[Gnaw]

QuickTidal, on 14 September 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

The wife thinks the womans voice in the end of LISTEN sounded like Jenny from the Paternoster Gang.

Ditto

[polishgenius]

So yeah, while watching it it was a lot of fun, a tiny bit of thinking about it just has me getting annoyed at all sorts of things about the episode. The first being the casual visit to Gallifrey. Yeah, whatever. But the major one being that it's more a greatest-hits of previous new-Who spooky episodes rather than having any identity of its own, and it never really coheres as a result.



The Clara-Danny/Rupert/Orson stuff was good, though, as was Peter Capaldi.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 15 September 2014 - 11:10 AM

[Inane Babble]

I'm almost certainly wrong, but it sounded like Billie Piper as The Moment trying to NOT sound like Billie Piper to me.

Got a little lost towards the last episode, what was trying to get into the ship?

Was Pink V2 really just insane and had to write the message to remind himself to not open the door because it sounded so much like knocking?

Would have loved if there really was something other than nothing, even if the evolutionary pinnacle of hiding was left with unknown or even ostensibly benign reasons, it would have been a lot more paranoia inducing once the episode ended. A version of Blink, not scary, but way more unnerving. Something you don't understand, watching and listening to everything you do, and even the doctor can't tell you what is it or why it does it.

A missed opportunity IMO.

[Mezla PigDog]

Coco with marshmallows, on 13 September 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

Mezla PigDog, on 13 September 2014 - 08:05 PM, said:

I watched it at home on my own. I have put lots of lights on and I'm talking to myself as I potter around. Creeped out big time!

Out of interest where are you on the liking / not liking now?

Liking based on that episode and the automaton one in particular. Not liking based on episode 1 with the T-Rex and the Dalek one. The stuff that everyone is debating above is completely lost on me.

I'm still creeped out by the bit with the whatever under the red blanket bit.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 15 September 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

So yeah, while watching it it was a lot of fun, a tiny bit of thinking about it just has me getting annoyed at all sorts of things about the episode. The first being the casual visit to Gallifrey. Yeah, whatever. But the major one being that it's more a greatest-hits of previous new-Who spooky episodes rather than having any identity of its own, and it never really coheres as a result.



The Clara-Danny/Rupert/Orson stuff was good, though, as was Peter Capaldi.

Gallifrey - The general consensus on this seems to be a few things. 1. Only the Doctor's PRE-Eleven believe Gallifrey to be destroyed/time-locked still. We don't know what state it is in now that it's in a lost universe, and this essentially opens up the idea that it can now be traveled to, but takes the Doctor's unconscious memories to take them there VIA mental circuits and with no safety's on. 2. Assuming that Moffat doesn't already have this strange feature of Clara's visit there worked out for a future reference...? He will have.

Inane Babble, on 15 September 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

I'm almost certainly wrong, but it sounded like Billie Piper as The Moment trying to NOT sound like Billie Piper to me.

Got a little lost towards the last episode, what was trying to get into the ship?

Was Pink V2 really just insane and had to write the message to remind himself to not open the door because it sounded so much like knocking?

Would have loved if there really was something other than nothing, even if the evolutionary pinnacle of hiding was left with unknown or even ostensibly benign reasons, it would have been a lot more paranoia inducing once the episode ended. A version of Blink, not scary, but way more unnerving. Something you don't understand, watching and listening to everything you do, and even the doctor can't tell you what is it or why it does it.

A missed opportunity IMO.

There was nothing trying to get into Orson's ship. It was what the Doctor speculated as the hull ticking and cooling or settling, and Orson had basically been there on his own long enough for the fear to turn it into something else. In my old basement apartment there was a pipe knocking that happened frequently that sounded EXACTLY like someone knocking at my front door 5 times. It was so distinct that I actually answered the door a few times.

I think I thought it was rather genius to have the Doctor dealing with "fear" as monster. The episode had some GREAT scares and creeps. I would have felt let down if it had just been another alien baddie. Having it be about something more human and cerebral and internal makes the episode sing for me. For a small portion of the ep I honestly thought that Moffat was recycling the Vashta Nerada, and I was quite glad when he didn't.

I'll wager this may be the ep that goes up for the Hugo next awards.

[bubba]

The only problem I have is that there was something there.

 0000999.JPG (35.74K)
Number of downloads: 2

[Gnaw]

Bubba, on 15 September 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

The only problem I have is that there was something there.

Ditto redux

[Khellendros]

The barn doesn't have to be on Gallifrey necessarily - or so I've heard.


Ultimately it's left for you to make your own mind up, but the thing under the blanket could have been a kid pulling a prank as they suggested...a very-confused kid by the end who wisely decided to leave the room as an old man and young woman appeared to be molesting the kid who he had been trying to pull a prank on.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 15 September 2014 - 02:32 PM

[QuickTidal]

Bubba, on 15 September 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

The only problem I have is that there was something there.

0000999.JPG

Yep, but he is a small person actor who is listed in the credits only as "figure". This is likely because they wouldn't have bothered casting a child actor to do a role that required such movements and sounds, no point when you don't show him properly. But the story point that it was probably one of the kids playing a trick still stands. There is even a bit of a flash of light to imply the kid had a flashlight on them. But yeah, you can look up the actor who played "figure". It's not a monster, and he was apparently not made up in make-up either.

It's supposed to be a kid playing a trick on Danny who then gets wise and bolts from the room. It's just that kid is played by a small person.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 September 2014 - 02:41 PM

[QuickTidal]

Khellendros, on 15 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

The barn doesn't have to be on Gallifrey necessarily - or so I've heard.

The Barn is on Gallifrey. In the DAY OF THE DOCTOR the barn is where the War Doctor was going to use/detonate The Moment. He also assumed that he would be sealing his own fate with the rest of his planet...and The Moment (Billie Piper) tells him that if he DOES do it, then his punishment for doing it would be that he would survive it and suffer being the Last Of The Time Lords. There would be no point for the War Doctor to have been on any other planet to use the moment other than Gallifrey, as he intended to die with everyone else initially.

[Gnaw]

Khellendros, on 15 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

The barn doesn't have to be on Gallifrey necessarily - or so I've heard.

I thought the same thing. But it's the same barn.

 barndoor.png (498.74K)
Number of downloads: 0

[Blend]

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 15 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

The barn doesn't have to be on Gallifrey necessarily - or so I've heard.

The Barn is on Gallifrey. In the DAY OF THE DOCTOR the barn is where the War Doctor was going to use/detonate The Moment. He also assumed that he would be sealing his own fate with the rest of his planet...and The Moment (Billie Piper) tells him that if he DOES do it, then his punishment for doing it would be that he would survive it and suffer being the Last Of The Time Lords. There would be no point for the War Doctor to have been on any other planet to use the moment other than Gallifrey, as he intended to die with everyone else initially.

Nothing in your explanation means that the barn necessarily has to be on Gallifrey. The Time War spanned time and space, it wasn't JUST Gallifrey that was involved. I mean, he could just as easily be on a moon of Gallifrey or something - there's nothing to prove that the barn is ON Gallifrey (even if it seems like common sense). In fact, considering what's happening on Gallifrey at the time, I'd posit that it's much too quiet in that barn for it to be on Gallifrey. The Moment could just as easily work from another location and be pointed at wherever he wants to use it. I mean, not all the Daleks were ON Gallifrey, but it ostensibly would have pulled all of them into The Moment too.

[bubba]

Blend, on 15 September 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 15 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

The barn doesn't have to be on Gallifrey necessarily - or so I've heard.

The Barn is on Gallifrey. In the DAY OF THE DOCTOR the barn is where the War Doctor was going to use/detonate The Moment. He also assumed that he would be sealing his own fate with the rest of his planet...and The Moment (Billie Piper) tells him that if he DOES do it, then his punishment for doing it would be that he would survive it and suffer being the Last Of The Time Lords. There would be no point for the War Doctor to have been on any other planet to use the moment other than Gallifrey, as he intended to die with everyone else initially.

Nothing in your explanation means that the barn necessarily has to be on Gallifrey. The Time War spanned time and space, it wasn't JUST Gallifrey that was involved. I mean, he could just as easily be on a moon of Gallifrey or something - there's nothing to prove that the barn is ON Gallifrey (even if it seems like common sense). In fact, considering what's happening on Gallifrey at the time, I'd posit that it's much too quiet in that barn for it to be on Gallifrey. The Moment could just as easily work from another location and be pointed at wherever he wants to use it. I mean, not all the Daleks were ON Gallifrey, but it ostensibly would have pulled all of them into The Moment too.

They also called it the "galaxy eater" so I'm under the impresion he could have been quite a ways from the battle.

[QuickTidal]

Blend, on 15 September 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 15 September 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

The barn doesn't have to be on Gallifrey necessarily - or so I've heard.

The Barn is on Gallifrey. In the DAY OF THE DOCTOR the barn is where the War Doctor was going to use/detonate The Moment. He also assumed that he would be sealing his own fate with the rest of his planet...and The Moment (Billie Piper) tells him that if he DOES do it, then his punishment for doing it would be that he would survive it and suffer being the Last Of The Time Lords. There would be no point for the War Doctor to have been on any other planet to use the moment other than Gallifrey, as he intended to die with everyone else initially.

Nothing in your explanation means that the barn necessarily has to be on Gallifrey. The Time War spanned time and space, it wasn't JUST Gallifrey that was involved. I mean, he could just as easily be on a moon of Gallifrey or something - there's nothing to prove that the barn is ON Gallifrey (even if it seems like common sense). In fact, considering what's happening on Gallifrey at the time, I'd posit that it's much too quiet in that barn for it to be on Gallifrey. The Moment could just as easily work from another location and be pointed at wherever he wants to use it. I mean, not all the Daleks were ON Gallifrey, but it ostensibly would have pulled all of them into The Moment too.

You think the entirety of the planet of Gallifrey is full of cities and there are no quiet places like where the barn is situated? Why would the young Doctor in the barn (which is indeed the barn from DotD, as Moffat says Clara recognizes it as such in the script for LISTEN directly in the leaked scripts) be on another planet? Gallifrey has always been his home as far as we have ever been told. He grew up there, and went to the Academy there. Why would he be on any other planet as a child? That makes no sense. Since both barns are the one and the same...we can more than guess that the barn is on Gallifrey.

The hoops you seem to be jumping through to say it's NOT Gallifrey are more and further apart than the ones that make it clearly Gallifrey.

Is it not easier to say that the barn is on Gallifrey since we've seen both childhood Doctor and War Doctor there? Makes sense to me.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 September 2014 - 04:07 PM

[Gnaw]

I'm with QT on the location of the barn. Remember The Moment showed them what "is happening all around you" and Clara said "and these are the people you're going to burn".

What I'm not with him though is the assumption that the boy in the bed is the Doctor. Clara thinks so. But that doesn't make it so.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

There was nothing trying to get into Orson's ship.

Why did the Cloister Bell sound, then? Also, within the Who-verse at least, the idea of there being creepy hidden monsters is far more plausible than a kid acting the way the figure did when two unknown adults pop up in their mate's bedroom.

[QuickTidal]

Gnaw, on 15 September 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

I'm with QT on the location of the barn. Remember The Moment showed them what "is happening all around you" and Clara said "and these are the people you're going to burn".

What I'm not with him though is the assumption that the boy in the bed is the Doctor. Clara thinks so. But that doesn't make it so.

Actually, I think the boy is indeed the Doctor as listed in Moffat's script as well. I recall reading that it's specifically noted in there.

polishgenius, on 15 September 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

There was nothing trying to get into Orson's ship.

Why did the Cloister Bell sound, then? Also, within the Who-verse at least, the idea of there being creepy hidden monsters is far more plausible than a kid acting the way the figure did when two unknown adults pop up in their mate's bedroom.

The Cloister bell doesn't sound until after they've left the last planet in the TARDIS and the Doctor is unconscious. It's got nothing to do with the knocking sound.

I'm fairly certain that the point of the episode is that the "fear" was in everyone's head. They hammer that point home multiple times, and Clara even has dialogue stating it. It's also why the Doctor underlines the chalked word "Listen" on his board. HE wrote it, and he knows he wrote it at that point. Why put in the bit with the young Doctor, with Clara reaching out to grab his foot otherwise? Why not reveal what was under the blanket? Why not show us something outside Orson's ship? Because it was all about fear and what it does to us when we are alone.

You know I used to run up my basement stairs when I'd been down there. Because the lightswitch was at the bottom, not the top. So when I came upstairs I had to switch the light off THEN ascend the stairs. I ran up every time. EVERY. TIME. Even into my teens and adulthood. It's not that I didn't realize there was nothing down there in the dark, but I could not convince my brain to let it rest. The fear of it was the monster in my head. This is why the original HOUSE ON HAUNTED HILL is so frightening...curtains that move, or things falling off tables can be FAR more scary than anything actually monstrous lurking in the shadows.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

The Cloister bell doesn't sound until after they've left the last planet in the TARDIS and the Doctor is unconscious. It's got nothing to do with the knocking sound.

Nah, it's after they've got the Doctor in the TARDIS, but it's while the doors are rattling, they haven't left the planet yet.

Quote

I'm fairly certain that the point of the episode is that the "fear" was in everyone's head. They hammer that point home multiple times, and Clara even has dialogue stating it. It's also why the Doctor underlines the chalked word "Listen" on his board. HE wrote it, and he knows he wrote it at that point. Why put in the bit with the young Doctor, with Clara reaching out to grab his foot otherwise? Why not reveal what was under the blanket? Why not show us something outside Orson's ship? Because it was all about fear and what it does to us when we are alone.

I'd be absolutely fine with all of this, I just think they put in too much trying to convince us initially that it might be real. And they never come outright and state 'it was all in their heads'. So on the one hand you've got a set of circumstances that seem (to me) to be too solid to just be imagination, and on the other the writers leaning towards (but not committing to) the idea that it is. It all adds to the unfocused feel of the episode to me.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 15 September 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

The Cloister bell doesn't sound until after they've left the last planet in the TARDIS and the Doctor is unconscious. It's got nothing to do with the knocking sound.

Nah, it's after they've got the Doctor in the TARDIS, but it's while the doors are rattling, they haven't left the planet yet.

Quote

I'm fairly certain that the point of the episode is that the "fear" was in everyone's head. They hammer that point home multiple times, and Clara even has dialogue stating it. It's also why the Doctor underlines the chalked word "Listen" on his board. HE wrote it, and he knows he wrote it at that point. Why put in the bit with the young Doctor, with Clara reaching out to grab his foot otherwise? Why not reveal what was under the blanket? Why not show us something outside Orson's ship? Because it was all about fear and what it does to us when we are alone.

I'd be absolutely fine with all of this, I just think they put in too much trying to convince us initially that it might be real. And they never come outright and state 'it was all in their heads'. So on the one hand you've got a set of circumstances that seem (to me) to be too solid to just be imagination, and on the other the writers leaning towards (but not committing to) the idea that it is. It all adds to the unfocused feel of the episode to me.

The Cloister bell is a TARDIS or Doctor in danger noise. It would not sound off from some nebulous noise on a planet it could easily shut out with the door. I'm pretty sure it sounds off because Twelve is unconscious.

Clara's line of dialogue after she speaks to the young Doctor does come outright and state it was in the Doctor's head. It was his own fear, nothing more. The same dominoes from that revelation to be true in the other instances since they stemmed from his initial idea. At least without an explanation for Danny's bed and Orson's ship that is the conclusion we are meant to draw.

Quote

you've got a set of circumstances that seem (to me) to be too solid to just be imagination

I will reiterate that there was a knocking noise in my old apt that honestly sounded like someone loudly knocking at my door. It was easily explainable once investigated, but that made it nonetheless freaky the first time I heard it at 3AM. It was explicitly 5 knocks. Every time. It was too specific to feel like a random house/pipe noise. But it was.

It's not really about "imagination", but rather REAL things that were explainable, which were not what the protag in those scene's believed them to be. Orson KNOWS he's the last human, but his mind still allows him to believe hull noises to be someone knocking at the door. Enough that he has to warn himself about it.

[Blend]

QuickTidal, on 15 September 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

You think the entirety of the planet of Gallifrey is full of cities and there are no quiet places like where the barn is situated? Why would the young Doctor in the barn (which is indeed the barn from DotD, as Moffat says Clara recognizes it as such in the script for LISTEN directly in the leaked scripts) be on another planet? Gallifrey has always been his home as far as we have ever been told. He grew up there, and went to the Academy there. Why would he be on any other planet as a child? That makes no sense. Since both barns are the one and the same...we can more than guess that the barn is on Gallifrey.

The hoops you seem to be jumping through to say it's NOT Gallifrey are more and further apart than the ones that make it clearly Gallifrey.

Is it not easier to say that the barn is on Gallifrey since we've seen both childhood Doctor and War Doctor there? Makes sense to me.

My big issue with the idea that the barn is on Gallifrey is that Gallifrey is supposed to be timelocked, and even if it isn't because of what they do in the Time of the Doctor, they HAVE sent Gallifrey to another, alternate universe, and back in Eccleston or early Tennant Doctorhood it is established that travel to alternate universes is no longer possible.

This post has been edited by Blend: 15 September 2014 - 05:42 PM