[Hood's Path]

Well I stated my reasons for being suspicious about Kaschan earlier on. It's not just the fact that Kesso suspected him for quite a while. For me a big factor is the fact that Kesso suspected Fener and Kaschan were Necro and recruit, although I think he got the roles mixed up for the two of them. I still find it very odd that Fener never came back on to defend himself or plead his case. I think he laid low to avoid having to answer questions about Kaschan. The case against him was growing quickly and I think he knew he was going to be lynched, there was no way to derail the train. If he didn't appear though we would have no opportunity to press him on Kaschan, thus not allowing Kaschan to be further incriminated. I think he made the decision to sacrifice himself to save his master.

I know Tennes is a low poster and has had nothing of real value to say, but the case against Kaschan is much stronger. I don't want to risk voting for Tennes just because of low post count only to have him turn up inno. There's always the possibility he's new, and didn't realize how much time Mafia would take, or he could be unsure of what to do and has decided it's best to lay low. So until we have a better case on someone else I'm voting Kaschan.

Vote Kaschan

EDIt to add: Kaschan just posted his defence while I was typing this I'm going to give it a read throough now

This post has been edited by Hood's Path: 23 January 2009 - 06:21 PM

[Kaschan]

Well, that's probably lynched me with all the double voters.

Hood's Path, Kessobahn had a gut feeling on me, and a find on Fener... did you even read my posts above?

For what it's worth, you guys should take a look at Korlat tomorrow, because he started this whole ball rolling today.#

eta. damn, keep saying "double posters" instead of "double voters"

This post has been edited by Kaschan: 23 January 2009 - 06:21 PM

[Hood's Path]

I just did an edit stating your defence came up while I wast typing my post up. I'm reading through it now.

[Omtose]

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

Sil's case:

I like it. There are a few things that rub me the wrong way about the way Silanah posts it though.

1) Kaschan's consistently pushing attention onto Korlat without making a proper case, or presenting it as a case.
There is also twice a mention of Tennes, spread out over the days, so what we can conclude is that Kaschan is sticking to his guns. In that light, I dislike Silanah's statement of 'him being happy pushing a lynch on low posters that are not of his cult': jumping to assumptions here, and the target of that statement at that time was Silanah themselves.
But, the fact that Kaschan is consistent will future later, so keep it in mind.

2) the presentation of Kaschan trying to serve off Kessobahn as a liar.
He keeps the possibility open, specifically mentions it, but also says we should lynch Fener. He does present a sort of weak effort to lessen the suspicion on Fener (did nothing really scummy, it wasn't a code, we should wait for him).
Hold on, this last bit comes back later, too.

3) Kaschan 'holding off the train': plenty of people who do not want a speed lynch, I'd hardly call this unique and we should view it not by itself as a sign of being scummy (heck, I said the same thing ) but within the context of what he further says and does. See below, for he does not apply it consistently.

4) There's this gem.

Quote

Yeah, likely thing is we're just going to lynch Fener. But seems a bit rushed to lynch him without a response, if we have the chance to wait.

Having said that, haven't seen him on in a while so I reckon he's just given up the ghost and is avoiding the thread. That's what I do when I'm scum and been found out tongue.gif

eta. corrs post.

Definite weirdness. Day one - claim killer, then disappear. Day 2, vote random person when there is a massive lynch target to be addressed. Maybe Omtose is not really paying attention.

We shouldn't speedlynch, is the essence of his post. And then, I get named for weirdness exactly because I do not speed up the train, but say I am around to change votes... odd.
More, GL is called 'a random person' when his posts at that time WERE decidedly off and he WAS jumpy, and my vote on GL was exactly to both call attention to this, AND not speed the train to a premature lynch. See what he does here - cover for GL, and call attention on me. Nice diversion, especially if your cult member/recruit is going down, but there's 1 more guy to save.

5) the reactions to Korlat's vote and to Kesso's feelings.
I'm not going to say that Kessobahn was right about Kaschan also being scum. What I will say is that Kaschan has been overly dismissive of anything Kesso said after the lynch, for example, of the CF mechanic. Naturally, he knew his life would be on the line, next, if Kesso could continue his quest. Now, notice what happens what he's saying now: nothing but gut (twice in one post), he had nothing on me, no case, no evidence.

Damage control.

Added to that the brusque dismissal of GL's statements during and after Kesso's hunt on Fener by me calling attention to that as 'chasing a random person', and I a triangle of Fener, Kaschan and GL is developing as a group of scum in my mind.

Kaschan had given up on Fener where GL didn't, but GL made that defense way too clumsily. He indirectly downplays the attention I called to GL, thereby protecting a possible partner. He downplays Kesso's feelings on himself, as if proper evidence ever really mattered in Mafia... where the only solid piece of irrefutable evidence is by a confirmed finder or CF.
The gut is leading, and Morgoth has a pretty good gut.

So, all in all, I believe Kaschan is scum.
He's been covering for someone I find scummy, he's been consistently naming 2-3 people that are basically unlynchable as it stands as they are on the radar as lowposters, but haven't made slips --> giving the sense he's searching and participating, but provide a nice cover to hide behind, and he's right now defending himself by calling for facts - when he full well knows every 'fact' can be discarded or called in doubt unless a finder reveals.

Vote Kaschan

Ok, the underlined parts of your case don't mean anything. Are you trying to say that my asking people to be wary of speedlynching a player (especially with double-voters around) is inconsistent with being wary of a player coming on in the midst of the above and voting someone who had hardly anything to do with it? Because I really have to disagree. There's one thing to slow a speedlynch down, and another to vote someone who was neither of the two concerned parties.

Omtose's post here is about 50% pointing out that I've been playing reasonably, and the rest pretty much trying to satisfy his own gut feeling. The part where I talk about lynching Fener, and you conclude that's because what I'm actually doing is distancing, is nothing but speculation. Read through those posts of mine again while considering the possibility that I'm actually inno instead of scum, and you might find yourself coming to a different conclusion.

You'd decided what you thought before you ever started looking at the evidence.

Not a very good defense, mate.
The underlined parts are pretry much explained.
1) I said I would be around and would be ready to change votes. To whom? To Fener - naturally. So, I didn't rush either
2) I didn't vote for a random nobody - I voted for GL to point him out - his behavior was erratic at that time, he was jumpy - he wasn't someone who 'hardly had anything to do with it' as you call it he was a player trying to stick his neck out for Fener. Others have pointed that out again, but you repeat yourself once more by saying I voted for random person X.
2a) that's exactly part of why I vote against you, and you do it again - defending GL. Thank you for putting emphasis on this point.
2b) apparently, you use double standards. You didn't vote for Fener iirc, and warn against lynching him too fast. I come on, call attention to someone else in addition to Fener, say I'm willing to change votes (to Fener, as if that needed pointing out), and I'm suspicious and people should be wary of me. Nice, double standards there.

I'm not saying your play is reasonable, exactly, either.

I'm saying your play has allowed you to remain beneath notice - partly by going for unlynchable players like Korlat, and a lynchable players like lowposting Silanah (who picked up his game) and Tennes - players that wouldn't provide links to others in any way entirely due to the nature of their posting. seems like you like doing that.

Now, as I said, I'm dissatisfied with your defense. You're neglecting large chunks of my case against you, and once again, conveniently rail about there being no evidence, just gut. Nice, but then why don't you adress stuff more specifically, instead of dismissing it like you do?

My vote stays, and while I can be swayed by a better case, I've yet to see one come along.

[Kaschan]

Omtose, large parts of your "case" point out that I've been playing consistently and reasonably, so apologies if I don't try and contradict them.

You are trying to make out that I went onto some all out attack on you, or something, when all I did was call your vote on GL weird, which it was.

And that does not equal some kind of defence of GL either. It doesn't equal anything, tbh.

[Hood's Path]

I've read through your defence and I still see no reason for us to think Kesso was lying to us. You keep claiming he had nothing on you, but there must have been something making him suspicious enough to give him that gut feeling. Otherwise he could have just said that he believed what Emu was saying about Fenner but saw nothing in your actions that would indicate you were guilty. He clearly didn't think you were inno, he just says that he has less to go on as far as you're concerned. My vote stands.

Edit to add: What would be the point of Kesso to telling us the truth about Fenner but then lie about you?

This post has been edited by Hood's Path: 23 January 2009 - 06:43 PM

[Omtose]

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 07:31 PM, said:

Omtose, large parts of your "case" point out that I've been playing consistently and reasonably, so apologies if I don't try and contradict them.

You are trying to make out that I went onto some all out attack on you, or something, when all I did was call your vote on GL weird, which it was.

And that does not equal some kind of defence of GL either. It doesn't equal anything, tbh.

Not all out attack. Just... using it.
Also, where do I say that you play reasonably?
Point it out, cause all you do is repeat what you said before, and I for one found that one wanting.

[Kaschan]

Hood's Path, on Jan 23 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

I've read through your defence and I still see no reason for us to think Kesso was lying to us. You keep claiming he had nothing on you, but there must have been something making him suspicious enough to give him that gut feeling. Otherwise he could have just said that he believed what Emu was saying about Fenner but saw nothing in your actions that would indicate you were guilty. He clearly didn't think you were inno, he just says that he has less to go on as far as you're concerned. My vote stands.

Man, what? My point was not that he was lying to us (the bloody CF of Fener proved that!), it was that he had no evidence on me other than his gut feeling.

Why do you trust Kessobahn's gut feeling more than mine, or more than Tennes? Or more than anyone's, in fact?

Is it because Emurlahn gave him the name of the person he tried to kill? Because if it is, you have to re-evaluate.

[Kaschan]

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 06:43 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 07:31 PM, said:

Omtose, large parts of your "case" point out that I've been playing consistently and reasonably, so apologies if I don't try and contradict them.

You are trying to make out that I went onto some all out attack on you, or something, when all I did was call your vote on GL weird, which it was.

And that does not equal some kind of defence of GL either. It doesn't equal anything, tbh.

Not all out attack. Just... using it.
Also, where do I say that you play reasonably?
Point it out, cause all you do is repeat what you said before, and I for one found that one wanting.

Give me two secs.

[Kaschan]

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 11:22 AM, said:

Sil's case:

I like it. There are a few things that rub me the wrong way about the way Silanah posts it though.

1) Kaschan's consistently pushing attention onto Korlat without making a proper case, or presenting it as a case.
There is also twice a mention of Tennes, spread out over the days, so what we can conclude is that Kaschan is sticking to his guns. In that light, I dislike Silanah's statement of 'him being happy pushing a lynch on low posters that are not of his cult': jumping to assumptions here, and the target of that statement at that time was Silanah themselves.
But, the fact that Kaschan is consistent will future later, so keep it in mind.

2) the presentation of Kaschan trying to serve off Kessobahn as a liar.
He keeps the possibility open, specifically mentions it, but also says we should lynch Fener. He does present a sort of weak effort to lessen the suspicion on Fener (did nothing really scummy, it wasn't a code, we should wait for him).
Hold on, this last bit comes back later, too.

3) Kaschan 'holding off the train': plenty of people who do not want a speed lynch, I'd hardly call this unique and we should view it not by itself as a sign of being scummy (heck, I said the same thing ) but within the context of what he further says and does. See below, for he does not apply it consistently.

4) There's this gem.

Quote

Yeah, likely thing is we're just going to lynch Fener. But seems a bit rushed to lynch him without a response, if we have the chance to wait.

Having said that, haven't seen him on in a while so I reckon he's just given up the ghost and is avoiding the thread. That's what I do when I'm scum and been found out tongue.gif

eta. corrs post.

Definite weirdness. Day one - claim killer, then disappear. Day 2, vote random person when there is a massive lynch target to be addressed. Maybe Omtose is not really paying attention.

Basically, the rest of your case after this point is trying to convince yourself that even though I've not done anything inconsistent or contradictory (which you've just spent time pointing out), I'm actually doing exactly that.

I've already posted as to why those two underlined parts do not contradict each other.

Seriously, man, go back and read my posts under the assumption that I'm not scum, and you'll realise you went into the whole thing assuming I'm guilty from the start.

[Kaschan]

Also, I'm going out for a meal in about 30 mins, so if you have questions, beat me to death with them now

[Hood's Path]

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 12:45 PM, said:

Hood's Path, on Jan 23 2009, 06:42 PM, said:

I've read through your defence and I still see no reason for us to think Kesso was lying to us. You keep claiming he had nothing on you, but there must have been something making him suspicious enough to give him that gut feeling. Otherwise he could have just said that he believed what Emu was saying about Fenner but saw nothing in your actions that would indicate you were guilty. He clearly didn't think you were inno, he just says that he has less to go on as far as you're concerned. My vote stands.

Man, what? My point was not that he was lying to us (the bloody CF of Fener proved that!), it was that he had no evidence on me other than his gut feeling.

Why do you trust Kessobahn's gut feeling more than mine, or more than Tennes? Or more than anyone's, in fact?

Is it because Emurlahn gave him the name of the person he tried to kill? Because if it is, you have to re-evaluate.

What I'm saying is that you keep implying there was nothing on you other than a gut feeling. That's not actually true. If Kesso thought you were inno and Emu was trying to mislead us he would have stated it. He doesn't say he has nothing to go on as far as you're concerned, just that he has less on you than he did on Fenner. I think you're trying to deflect our attention here and put everything down to a gut feeling. If as you claim your behaviour was not at all suspicious why wouldn't Kesso say you didn't seem like scum and tell us he thought Emu was lying about you?

[Omtose]

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

Also, I'm going out for a meal in about 30 mins, so if you have questions, beat me to death with them now

Nah, we're just running in circles. I don't get my question answered, and your 'answer' has been the same three times, so I'll leave it at that - either we don't understand one another, or we just fail to see each others point.
I find your behaviour and the pushing for out-of-reach, deliver-nothing targets a convenient way to stay off the radar, you apparently not, yet at no point did you ever justify their pursuit.
You clearly feel it isn't so, and that that is reasonable play, doesn't need a justification, and know my reasons for posting and what my posts contain better than I do.

No point in talking about it further - and since I'm not going to get you lynched by myself, either and it matters how others perceive this whole affair that will decide whether we lynch you or not, no reason to either.

[Kaschan]

Hood's Path, on Jan 23 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

What I'm saying is that you keep implying there was nothing on you other than a gut feeling. That's not actually true. If Kesso thought you were inno and Emu was trying to mislead us he would have stated it. He doesn't say he has nothing to go on as far as you're concerned, just that he has less on you than he did on Fenner. I think you're trying to deflect our attention here and put everything down to a gut feeling. If as you claim your behaviour was not at all suspicious why wouldn't Kesso say you didn't seem like scum and tell us he thought Emu was lying about you?

Point out to me the evidence that Kesso had about me. Find that post.

[Shadow]

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

So along with Morgoth's feelings. (he has been amazing in the games I have played)

See what I mean? Morgoth's gut feeling must be right, because he's been amazing in the games Shadow has played.

Damn, just lynch me now, it's open and shut.

Way to take the main reason I voted for you out of my quote. Thats not suspicious at all. You sir are Necro scum

[Kaschan]

Omtose, on Jan 23 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

Also, I'm going out for a meal in about 30 mins, so if you have questions, beat me to death with them now

Nah, we're just running in circles. I don't get my question answered, and your 'answer' has been the same three times, so I'll leave it at that - either we don't understand one another, or we just fail to see each others point.
I find your behaviour and the pushing for out-of-reach, deliver-nothing targets a convenient way to stay off the radar, you apparently not, yet at no point did you ever justify their pursuit.
You clearly feel it isn't so, and that that is reasonable play, doesn't need a justification, and know my reasons for posting and what my posts contain better than I do.

No point in talking about it further - and since I'm not going to get you lynched by myself, either and it matters how others perceive this whole affair that will decide whether we lynch you or not, no reason to either.

See my above post. Kesso never posted a goddamned shred of anything backing up why he was suspicious of me. He even stated that he didn't have much on me.

It's not surprising really that you find my behaviour strange. You're convinced I'm scum, whereas I'm saying I'm not.

Not really much to add to that synopsis, is there?

[Kaschan]

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 07:04 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

Shadow, on Jan 23 2009, 05:09 PM, said:

So along with Morgoth's feelings. (he has been amazing in the games I have played)

See what I mean? Morgoth's gut feeling must be right, because he's been amazing in the games Shadow has played.

Damn, just lynch me now, it's open and shut.

Way to take the main reason I voted for you out of my quote. Thats not suspicious at all. You sir are Necro scum

I was making a point. Which completely stands. This entire thing has been based on Morgoth's "amazingness", which not only is not founded on anything, it's also proved to be counterproductive (i.e. his reveal, and the whole unnecessary part of it).

This post has been edited by Kaschan: 23 January 2009 - 07:06 PM

[Omtose]

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 08:03 PM, said:

Hood's Path, on Jan 23 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

What I'm saying is that you keep implying there was nothing on you other than a gut feeling. That's not actually true. If Kesso thought you were inno and Emu was trying to mislead us he would have stated it. He doesn't say he has nothing to go on as far as you're concerned, just that he has less on you than he did on Fenner. I think you're trying to deflect our attention here and put everything down to a gut feeling. If as you claim your behaviour was not at all suspicious why wouldn't Kesso say you didn't seem like scum and tell us he thought Emu was lying about you?

Point out to me the evidence that Kesso had about me. Find that post.

And there we go again. You must be a top-rank athlete for all the circles you run, sir. Either that, or incredibly dizzy from spinning round so fast.

[Kaschan]

Ah, what? You can't use "no evidence" as "evidence".

You just can't. The reason I'm coming back to Kesso is because every single case against me today has been based upon people assuming that he had something on me, and then going back at my posts, and picking out the bits that fit that assumption.

I'm just trying to point out that Kesso didn't have any evidence, and the rest pretty much falls like dominoes.

[Meanas]

Ok other then Kaschan (who's defense I have read and will comment on after I post this case) and Tennes scummy behavior of lying bloody low and not even being able to be bothered to read up on cases or lynches that happen the page before. I am highly supicious of Galayn lord due to his reactions when Kesso revealed and targeted Fener.

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 22 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

I asked Emurlahn whom they targeted for a night kill, knowing that the killers want the cult dead as much as the innocents do, if perhaps not more so. Emurlahn, trying to be sneaky said that he targeted either Kessobahn or Fener. He must be tearing his hair about not picking another alt there .. But I was not targeted, so that leaves Fener, and it got me thinknin: If I was the necro, who would I target the first day? And it hit me I probably would've targeted myself. Night 1, trying to predict the night kills is nigh impossible unless there's been a reveal. By protecting themselves, the Necromancers insured they'd not fall to an unlucky shot. After all, with them gone the faction goes with them and they automatically lose the game. They still had one to use on someone else too.

I am convinced that Fener is the Necromancer, and when he comes up guilty, I believe we should go for Kaschan next, though here I have less to go on.

Fener

Wait you're saying that based on questioning emurlahn and him saying that he targetted either you or Fener that Fener must be the Necromancer? That doesnt make any sense, for the person to have survived they must have been recuited and hence arent the necromancer, or there BP or got healed but I dont see how it points at them being the necromancer really.
Im not entirely sure I believe this reveal as your conclusions seem to make no sense. So i think its more likely that you've revealed medium to try and halt the case on you.
because of this and for the reasons i posted earlier
remove vote
Vote Kessobahn

Obviously doesn't realize that the necros targeting themselves is basically a BP. Instead of processing kesso information and asking him questions like other people were doing he puts a quick vote on kesso. Looks like a paniced reaction to seeing his new recruit or partner being outed.

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Actually thinking about it il give someone time to contradict you as its probably too early to get away with fake revealing , but I still think that your conclusions stink
remove vote

Now he realizes what that vote makes him look like. Plus the fact that nobody was following him in voting for Kesso.

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 02:03 PM, said:

Ruse, on Jan 22 2009, 02:00 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 02:58 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 22 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

I asked Emurlahn whom they targeted for a night kill, knowing that the killers want the cult dead as much as the innocents do, if perhaps not more so. Emurlahn, trying to be sneaky said that he targeted either Kessobahn or Fener. He must be tearing his hair about not picking another alt there .. But I was not targeted, so that leaves Fener, and it got me thinknin: If I was the necro, who would I target the first day? And it hit me I probably would've targeted myself. Night 1, trying to predict the night kills is nigh impossible unless there's been a reveal. By protecting themselves, the Necromancers insured they'd not fall to an unlucky shot. After all, with them gone the faction goes with them and they automatically lose the game. They still had one to use on someone else too.

I am convinced that Fener is the Necromancer, and when he comes up guilty, I believe we should go for Kaschan next, though here I have less to go on.

Fener

Wait you're saying that based on questioning emurlahn and him saying that he targetted either you or Fener that Fener must be the Necromancer? That doesnt make any sense, for the person to have survived they must have been recuited and hence arent the necromancer, or there BP or got healed but I dont see how it points at them being the necromancer really.
Im not entirely sure I believe this reveal as your conclusions seem to make no sense. So i think its more likely that you've revealed medium to try and halt the case on you.
because of this and for the reasons i posted earlier
remove vote
Vote Kessobahn

Erm...what if he IS the medium.
Eager to get rid of the CF hey?

No it just struck me as pure desperation because of the flawed reasoning. I dint quite think through it enough. Now im just hoping that Serc wasnt the medium.

Now he is trying to say that Kesso was showing desperation. I just think that Morgoth wanted to get rid of a scum and probably thought that he would get protected that first night. I don't agree with Morgoth's decision to reveal but if he looked at the odds and thought that he might die anyway in the next night or day that it might have been worth it to have taken a scum out with him. Galayn Lord reaks of desperation at this point and seems to be doing every thing he can to draw attention or toss dirt on Kesso and his reveal.

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 02:05 PM, said:

Or he could very well be telling the truth about being medium, that doesnt stop him from being the recruit. Especially as he himself says he could have been targetted by emurlahn. In a game like this Its not safe to assume that the people with these roles are innocents.

More dirt tossing. Now several people were thinking similar things but were applying them to the next day not to the reveal itself.

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 02:05 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 22 2009, 02:04 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 03:03 PM, said:

Ruse, on Jan 22 2009, 02:00 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 02:58 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 22 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

I asked Emurlahn whom they targeted for a night kill, knowing that the killers want the cult dead as much as the innocents do, if perhaps not more so. Emurlahn, trying to be sneaky said that he targeted either Kessobahn or Fener. He must be tearing his hair about not picking another alt there .. But I was not targeted, so that leaves Fener, and it got me thinknin: If I was the necro, who would I target the first day? And it hit me I probably would've targeted myself. Night 1, trying to predict the night kills is nigh impossible unless there's been a reveal. By protecting themselves, the Necromancers insured they'd not fall to an unlucky shot. After all, with them gone the faction goes with them and they automatically lose the game. They still had one to use on someone else too.

I am convinced that Fener is the Necromancer, and when he comes up guilty, I believe we should go for Kaschan next, though here I have less to go on.

Fener

Wait you're saying that based on questioning emurlahn and him saying that he targetted either you or Fener that Fener must be the Necromancer? That doesnt make any sense, for the person to have survived they must have been recuited and hence arent the necromancer, or there BP or got healed but I dont see how it points at them being the necromancer really.
Im not entirely sure I believe this reveal as your conclusions seem to make no sense. So i think its more likely that you've revealed medium to try and halt the case on you.
because of this and for the reasons i posted earlier
remove vote
Vote Kessobahn

Erm...what if he IS the medium.
Eager to get rid of the CF hey?

No it just struck me as pure desperation because of the flawed reasoning. I dint quite think through it enough. Now im just hoping that Serc wasnt the medium.

If serc was the medium, we would not have received the cf

Oh yeah forgot about that part of the role

A mistake made in desperation that he is trying to pass off as being due to his lack of reading the thread.

Galayn Lord, on Jan 22 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

PS clarified earlier that the dead are allowed to lie in there response. But yeah Il agree I dont think hed have had much reason to lie there. Il give you the benefit of the doubt for now but I dont like the reasoning you used, It just seems too stupid like it was a last minute addition out of desperation to stop your train.

More desperation. This has been broken down into two posts.