put his vote back on. Not alot to go on, kind of playing safe and not commiting to anything, staying non-confrontational, but not really vote worthy, not sure really why he got so much heat at the end of day 1.

I dont like non-confrontational players. How are you supposed to find scum if you dont put pressure on people.
He is either a sheep, or he pushing any players train that is not scum.

[Thyrllan]

Oh and D'riss by your astounding feat of logic, we now only have to look at people who voted the same to find all the scum...

[Liosan]

Ruse, on Jan 21 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

I like the case on mockra, thats a good catch, the only problem is the cf, we are never sure if we are getting a symp or just an inno. Serc could have been the symp for all we know, so although its a good idea to have a list of possible symps in our minds, announcing it on thread when you don't want to lynch them, means that you are in effect letting them know they are rumbled and stopping them from pointing out their masters.

I would rather have it out there, if he is a symp then there are more eyes keeping an eye on him.
I could die tonight, and the info would be lost.
(and since killers can also die, dont come and say "ooooh he said he could die tonight...ooooooo must be scum, classic scum saying, blah blah... anybody CAN die tonight.)

Liosan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

also i have been thinking about the mechanics of the game and personally it doesn't strike me as necessary for us to focus on one particular group, i think rather we should simply be aiming to remove the killing roles first so then the recruiters are in effect nullified, and then we can lynch them without the threat of their voting block increasing.

So for me the targets are killer(s), creature, necros.

The reason i have killer first is because i feel it will be harder to spot the creature, while the killer(s) and necros will have symps or recruits protecting or following them.

Yea i think the necro's and killers can be found in the same way. Only i think the creature might not be as sympish as a symp would because of the CF.
But yea...just look for scum behaviour in general is what I am doing.

@mods - can we have some clarification of what happens if either teams leaders die? usually when symps are left the game ends cause the killers are gone, but do we need to lynch them too? What happens to the creature if the necros are removed? Is the cf for the creature the same for recruits?

[Liosan]

This is quickly turning into the thyrllan and driss show. I am out for a bit, hopefully the shouting match will have relaxed by the time i am back.

[Thyrllan]

That'd be d'riss and ruse actually, not just d'riss...

[Ruse]

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

No. Its not hard to grasp. Its just a stupid theory.

1. Why would an inno say this on thread. Perhaps to alert other innos to the fact it could be happening. That puts them more on the look out for codes. We find one, we find scum. Obvious enough.

Its a standard rule in mafia never to reveal anything on thread that the killers can use to their advantage,
SO it is NOT the obvious thing to do, in fact serc said himself that it was stupid because he revealed to the necros a way to comunicate. So its not a "stupid theory"!
you sir, can eat a bag of dicks.

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

2. Go fucking have a look for my codes that supposedly exist if you want.

No one said you actaully did put in codes yet.

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

3. Due to 1 being so glaringly obvious as to why an inno may say this, why would I as a necro take it seriously.

Refer to my answer on one

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

4. Damn right I blatantly refused to vote serc. And much as I hate to fucking say it, I fucking told you so.

Eat all the dicks
You would us rather had no lynch then?

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

5. Why would any scum in his right mind do that. It is bound to, and has, drawn attention to me. You seem not to grasp that scum TRY NOT TO GET NOTICED. What I did, whatever the CF, was about as fucking noticeable as it gets. A creature is a loss for the necro, but serc was looking fucking inevtiable anyway. Still, i opposed it. Getting noticed. Getting connected to serc. In a way about as obviousas it gets. So, no necro would risk that. They wouldn't do something that is very likely to get them lynched like that. Had serc been the creature, I would die. And it 90% that he WAS going to go. You truly think any necro would risk that, going against something 90% likely to happen, that if it does and he's your creature(which you think he is, since he's "coded" to you) then you're going down, meaning not only creature lost, but a necro too? Basically fucking up your team fairly utterly.

Once again I reffer you to PS's last post.... where does my FUCKING vote lie?
I am not convinced, you could have just played stupid as a necro, i dunno. God alone it takes you so long to grasp a simple consept.
But i have my reservations, and there is the POSSIBILTY that you were the necro that i wanted to share.

Your reactions have been absplutely astounding...really you are jumping at my farts over here.


p.s eat the dicks mate youll feel better I promise.

[Rashan]

Ruse, on Jan 21 2009, 08:45 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

Ok, I looked at HP's posts and don't see much other than the fact that he agreed that Omtose looked guilty, then after the Lio case he voted Serc, then after Serc's defense he removed vote, then after Ano made a good point about Serc's defense, he said he would be willing to put his vote back on. Not alot to go on, kind of playing safe and not commiting to anything, staying non-confrontational, but not really vote worthy, not sure really why he got so much heat at the end of day 1.

I dont like non-confrontational players. How are you supposed to find scum if you dont put pressure on people.
He is either a sheep, or he pushing any players train that is not scum.

Yeah, but it's day 1. Many players don't even post (see Tennes and Gay Lord) so they could be seen as non-confrontational. I mean sure, it should be addressed, but to try and get that person lynched for it, when there are better candidates for the same thing strikes me as a bit odd. Anyway, thats my opinion.

[Ruse]

P.s.s that is the last i am going to talk on that subject, for fuck sakes its getting completely blown out of the water!!!!

[Ruse]

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:59 PM, said:

Ruse, on Jan 21 2009, 08:45 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

Ok, I looked at HP's posts and don't see much other than the fact that he agreed that Omtose looked guilty, then after the Lio case he voted Serc, then after Serc's defense he removed vote, then after Ano made a good point about Serc's defense, he said he would be willing to put his vote back on. Not alot to go on, kind of playing safe and not commiting to anything, staying non-confrontational, but not really vote worthy, not sure really why he got so much heat at the end of day 1.

I dont like non-confrontational players. How are you supposed to find scum if you dont put pressure on people.
He is either a sheep, or he pushing any players train that is not scum.

Yeah, but it's day 1. Many players don't even post (see Tennes and Gay Lord) so they could be seen as non-confrontational. I mean sure, it should be addressed, but to try and get that person lynched for it, when there are better candidates for the same thing strikes me as a bit odd. Anyway, thats my opinion.

huh?

oh and its day 2 btw

[Galayn Lord]

Yay done for the day, now I can actually play a bit.
So first I think the idea of mockra as a symp is interesting and does seem possible to me. His first post when he came in after the NK seemed to me like the sort of response I would expect from someone trying to put on a brave face when they're master died, although I know this last one could be misleading as they're are a few people who react like that whenever a guilty dies, it just seems a bit different to me.
But as I agree mockra could be a symp Im not sure I want to vote for him as his lynch doesnt bring us a lot and it should be the masters and the necro that we should be looking for imo. The only problem I see is that from the OP it hints that the symps are probably roled, and I dont like the idea of a roled symp running round.
Atm I think il leave my vote off as I do believe there bigger threats around but I wouldnt be adverse to lynching Mockra if we have to as some of the roles would be bad to have the symp with.

[Rashan]

Ruse, on Jan 21 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

p.s eat the dicks mate youll feel better I promise.

I bet I could eat a 100....wait, what?

On a more serious note, Thyr's reaction isnt too insane. I look at it this way. He considers himself VPI due to the fact that he didn't want to lynch Serc. Serc comes up inno, he thinks cool, I am safe. Now day 2 has started and he's getting alot of head. It can get pretty annoing. But I see it this way, Thyr could have been fake symping Serc and when Serc comes up as inno, he thinks he will be in the clear, thus he can now symp his real masters. Just a theory, but its mafia, everyone is suspect.

[Rashan]

Ruse, on Jan 21 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:59 PM, said:

Ruse, on Jan 21 2009, 08:45 AM, said:

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

Ok, I looked at HP's posts and don't see much other than the fact that he agreed that Omtose looked guilty, then after the Lio case he voted Serc, then after Serc's defense he removed vote, then after Ano made a good point about Serc's defense, he said he would be willing to put his vote back on. Not alot to go on, kind of playing safe and not commiting to anything, staying non-confrontational, but not really vote worthy, not sure really why he got so much heat at the end of day 1.

I dont like non-confrontational players. How are you supposed to find scum if you dont put pressure on people.
He is either a sheep, or he pushing any players train that is not scum.

Yeah, but it's day 1. Many players don't even post (see Tennes and Gay Lord) so they could be seen as non-confrontational. I mean sure, it should be addressed, but to try and get that person lynched for it, when there are better candidates for the same thing strikes me as a bit odd. Anyway, thats my opinion.

huh?

oh and its day 2 btw

I meant that at the time HP was brought up as a suspect, it was day 1.

[Thyrllan]

Damn that im jumping at it.
I'm pissed off:

1. I told you all yesterday, serc is inno. Did you listen. Did you bollocks.
2. And now you're saying that because I told you all he was inno, im suddenly scum myself.

Where the fuck did I say shit about preferring a no lynch.
I would have preffered someone else. Because serc was inno.

It may be standard not to tell killers anything that may help them, but that doesnt.
Yes, it may have shown them a way to communicate.
BUT.
If they hadn't thought of it already, then they'd be new to the concept, wont be good at it, and it'd be easier to find.
If they had already thought of it, it only aids the innos.

I play worst case scenario.
Assuming we had a necro and creature who hadn't thought of a way to communicate their wishes, is NOT worst case scenario.

Worst case scenario is they'd already thought of it.
Therefore, serc saying what he said aids them nothing.

So go ahead and play the lovely scenarios where the killers kill the creatures and creatures wipe out the killers, and we win without doing anything, but while you're off in fantasy land, i'll be playing WCS thank you.

[Thyrllan]

Rashan, on Jan 21 2009, 02:05 PM, said:

Ruse, on Jan 21 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

p.s eat the dicks mate youll feel better I promise.

I bet I could eat a 100....wait, what?

On a more serious note, Thyr's reaction isnt too insane. I look at it this way. He considers himself VPI due to the fact that he didn't want to lynch Serc. Serc comes up inno, he thinks cool, I am safe. Now day 2 has started and he's getting alot of head. It can get pretty annoing. But I see it this way, Thyr could have been fake symping Serc and when Serc comes up as inno, he thinks he will be in the clear, thus he can now symp his real masters. Just a theory, but its mafia, everyone is suspect.

Rofl.
Actually, I didn't consider myself safe at all. Defending people strongly, however they turn up, never makes people seem inno.
Im just pissed they're being ridiculously obtuse with certain things, and playing scenarios that lead to assumptions of things being good. Assuming WCS is the best way.

[Rashan]

Thyrllan, on Jan 21 2009, 09:06 AM, said:

So go ahead and play the lovely scenarios where the killers kill the creatures and creatures wipe out the killers, and we win without doing anything, but while you're off in fantasy land, i'll be playing WCS thank you.

What is WCS? Also, over reactive Thyr is over reacting!