[Liosan]

Sorry guys, I haven't had a chance to read the thread yet, but our mail system is on the blink and i have been flat out for over an hour, bloody managers bypass change control and wonder why everything goes tits up I will check back in later, when i get time to read what happened yesterday.

[Galain]

I think people just started leaping to flase conclusions based on the fact that there were 2 hidden votes on the day 1 lynch, and the executioner and twin role descriptions being next to each other.

[Silanah]

One last post before I go

Twins: Born together, you do everything together. You even have the same costume. The Twins can communicate off-thread at all times.

Same costume is what the role says. That means it could be added to roles meaning there could be 2 players with the same costume i.e. 2 executioners who can talk off thread.

[D'riss]

Silanah, on Jan 23 2009, 10:52 AM, said:

One last post before I go

Twins: Born together, you do everything together. You even have the same costume. The Twins can communicate off-thread at all times.

Same costume is what the role says. That means it could be added to roles meaning there could be 2 players with the same costume i.e. 2 executioners who can talk off thread.

Yes it's theoretically possible, but it is more likely imho that an inno executioner and a symp executioner were both on the train.

[Omtose]

Sil's case:

I like it. There are a few things that rub me the wrong way about the way Silanah posts it though.

1) Kaschan's consistently pushing attention onto Korlat without making a proper case, or presenting it as a case.
There is also twice a mention of Tennes, spread out over the days, so what we can conclude is that Kaschan is sticking to his guns. In that light, I dislike Silanah's statement of 'him being happy pushing a lynch on low posters that are not of his cult': jumping to assumptions here, and the target of that statement at that time was Silanah themselves.
But, the fact that Kaschan is consistent will future later, so keep it in mind.

2) the presentation of Kaschan trying to serve off Kessobahn as a liar.
He keeps the possibility open, specifically mentions it, but also says we should lynch Fener. He does present a sort of weak effort to lessen the suspicion on Fener (did nothing really scummy, it wasn't a code, we should wait for him).
Hold on, this last bit comes back later, too.

3) Kaschan 'holding off the train': plenty of people who do not want a speed lynch, I'd hardly call this unique and we should view it not by itself as a sign of being scummy (heck, I said the same thing ) but within the context of what he further says and does. See below, for he does not apply it consistently.

4) There's this gem.

Quote

Yeah, likely thing is we're just going to lynch Fener. But seems a bit rushed to lynch him without a response, if we have the chance to wait.

Having said that, haven't seen him on in a while so I reckon he's just given up the ghost and is avoiding the thread. That's what I do when I'm scum and been found out tongue.gif

eta. corrs post.

Definite weirdness. Day one - claim killer, then disappear. Day 2, vote random person when there is a massive lynch target to be addressed. Maybe Omtose is not really paying attention.

We shouldn't speedlynch, is the essence of his post. And then, I get named for weirdness exactly because I do not speed up the train, but say I am around to change votes... odd.
More, GL is called 'a random person' when his posts at that time WERE decidedly off and he WAS jumpy, and my vote on GL was exactly to both call attention to this, AND not speed the train to a premature lynch. See what he does here - cover for GL, and call attention on me. Nice diversion, especially if your cult member/recruit is going down, but there's 1 more guy to save.

5) the reactions to Korlat's vote and to Kesso's feelings.
I'm not going to say that Kessobahn was right about Kaschan also being scum. What I will say is that Kaschan has been overly dismissive of anything Kesso said after the lynch, for example, of the CF mechanic. Naturally, he knew his life would be on the line, next, if Kesso could continue his quest. Now, notice what happens what he's saying now: nothing but gut (twice in one post), he had nothing on me, no case, no evidence.

Damage control.

Added to that the brusque dismissal of GL's statements during and after Kesso's hunt on Fener by me calling attention to that as 'chasing a random person', and I a triangle of Fener, Kaschan and GL is developing as a group of scum in my mind.

Kaschan had given up on Fener where GL didn't, but GL made that defense way too clumsily. He indirectly downplays the attention I called to GL, thereby protecting a possible partner. He downplays Kesso's feelings on himself, as if proper evidence ever really mattered in Mafia... where the only solid piece of irrefutable evidence is by a confirmed finder or CF.
The gut is leading, and Morgoth has a pretty good gut.

So, all in all, I believe Kaschan is scum.
He's been covering for someone I find scummy, he's been consistently naming 2-3 people that are basically unlynchable as it stands as they are on the radar as lowposters, but haven't made slips --> giving the sense he's searching and participating, but provide a nice cover to hide behind, and he's right now defending himself by calling for facts - when he full well knows every 'fact' can be discarded or called in doubt unless a finder reveals.

Vote Kaschan

[Liosan]

Ok i have read up in a skim read while i have a few minutes, but haven't had time to study the cases yet so I am just going to comment on the lynch etc. Do we know if fener was a necromancer or a recruit? I looked at the start and it just seems to all come under undead so i am not sure, and no one seems to have mentioned it yet.

Despite my misgivings about the reveal I am glad we managed to hit a know undead, and i do agree that following through with pressure on morgoth's second suspect is a good idea but i won't vote until i have had time to digest the case properly. I am also pleased by the increase in Silanah's content, it just goes to show that not posting much on day 1 is no indication of how a player will finish the game.

Now onto the night kills, which are a mixed bag as far as i am concerned. I like to always get the good news first, a little bit of sugar helps the medicine go down. Two deaths mean that the necromancers didn't recruit, either they didn't expect the creature or killer to attack morgoth, or they were worried he would be lynched. Which leads to my second point, the trust issue with morgoth until end game would have become an issue, and although we lost our medium (rant coming) we at least will not lynch our medium which would be too bitter a pill.

The bad news. Just what morgoth was thinking is beyond me, if fener was a recruit that has to be the most monumentally stupid move he has ever made. To think that the cf isnt that important is just crazy. The killers and the necromancers have no need of a coroner finder they know the winning conditions and need to remove players until they have an advantage. The killers team isn't getting any bigger, so they know they must kill X amount of players, while the necromancers know exactly how many players they have. We on the other hand are bereft now of making light of the trains formed because we will not know if we were right or not. Until the game is over we are flying blind!

(rant over)

I am unsure what to make of the ampelas death, i would assume the killers are selecting targets based solely on who they think aren't going to be recruited.

Right it is my lunch time, i will be back on later, and as i am visiting home this weekend i should have internet access outside working hours until sunday so will be more active.

[Galain]

You're right about the reveal. I still don't quite comprehend why he would do that. Was it really worth it to reveal an undead, who may or may not be a necromancer? I think not.

I take your point about Silanah, but I feel that the best time to lynch non-contributors is when there isn't a good case against someone, and that is the usual day 1 situation.

[Rashan]

I have very little time today. I caught up and am now going to

Vote Tennes

if you can't be arsed to play, thats cool, but at least when you post try to add to the conversation. I'll try to get on later today.

[Galayn Lord]

Ok well that was a surprise, I dont know why Ampelas was killed, I cant really remember much that he's done so Il assume that was the killer trying to pick an unlikely recruit target. I was expecting kesso to get recruited so at the moment il assume that a guard managed to hit the recruiter.
Now this Kaschan thing does look suspicious, Im wary about lynching someone based on the hunch of one person but There do seem to be a lot of inconsistencies and suspicious play brought up by Omtose and Silanahs case so he may be the best bet of hitting a necro. I will try and properly go back and get a better impression later but I dont have a lot of time atm.

On the executioner thing I think it is probably more likely that we have 2 independant executioners and that its probably 1 symp and 1 inno but thats just a guess.

[Galain]

I found something that may be slightly useful when looking at the rules to figure out whether this game has weekend breaks (I don't like those):

Quote

IF MORE THAN ONE PLAYER HAVE THE SAME ROLE, THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE PAIRED AS "TWINS". IF THEY ARE, THEY SHARE A SINGLE NIGHT ACTION.

I think this makes it clear that there aren't twinned executioners, as the above suggests that if the twins have roles, they would be roles involving a night action. Hopefully this stops people talking about that.

[Galain]

Dead thread dead said head fed red bed lead wed z

[Anomandaris]

Mockra, on Jan 22 2009, 07:47 PM, said:

Medium is our main weapon agains the cult
as fro waht we can do--the witch can use her power ot prevent Kesso's recruitment, provided he wasn't recruited already.
If the psychic looks at him and he's not undead, the psychic can just not say anything tomorrow.
if he's undead, then the psychic speaks up and we get rid of him.

This post stood out to me as I was catching up. Why would anyone encourage the psychic to reveal at this point? As Team Inno, we should be keeping our finder hidden until the late game when he will actually be useful. Scummy behaviour, IMO. Unfortunately I don't have the time to look back through his posts and find some other choice tidbits, but I'll place my vote now and if noone else steps up to the plate I'll have a bash later when I'll have more time.


Vote Mockra

[D'riss]

I've had a look at a few people today but no one is standing out as particularly scummy to me atm.

Well, I'm here for a couple more hours but in the hope of inspiring some reaction from him and for the reasons I posted yesterday

Vote Tennes

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 3, 25 hours left in the day

17 players still playing, 9 votes to lynch, 9 votes for night

3 vote for Kaschan (Korlat, Silanah, Omtose)
2 votes for Tennes (Rashan, D'riss)
1 vote for Mockra (Anomandaris)

11 have not voted: Galain, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Ruse, Shadow, Tennes, Thyrllan.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 23 January 2009 - 02:56 PM

[Ruse]

Well, im away for the weekend.
Will see if i can find some internet access though.

[Liosan]

Ok, i have some time left before i go home and will comment on the merits of the voting so far and put a vote on myself. We have quite a lot of time, but i can see a few cases with some good points.

kaschan - There is evidence that they delayed on the fener case. Morgoth had them pegged down as tied with fener. There is a general feeling of non-confrontational play going on with them.

Mockra - Called for a finder reveal if kessobahn was actually a necromancer. I think there were possibly four people, myself included who were skeptical about the reveal and asked for a finder to investigate kessobahn. It is possible one of us is a killer, but i do not think asking a finder to investigate a day 2 reveal on a crucial role is all that strange. personally i am more worried by the possibility that they are a symp and am unsure why this wasn't mentioned with the vote as i think it would have added more weight behind that case.

tennes - Is tennes actually playing this game? They post about something called repo, they do not seem to read the thread, and they haven't posted one post which was an attempt at a contribution.

vote tennes

We have 25 hours left and i will change my vote if people are more inclined for either of the other two, but for me, enough is enough. i haven't had much time to play this week because of work, but i feel when i have been on i have tried to contribute as best i can and to make cases or discuss what is actually happening. that it is day 3 and a player hasn't done anything of note beyond making excuses, is just unacceptable.

[Liosan]

That sounds more like a rant than a case, work is just putting me in a rant sort of mood i am afraid. I believe tennes is intentionally low posting to hide the fact he is scum of one kind or another.

[Meanas]

Well night sucked for us. No more CF is probably the most irritating thing. I have played with Morgoth for a long time and I can't understand why he would have outed himself like that on day two. All he really needed to do was to wait and build a case. Looking back at the lynch and the NK the trade off of a necro recruit for our CF and medium wasn't worth it at all. Although I am sure that he is hitting himself in the head and reading all kinds of shit on the spoilers.

I have some work shit to take care of so I will be back to post the rest in a little while.

[Meanas]

Ok it looks like I have a couple of more minutes before the meeting. I like the case on Kaschan and also found Gaylords defense of Fener suspicious. Since we are going into the weekend break I also want to see more input from Tennes so for now I am going to apply some more pressure on him. I also want to say that we should not take any low posters into the later stages of the game. The reasons are many and obvious. If you don't have the time to play then don't sign up.

Vote Tennes

[Omtose]

I really don't understand what is up with the sudden voting for Tennes. We have the scum dancing to our tune and killing for damage control instead of furthering for their goals. The cult probably failed its recruitment, why else would we have had 2 NKs last night. The trail seems hot for where to go based on what Morgoth revealed, and even if the Norwegian is proved to be wrong about Kaschan or Kaschan gets away without a lynch or answers the cases against him, we've got content to go on with.

I'd say both Sil and I have got a decent case.

And yet, everyone since us is voting for a fucking low poster. What are you hoping to do, pressure him into gaming more?

If he truly lacks time, he can't invest more and should allow himself to be modkilled rather than cling on - we'd waste a lynch and a day of gaming for something P-S would do eventually.
If it is strategy, he will only post 1-3 times, parrot the prevalent view 'as content' and dive under again with a lot of mea maxima culpa and I'll promise I'll do better while giving us the finger in SH. We've all done that once upon a time (sole exception is probably teholbeddict, who's new after all )

If it then comes to a lynch, and he is an inno, well, we've given the scum an entire day + weekend to dig in and muddy the waters and giving the same scum a decent time to get their act together. If he is scum, then at the least he's a silent one, can't manipulate us that way - much better to find the active ones first who will defend themselves and their fellow scum.

The whole view of the game is not going to get any clearer with the lack of a CF - if we give scum the time to distance and throw up smoke screens again, we may well give away the lead I feel we have right now.