[Shadow]

@ Meanas

Fair enough- that sounds reasonable to me. I'm hoping Serc is guilty then all is right with the world

[Shadow]

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 09:54 AM, said:

hmm, interesting, good job Shadow
of all these votes, I dislike Hood's Path's the most, I think.

His was the most suspicious to me as well, like he was trying to say something with out saying anything original at all. vote 6 on a 12 person train is a very safe cozy place to be.

I'll say this again though. I did that train analysis based on a Inno CF. (as thats usually what we get day 1). Things change quite a bit if he comes up Necro or Psycho.

[Meanas]

I would just like to cut in and say that the United States has a new President. Congratulations to President Barack Obama.

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 1, 5 hours 20 min left in the day

23 players still playing, 12 votes to lynch, 12 votes for night


1 Vote Galain (Fener)
1 Vote Omtose (Kessobahn)
1 Vote Thyrllan (Mockra)
3 votes Mockra (Omtose, Shadow, Thyrllan)
7 Votes Serc (Liosan, Kaschan, D'riss, Hood's Path, Meanas, Ruse, Rashan)


10 have not voted: Ampelas, Anomandaris, Emurlahn, Galain, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Korlat, Serc, Silanah, Tennes.

[Path-Shaper]

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

I would just like to cut in and say that the United States has a new President. Congratulations to President Barack Obama.

hear hear!

[Serc]

Right, I'm back, nice to see I've garnered seven votes. Reading over, back for my defence soon.

[Emurlahn]

ah Serc, I see you. Care to speak to us?

Also in terms of lynch, don't forget that someone has a vote that counts twice. So if/when we get to L-1/-2 that is dangerously close if people wanted to wait.

EDIT- cross post with Serc

This post has been edited by Emurlahn: 20 January 2009 - 06:10 PM

[Hood's Path]

I'm not sure why you find my statement and vote suspicious. I was simply pointing out the fact that Serc's comments did not seem troublesome until you look at them as a whole. Lisoan's post came as part of my first opportunity to look at all of the posts once I signed in for the morning. I came to the conclusion after reading through everyone's comments. I really don't see the advantage of using the bp right away and having a repeat of day one. Serc's actions seem to be far more suspicious than the statements made by Omtose at the outset of the game. I did state I wasn't 100% convinced, he just stands out at the moment. I'm still interested in what Serc has to say for himself, I will be around so I can still change my vote. I wasn't one of those who voted and then said I was leaving or waffled after making my coments. For now my vote stands, we'll see what Serc has to say.

[Kessobahn]

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 04:39 PM, said:

Sorry for the lack of posts today but I am getting really slammed in work.

I am quite nervous by how quickly the train has grown though. That is eight votes and serc hasn't had a chance to respond to any of the points made against him. I believe we still have quite a long time left today, but as i am unsure if i will be on later i am leaving my vote where it is. Could someone who will be on closer to the deadline and has voted remove temporarily? Or at least can i urge patience until Serc speaks and is given a chance to address the points i made.

I like how you distance yourself from the lynch train you created. This is about the sneakiest way to try to dodge blame if Serc comes up innocent and I do not like it one bit. You're not on the top of my list yet (mainly because I try my best to avoid meta), but you've climbed quite far in just that little piece of yours.

and my list, for those who wonder:
Emurlahn
Omtose
Fener

... Which I guess warrants a change in votes.

Emurlahn

[Serc]

Well, I think this is rather interesting. Up till now I haven't garnered any attention from Liosan at all, but the moment I said I slightly suspect him last night, I get a massive case piled on me, and then a massive pile on? Obvious scum are obvious. Give me a moment to read his case in its entirity please. Back in several.

[Kessobahn]

I just noticed the time left in the day.. I guess, if push comes to show and there is one vote left waiting and a short time left of the day, I will place the last voye. Sorry Serc but without a lynch this day will have been all but useless.

Mind you, I still think an emurlahn or an omtose lynch will be better

[Serc]

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

PART 1

This case isnt that comprehensive, it is day 1 and my suspicions are a gut feeling based on the way serc seems to be spreading our attention toward quite a lot of players. It is quite hard on day 1 to get a solid lynch based on suspicions and i feel on day 1 a symp would be trying hard to keep attention away from his masters and to muddy the field on the innos. To begin then.

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 20 2009, 05:08 AM, said:

Hood's Path, on Jan 19 2009, 04:59 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 19 2009, 07:50 AM, said:

it will always be gut on the first day, and in all honesty I am of two minds about Omtose. For one I don't like the post and the nervousness it radiates, but at the same time I do recognice that small things become huge in the absence of larger blocks of information – which is essentially why day 1 lynches are as odd as they are – ergo I may be less objective in this regard than I would've liked. Omtose is a strong player, if a bit too willing to parrot my every say in an attempt to seem wise, and so I am not quite convinced we should move to lynch him today..

But at the same time, he seems to guilty!

He does seem very guilty! The thing about it is he's not really doing anything to deny the guilt. It seems odd to me, at first he was nervous about it and now he's throwing it all out there in a way. Very erratic behaviour! An attempt at some reverse psychology perhaps?

the best way to avoid this kind of thing is to ignore it.. unless someone latches on. Unfortunately for the killers, it's often difficult to do that.

Middle-of-the-roading, boys. I don't like it, but its not actually a scum tactic, not all the time anyway.
Kessobahn, seems to be like thats a bit of symping. "Omtose is a strong player... and so I am not quite convinced we should move to lynch him today." That's not only middle of the roading, its keeping the attention on him in a subtle way, making us watch him, and making Kess seem like he's posting solid content. Of course at the same time we should just "ignore it". While I can see Omtose being guilty, the only time any "suspicious post" gets scum lynched Day One is when its a drunken post
Vote Kessobahn

A vote on kessobahn, i actually agree with some of the points as saying we need to watch people is irrelevant as of course we need to carefully examine everyone so in essence he is doing exactly what kessobahn is doing.So you agree with it yet use it as evidence because Im saying it Kesso? Strong evidence, mate.

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 05:34 PM, said:

You're voting the guy who's being symped?
Where is the logic in that?
Symps don't blatantly symp their masters, I'm sorry, if you are going to vote for me make up a weakness in my argument against Kesso or something, not "He's being symped".

If a player actually believes you are being symped why would they not vote for you? You make the point a few times about the noobishness of some players and put things down to noobish mistakes. Something fener is also prone to do. What is to say emurlahn isn't your symp? We are trying to find the killers, and although finding the symps is important it is ultimately a means to finding the people they have been protecting. Another generalisation, but a good point in the end, cases need to be based on what you regard as evidence.If I'm being symped, I've been symped a number of times, by many different players, sort of suggesting that I am not anyone's master, and they are trying to get me lynched, such as your unusually fast train on me.

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 05:44 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on Jan 20 2009, 06:40 AM, said:

Serc, by your logic, we should leave alone anyone being symped, since symps never symp there masters. Thats convinient.
However, Emur could just be looking for an easy train to hide on, and I cant recall him posting much else, so he seems to be avoiding attention.

By my logic, you should come up with a reason for voting someone, because its easy for symps to fake-symp someone, provoke your kind of reaction, and then try to start a train on that person, or just let it happen itself. I think if you want to vote me for being symped, at least also come up with a second reason based on my play style. Let that be a lesson for future games.

Again i agree with your first point, but not the second. A player can vote for another player if they feel that player is being actively symped. At some point in the game symps must make some form of signal to their masters to avoid a night kill, which is one of the reasons why i originally voted for omtose as the killer reveal seemed like a possible symp saying, here i am master i am on you team.
So you agree with some and disagree with others? Play style argument that has no leanings toward being suspicious? If you recall in the game where DiBs and Korlat were killers, before Korlat added the final vote Lisheo asked him for an argument. He didn't give it. If an argument is hastly made, well, you make my list for possible scum, same with "symping". It's too easy.

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

Because that was why Thyrllan originally voted me. Then Mockra attacks him out of the blue. I've only made the connection now that could be considered defending me.

The reasoning is valid, but this is possibly the second symping attempt by a player on you.Aye?

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

The thing about Kesso's votes is, why would any of the scum leap on that train that early? The scum usually join in the middle/end, after all. Its possible that one of them was scum, but if both were, they have made a very very foolish mistake.

Now you are defending players who followed your votes, one of them, emurlahn who others suspected of symping you. You also follow this up with a classic malazan mafia line regarding the foolishness of how killers would never do something. I inherently dislike these sweeping generalisations and they have been proved false many times.Well, iirc, neither of them joined the Doom Train within seconds, completely swayed by your rather ineffective arguments.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 12:52 AM, said:

Ah okay, cule You know, I think it would probably be in everyone's best interest to take out the Cult, they seem the biggest danger atm. I know I'd rather have one nk, then one kill and recruit...

Now that the killers are in the limelight you begin to examine the cult and hope attention moves away from symps and killers toward the 'big' threat of the necromancers. This to me seems like a way of nullifying that mornings play as you have found yourself involved in a few discussions that are probably too close to the bone for a killer. It is also a very strong scare tactic and is immeadiately picked up by a few players and begins a long section of role distribution talk, which as long as it stays within the confines of evil teams is fine, but you stray into the usage of a particular innocent role.So, I discuss roles and their usage, esp the Witch? Fair enough, you want to discuss Killers, let's discuss them, but once you've played a few games of this, you've discussed all you can about them.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:02 AM, said:

Anomandaris, I want you to think about the roles for a second. They can have at least one guaranteed recruit a night.

This is just wrong, how can they have a guaranteed recruit? You are pushing attention onto the necromancers and either away from yourself, or from your master.
FFS if the Creature codes a hint and they are smart enough to pick up on it, thanks for making me post that so that they will do it.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:23 AM, said:

Their creature can hint it in code or something. And Im assuming with 23 of us they get to block four tonight, thats a high chance of getting someone in fairness.
As we are going to get an inno down today in a lynch, lets face it, we could in all possibility be down four innos tomorrow.
I think if we have a witch, we might need our BP tonight, as I asked PS, and that would also negate recruitment.

Now we get to where i find most disturbing. I am unsure why you throw in about talking to path-shaper, the role is clearly explained in the opening posts. The necromancers recruit the recently dead, if no one dies, there is no recruitment, what did you have to clarify?

As they block a nk anyway, I was concerned that even if the witch used the BP, it wouldn't matter. Just making sure.

[Ampelas]

Path-Shaper, on Jan 20 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 06:07 PM, said:

I would just like to cut in and say that the United States has a new President. Congratulations to President Barack Obama.

hear hear!

Isnt this his inauguration party ?

[Serc]

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

PART 2

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:46 AM, said:

Well, I was assuming that even a blocked blocked nk would stop em, so I had to clarify it. I personally don't like Kesso much myself, but Im not suspicious of him, nor am I suspicious of Omtose.
Rashan and Galain annoy me, truly.
With two Necros, it'd just be good luck if both were new players, I think we have to assume they are dangerous.
And yeah I think we need a BP tonight.

You voted for kessobahn earlier in the day and now you are clearing omtose. Yet somehow rashan and galain have entered as suspicions. So today alone you have been suspicious of kessobahn, thyrllan, mockra, rashan and galain, yet your sole vote was on kessobahn and you never go into any of your suspicions.
Annoy doesnt mean suspicious. When has annoy EVER meant suspicious?

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:48 AM, said:

Fener, on Jan 20 2009, 01:44 AM, said:

I don't think the BP is probably not a good move tonight. Without it we're totally vulnerable for the rest of the game. Don't know if it's worth it tonight.

The longer the game goes on the more chance the witch has of being nked and losing her BP. We need to use it early to prevent the most damage. If we use it tonight, we essentially get another Day One tomorrow.

The witch losing her nk does the same thing as her using it to protect everyone, it stops a kill from happening. Granted it would stop two, but it would also enure that the killers or creature would need to remove that player the following night again. By announcing on thread the need to use the power you have stripped it of any usefulness as there is no reason for the killers to believe their target was recruited, or the creature to believe it failed. They will know, if we followed your plan, that the witch has become powerless and been removed from the game essentially.If no nks happen, and no vig kills happen, they will figure out what has happened regardless. And the reasoning for it being, so that when one of us is lynched and comes up inno, his train can be leapt upon with fervant abandon and scum can be found.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:53 AM, said:

Its the getting another shot at Day One that most spurs me on to ask for it. We don't get that kind of chance often. Usually we mess up on Day One and go after the completely wrong players Day Two, pretty much maximising our losses.

Day one is regarded as a shot in the dark with a lynch, are you suggesting that going in to day 2 with only a day 1 train and the knowledge that we are all fair game for the killers and creature from then on in is a good position to be in? It also opens up the possibility of a fake reveal later on as a witch. What are you talking about? A fake reveal from a witch means we get scum or a symp, for defiante. Personally, I have no problems with fake reveals, they mean one scum, and from there you can make connections.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:54 AM, said:

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 01:52 AM, said:

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 08:48 PM, said:

Fener, on Jan 20 2009, 01:44 AM, said:

I don't think the BP is probably not a good move tonight. Without it we're totally vulnerable for the rest of the game. Don't know if it's worth it tonight.

The longer the game goes on the more chance the witch has of being nked and losing her BP. We need to use it early to prevent the most damage. If we use it tonight, we essentially get another Day One tomorrow.

would another Day one REALLY be a good idea, though?

as bad as they are, NKs do give us info.

NKs are usually WIFOM and we both know it. We get more info from analyzing trains. This way we have two trains to analyze, at least.

Discounting the night kills before they happen? In a game where the creature is going to target players it thinks the necromancers might target. Either you ignored that mechanic when writing this or you never considered it, but at least one of the night kills will be a calculated attempt to enable a recruitment.
Worst case scenario, which I said I already play expecting, both nks are WIFOM. And not necessarily, Liosan. But anyway.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 02:14 AM, said:

Aye, yes, that wasn't a fun mistake for us to make.
The irony is, Day One usually does end up in the lynch of an inno, not deliberately, but all the joking tends to make one of us look suspicious.

Yet you want to enjoy day 1, twice? I am somewhat confused by your motivation here.Yes, I do, because we can THEN play it WITHOUT the joking and RP, and get serious about the inno train, which has to have at least one scum on it.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 02:21 AM, said:

Im very tempted to vote D'riss, because he has what, one post, which was basically jumping on an easy target.
Any opinions?
I can pass Liosan's vote off as a joke vote, sort off.

Now we can add Driss to the list, but i am somehow exempt, how kind.I said I could pass yours off as a joke vote, and also you posted more than he did. Im going for most suspicious.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 02:33 AM, said:

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 02:28 AM, said:

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 09:26 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Jan 20 2009, 02:22 AM, said:

Serc, on Jan 19 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

Thyr seemed lynch happy, but I put it down to n00bism, for the moment.
I thought he was someone who's playstyle I knew, but now Im more convinced he's modcraft.

I'm not so sure that noobism is the response here. We have what? 3 or 4 new people in on this game or so, and I doubt that a noob is playing as one of the top posters. I would guess modcraft as well, or someone from here hiding his playstyle.

Remember Lisheo, he posted a ridiculous amount in his first game, and he was a n00b.
No one here hides their playstyle that well, let's face it, bar maybe Gem! biggrin.gif

laugh.gif, remember that Merc game when she pretended to be Yellow?

Sadly, no tongue.gif I can never remember who she pretends to be, only that I can never alt guess her!

I've never checked out a modcraft game, but I do remember someone say they can be very aggressive players, so you could be right, Ruse could be modcraft, or Westerosi, who take their Mafia super serious.
Tbh, right now I'm just going to
vote D'riss
and hope he appears.

You have named a lot of players suspicious and yet you vote Driss? i am not against the reasoning here, as a single post to vote on a growing train isn't very helpful, but voting for people to make them appear is just a way of appearing helpful in my eyes and proving your not afraid to vote.I have you and D'riss, mainly. Interesting how you posted a rather bad case on me, based on not understanding my use of the word "annoy" and my playstyle, along with my method of discussing things.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 05:16 AM, said:

Gah.
Night all
Remove Vote

Of course you do not leave the vote on, because that might make people wonder why your voting for a player who has only one post.

I will admit it is not the most compelling case, and i do have my doubts, but as day 1 cases go, there is an awful lot going on around serc, and much of it is contradictory. We had two people seeming symping him and we had an attempt to make the witch use her power on day 1. He claims suspcions about a wide variety of players but votes for a player he isnt suspicious of and votes for a second player only to remove it again before they need respond.

My vote stays where it is.

This is a completely bullshit case, and I'm amazed its managed to sway innos. If you read over this, you will notice that his only arguments are based on not liking how I play, disliking my advice given to the Witch, and also misunderstanding the word "annoy". Christ almighty, half of those posts were saying he mostly agreed with me lol. If I get lynched for that, I'm going to be fucking pissed.

[Serc]

The case has gathered far too much steam for my liking, actually. A lot of the votes were really just "I'll agree with Liosan". I'm also interested by the number of players who said they WOULDN'T be around for Days End, which is convenient, allowing them to keep votes on me and make me the only real lynch candidate. I more or less expect to be lynched now, so good luck guys, there's scum on my train, and they're obvious as fuck.

[Ampelas]

Well, that's a reasonably good defense from Serc (I see the start of a rainbow case, lol). Noone else has really jumped out at me, other than Omtose's randomness early game, so I'm going to hold my vote for the time being.

[Serc]

What actually worries me is the possibility that Lisoan, while looking scummy, esp giving an excuse for not removing his vote come Day's End, may just be someone trying to make a Day One case. As said before, for a Day One case where nothing has happened during the Day, it's not actually bad, but for it to garner THAT many votes? Can't be right.

[Shadow]

I don't suspect Liosan more than anyone else for making a case on an Inno (if you are inno). Day one is tough and you work with what you have. I like your defense Serc and don't necessarily think you are scum, hence my train analysis based on a Inno CF. If you are inno I think you are right and there are at least 2 scum on your train. Thats something good to go on. Unfortunately for us to be able to use any of that info you need to be dead and CF inno.

@ Serc- who are the main suspects you have atm? I'll gladly look at other alternatives. It's just tough to pull away from this huge amount of info that your CF would give us.... but who knows, maybe another train starts and we get even more!!! *gobbles up the info* mmmm tastes like wifom

[Mockra]

well, who would you suggest as a day 1 lynch, serc?

i'm around for most of the day, but i've got a night class, so i'll have to leave about 15 min before deadline.

[Korlat]

Awake now, sort of. Finally dragged myself out of bed ... Got some coffee, though it definitely hasn't kicked in yet. Am working on a read through.