[waydoug]

I loved that scene in the book! It made me want to do a drawing about it but I couldn't find it again in the book. Anyone able to tell me the pages it was on? That is one of the best things about SE series, the images placed in the ol' imagination out of each book.

[HoosierDaddy]

Hell, this answer is chock full of spoilers:

Spoiler

Yah know what. I'm thinking it's Kettle. She did in fact, end Scabandari's existence, was a child, and was pretty damned terrifying.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 28 February 2009 - 02:29 AM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I'd say, the only thing that could have crucified it would be an equal force. Something non-magical, or EVEN BETTER-Elder.

[Grief]

RE, the ottataral dragon.

There is a bit somewhere(BH or TTH?) that says:

Spoiler

All the Eleint accepted K'ruls bargain, bar one.
I reckon it was chained by the other eleint/soletaken eleint.

[D'rek]

Grief, on Feb 28 2009, 10:06 AM, said:

RE, the ottataral dragon.

There is a bit somewhere(BH or TTH?) that says:

Spoiler

All the Eleint accepted K'ruls bargain, bar one.
I reckon it was chained by the other eleint/soletaken eleint.

Alternatively, we know that

Spoiler

Silanah doesn't live in SD

I still like the theory that the Otat dragon was chained by Soletaken Eleint to seal a wound casued by the Fall is the best one...

This post has been edited by D'rek: 01 March 2009 - 07:21 PM

[Tapper]

Hoods_Balls, on Jan 8 2009, 02:26 AM, said:

Aptorian, on Jan 7 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

Hoods_Balls, on Jan 7 2009, 06:24 PM, said:

Aptorian, on Jan 7 2009, 10:56 AM, said:

Old topic there.

As far as we know after the prologue of RG

Spoiler

the "child of indescribable terror" was an Edur myth. A kind of boogyman they made up to explain how their god could have been killed.

Since there was no mention what so ever of this child in RG most likely it never existed or Erikson forgot all about it.

Spoiler

Could that be Kilmandaros? I kind of always took Killy to be sort of a big elder god simpleton, going around bopping people on the head. She seemed to be of lower intelligence/childlike, and she is the one who killed ole' one eye.

Spoiler

Killymandaros had been around for a long time before then. She has a past with Mael and Gothos. She is also told that her "children" has lost their way. meaning she's existed long enough to probably found an entire race.

Spoiler

A long time before when?
Scabby was the tiste edure god, and he was killed hundreds of thousands of years ago...hence the reason the name of the one who killed him has been lost in myth.
So of course as an elder Kil was around back then. Making it quite possible she is the indescribable terror. Also she probly did found a race, but the parts that you read about her still make her sound slightly childish mentally.
could her children be the imass? they certainly lost there way.

Just tossing some ideas out there.

To derail the thread but continue the speculation:

Spoiler

I think the children of Kilmandaros are the Forkrul Assail .

Kili is a sort of peacekeeper - see also how she strode into Kurald Emurlahn to keep it at peace, away from the meddling of dragons and ascendants.
The FA are obsessed with peace and calm, apparently seeking it through extermination - that is the one thing that both Calm in HoC and the FA in Lether share. It also suits Knuckles (who was FA, no?) as keeper of an azath house - guardian of the peace, and he most certainly knew how to keep Kili comfortable - like a younger brother or son would.

The FA's desire for 'peace' and their way of bringing it is not very different from children copying their mother (but getting it all wrong), she is after all employing violence in her own way, for her own purposes, and it seems her strength is her sole weapon - no magic, no trickery, no warren, just brutal force. Much like the FA are killing machines and seemingly nothing else (so far) - we don't even know if they have a warren.

More, in the time when Kil and Mael chased Scabs, the elder founding races were still ruling the world and at war with one another, so I do not find it that much of a stretch. Moreso, Kilmandaros does not use weapons - FA are fighting empty-handed as well... Jaghut used metal, imass stone, the KCM machinery.

Sure, Kilmandaros and the FA sound like they're physically different - she's heavy built and they seem sinewy, agile, dancer-like, but it could well be that she's the proto-type - just like Osserc is portrayed with tusks, but apparently was (one of) the founding father(s) of the Liosan, who do not seem to possess those.

Or was this falsified somewhere before already? If so, I'm sorry.

Anyway, back on topic: the otataral dragon seems to be a too important plot element from its representation to be forgotten. I think it will feature in the next books, when dragons become more central to the story. If anything, the way Kalse etc. were chained very much seems like they were done in the same way as the OD, just without spikes...

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 23 March 2009 - 06:41 AM

[drinksinbars]

spoilers for later books

Spoiler

i was under the assumptiont hat the child of indescribable terror was trulls kid with the eres and this makes sense with RG in my mind because of what happens there.

as for the otatoral dragon, it is implied int he scene that it is a recent occurence, with what happened in TTH it seems that all the elient are being hunted.

[D'rek]

drinksinbars, on Mar 12 2009, 07:54 AM, said:

spoilers for later books

Spoiler

i was under the assumptiont hat the child of indescribable terror was trulls kid with the eres and this makes sense with RG in my mind because of what happens there.

as for the otatoral dragon, it is implied int he scene that it is a recent occurence, with what happened in TTH it seems that all the elient are being hunted.

I disagree. I don't think it is implied that it is a recent occurence at all, even if Pearl could tell such a thing which I don't think he can. If it was recent, the avatar of Osseric would have at least sealed the gate when the dragons passed through KT. If it was recent, there would be knowledge of such a creature existing in the many centuries-old and educated characters. Such a creature would be known to have existed. But instead no one has ever heard of it, nor is it ever mentioned in any listing/discussions of magic-deadening things.

[Jegna Til]

D'rek, on Mar 20 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

drinksinbars, on Mar 12 2009, 07:54 AM, said:

spoilers for later books

Spoiler

i was under the assumptiont that the child of indescribable terror was trulls kid with the eres and this makes sense with RG in my mind because of what happens there.

as for the otatoral dragon, it is implied in the scene that it is a recent occurence, with what happened in TTH it seems that all the elient are being hunted.

I disagree. I don't think it is implied that it is a recent occurence at all, even if Pearl could tell such a thing which I don't think he can. If it was recent, the avatar of Osseric would have at least sealed the gate when the dragons passed through KT. If it was recent, there would be knowledge of such a creature existing in the many centuries-old and educated characters. Such a creature would be known to have existed. But instead no one has ever heard of it, nor is it ever mentioned in any listing/discussions of magic-deadening things.

On page 566 of HoC, we have two points to consider. The first being is that Dragons are possibly not indigenous to the world, when Lostara looks at the sky and recognises none of the contellations. Can we say for sure that they've moved to below the equator because if not then they could be from another world, this makes it more a new Warren, more improved. Then on p 568, Pearl looks at the tracks and answers what could do this to a dragon by replying, 'other Dragons of course . I agree it must be a recent tussle/fight due to reference as to how fresh the tracks are and that Pearl and Lostara are possibly minutes or hours behind the dragons that did this.

[Hetan]

You are forgetting that time works differently in a warren..

[waydoug]

Thanks Jagna til, those were the pages I was looking for.

[drinksinbars]

well we know that it is old because its mentioned

Spoiler

as the consort or liege of tiam nailed to the tree but still alive when feather witch does her reading. therefore the otatoral dragon has a place within the holds

[D'rek]

drinksinbars, on Mar 24 2009, 07:01 AM, said:

well we know that it is old because its mentioned

Spoiler

as the consort or liege of tiam nailed to the tree but still alive when feather witch does her reading. therefore the otatoral dragon has a place within the holds

Unless that's something else. There's plenty of

Spoiler

dragons tied up or otherwise bound but alive in the series, such as Eloth, Ampelas, Telorast & Curdle, the Serc dragon who's name escapes me, etc etc...

[Xachariah]

This thread looks like a CIA report on UFO's

[Aptorian]

It's sort of what happens when several people go offtopic and no moderators notice what thread it's happening in.

I should probably have cut out a lot of it, but meh... that would have taken longer

[Jegna Til]

Hetan, on Mar 23 2009, 05:54 AM, said:

You are forgetting that time works differently in a warren..

True, it seems to be a time acceleration factor, where anyone who travels within a warren moves faster than those outside of a warren or hold. A hold may sped up by 10 and a warren speedes up by 100X, compared to our perception of time, you think? not to mention it seems to jump over continents in some cases.

[D'rek]

Jegna Til, on Apr 20 2009, 12:11 PM, said:

Hetan, on Mar 23 2009, 05:54 AM, said:

You are forgetting that time works differently in a warren..

True, it seems to be a time acceleration factor, where anyone who travels within a warren moves faster than those outside of a warren or hold. A hold may sped up by 10 and a warren speedes up by 100X, compared to our perception of time, you think? not to mention it seems to jump over continents in some cases.

Or it all happens in completely regular time, but the author cuts out the chapters of folks walking through the desert doing nothing, or sailing on a boat between continents, or living in Raraku for a couple years doing nothing, etc etc...

[AstroLAB!GO]

This is a great topic, and frustrating as hell that I can't read it all. Is there anyway to reveal what is behind the black outs? I just read through the "help" section...and I 've got to say, it was no help at all on this matter. I realize this website has an overwhelming propensity toward prudishness and avoiding anything that even hints at a spoiler, and some times the connections are very very tenous, but could we maybe get this thread moved to a location where we could dump the black outs?

Thnks.

[HoosierDaddy]

Highlight the text. That was the old forum's version of spoilers for later on in the series though, so be forewarned.

Edit: If you want to talk about the crucified dragon in a later book forum, you are perfectly allowed to start a new thread on it.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 14 October 2009 - 03:28 AM

[AstroLAB!GO]

HoosierDaddy, on 14 October 2009 - 03:27 AM, said:

Highlight the text. That was the old forum's version of spoilers for later on in the series though, so be forewarned.

Edit: If you want to talk about the crucified dragon in a later book forum, you are perfectly allowed to start a new thread on it.

Great exactly the help I needed.

Thanks.