[Blend]

QuickTidal, on 23 December 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 December 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'm now officially caught up on Doctor Who - I may have to rewatch much of Season 7 as I was drinking during a good portion of my initial watch-through, and I didn't quite catch that Clara kept dying throughout the Season... But now I'm all caught up, just on time to watch Matt Smith die!

Spoiler

Basically Clara Oswald from 2013 (whom Matt Smith meets in The Spoonhead episode) is the main Clara and when they go to Trenzalore to see his "grave" in THE NAME OF THE DOCTOR and they encounter his time stream after death (light tree thingie). The Great Intelligence tells them he is going to undo all that the DOctor ever did. So Clara goes in after him, sacrificing her life to do so...it basically spreads her through his entire life....so the Clara he meets in THE SNOWMEN and Oswin Oswald the Dalek from ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS...are both facets of her being scattered through his timeline to "help" him and "save" him from the shit the GI was undoing. He then negates her sacrifice by dropping into his own time stream thingie to save her....but not before she sees The War Doctor.

Spoiler

I understood the concept of what she did at the end by jumping into his time stream, but throughout the season they're always like 'Why do you keep dying Clara?' so like it's implied that the Doctor has run into many more of her than Oswin the Dalek and the Snowmen Clara who have died. So are those two the only other two Clara's we actually meet, or do we get hints and glimpses of other Clara's as well? Also, I don't remember seeing an episode where we meet the Lizard Lady, Sontaran guy and ninja girl who kept popping up in the end of the Season, though we DO see them often enough - did I miss something, or did they just sort of pop into the story without much explanation?

[QuickTidal]

Blend, on 23 December 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 December 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 December 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'm now officially caught up on Doctor Who - I may have to rewatch much of Season 7 as I was drinking during a good portion of my initial watch-through, and I didn't quite catch that Clara kept dying throughout the Season... But now I'm all caught up, just on time to watch Matt Smith die!

Spoiler

Basically Clara Oswald from 2013 (whom Matt Smith meets in The Spoonhead episode) is the main Clara and when they go to Trenzalore to see his "grave" in THE NAME OF THE DOCTOR and they encounter his time stream after death (light tree thingie). The Great Intelligence tells them he is going to undo all that the DOctor ever did. So Clara goes in after him, sacrificing her life to do so...it basically spreads her through his entire life....so the Clara he meets in THE SNOWMEN and Oswin Oswald the Dalek from ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS...are both facets of her being scattered through his timeline to "help" him and "save" him from the shit the GI was undoing. He then negates her sacrifice by dropping into his own time stream thingie to save her....but not before she sees The War Doctor.

Spoiler

I understood the concept of what she did at the end by jumping into his time stream, but throughout the season they're always like 'Why do you keep dying Clara?' so like it's implied that the Doctor has run into many more of her than Oswin the Dalek and the Snowmen Clara who have died. So are those two the only other two Clara's we actually meet, or do we get hints and glimpses of other Clara's as well? Also, I don't remember seeing an episode where we meet the Lizard Lady, Sontaran guy and ninja girl who kept popping up in the end of the Season, though we DO see them often enough - did I miss something, or did they just sort of pop into the story without much explanation?

Spoiler

I think we are to assume that Clara kept showing up....but I think the comment on her dying twice was just a means to be clever in implying that how can she have died and shown up again...As to Madame Vastra, Strax, and Jenny...they first showed up out of the blue in the S6 ep A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR during the Battle Of Demon's Run...we are told that Vastra woke up in the 1800's during the construction of the London Underground and started instinctively slaughtering workers, the Doctor saves her and convinces her to stop and live life above, where she presumably meets Jenny, and they somehow meet and employ Sontaran Strax. None of this has ever been on screen. The first we hear of them is A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR, and we are expected to believe that they are the Doctor's "friends" and not question stuff that happened off screen. They eventually show up again a few times, including the Christmas Special and such....but yeah, it was jarring to just hear "The Doctor has these friends....you don't know about 'em...but they are his bestest friends"....which was...IMNSHO another Moffat-fail. But there you have it.

[QuickTidal]

I'm more excited to see Capaldi than watching the actual Ep.

Plus I'll be sad to see Smith go.

[Blend]

QuickTidal, on 23 December 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 December 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 23 December 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Blend, on 23 December 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

I'm now officially caught up on Doctor Who - I may have to rewatch much of Season 7 as I was drinking during a good portion of my initial watch-through, and I didn't quite catch that Clara kept dying throughout the Season... But now I'm all caught up, just on time to watch Matt Smith die!

Spoiler

Basically Clara Oswald from 2013 (whom Matt Smith meets in The Spoonhead episode) is the main Clara and when they go to Trenzalore to see his "grave" in THE NAME OF THE DOCTOR and they encounter his time stream after death (light tree thingie). The Great Intelligence tells them he is going to undo all that the DOctor ever did. So Clara goes in after him, sacrificing her life to do so...it basically spreads her through his entire life....so the Clara he meets in THE SNOWMEN and Oswin Oswald the Dalek from ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS...are both facets of her being scattered through his timeline to "help" him and "save" him from the shit the GI was undoing. He then negates her sacrifice by dropping into his own time stream thingie to save her....but not before she sees The War Doctor.

Spoiler

I understood the concept of what she did at the end by jumping into his time stream, but throughout the season they're always like 'Why do you keep dying Clara?' so like it's implied that the Doctor has run into many more of her than Oswin the Dalek and the Snowmen Clara who have died. So are those two the only other two Clara's we actually meet, or do we get hints and glimpses of other Clara's as well? Also, I don't remember seeing an episode where we meet the Lizard Lady, Sontaran guy and ninja girl who kept popping up in the end of the Season, though we DO see them often enough - did I miss something, or did they just sort of pop into the story without much explanation?

Spoiler

I think we are to assume that Clara kept showing up....but I think the comment on her dying twice was just a means to be clever in implying that how can she have died and shown up again...As to Madame Vastra, Strax, and Jenny...they first showed up out of the blue in the S6 ep A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR during the Battle Of Demon's Run...we are told that Vastra woke up in the 1800's during the construction of the London Underground and started instinctively slaughtering workers, the Doctor saves her and convinces her to stop and live life above, where she presumably meets Jenny, and they somehow meet and employ Sontaran Strax. None of this has ever been on screen. The first we hear of them is A GOOD MAN GOES TO WAR, and we are expected to believe that they are the Doctor's "friends" and not question stuff that happened off screen. They eventually show up again a few times, including the Christmas Special and such....but yeah, it was jarring to just hear "The Doctor has these friends....you don't know about 'em...but they are his bestest friends"....which was...IMNSHO another Moffat-fail. But there you have it.

Spoiler

I actually don't hate the whole "The Doctor has a life outside what we see on the show" vibe that Moffatt was going for - but when you're watching 2 entire season in a beer-fueled Doctor Who marathon craze, it makes for confusion re: Where the fuck did these people come from anyway? Isn't Strax the Sontaran nurse that is being a nurse as punishment for something? Prolly in the Demon's Run episodes when we meet them? Or was that a different Sontaran? Also, the boy that Strax ends up befriending and hanging around with in the end of season 7 - was he there before too?

[McLovin]

I really hope it's a fitting send-off. Smith has earned it.

[Traveller]

That was sweet.

I'm a bit too drunk to follow what was going on with the whole Christmas town thing, but he had some good lines, and it was a good send off for Smith.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 25 December 2013 - 08:52 PM

[QuickTidal]

Spoiler

Okay, I was doing okay during the whole Old Eleven "goodbye" sequence before the weaponized regeneration sequence...but sweet merciful fuck the scene before his face reboots and he says goodbye to Clara, sees young Amy and then says goodbye to older Amy...sobbing. Like full on sobbing like a little kid. Wow, hit me like a tonne of bricks.

Not the best of overall eps storywise, but a good solid sendoff for Matt. And Capaldi's first few moments were cool. "Do you know how to fly this thing?" wondering if that's post-regeneration wiggies or a result of the full set of new 12 lives bestowed upon him from the Time Lords?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 26 December 2013 - 04:10 AM

[amphibian]

Is the mechanism of the transfer going to be a future story or was that already done?

Also, what is the deal with Rose being the guide to War Doctor? Is she Rose or something wearing a disguise?

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 26 December 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

Is the mechanism of the transfer going to be a future story or was that already done?

Also, what is the deal with Rose being the guide to War Doctor? Is she Rose or something wearing a disguise?

Transfer?

The guide for the War Doctor is a Gallifreyan War Device called "The Moment". Because of the person who was to activate it (the Doctor) the visual representation of the interface "chose" someone the Doctor knew well (Rose / Bad Wolf) as the visual. So it's not technically Rose, but the Moment using her face.

[amphibian]

What I mean by transfer is whatever the golden aura stuff that flowed out of the crack is. It obviously gave the rejuvenation machine another go, but did it cost someone significantly? Is the twelve lives now gotten rid of or extended to whatever number?

Honestly, I think these couple Dr Who episodes use a bit much of knowing winks and nearly drive the obvious points and plot elements into the ground before moving on. The introduction of Clara was a much, much better written episode.

[melonhead]

Pretty epic send-off for ole Matt Smith I reckon. Capaldis starting was pretty cool too. "kidneys..Ive got new kidneys.. I dont like the colour"

[Tiste Simeon]

Really enjoyed it, though the thing I didn't get is this:

Spoiler

If he didn't want to say his name to Gallifrey in order to avoid them coming back and starting an intergalactic war, why did he not do so once the war was already going on? I mean, he wanted to stop the Daleks and all the others from attacking Christmas, but they were doing that anyway, so surely it would have made sense to bring the Time Lords back and have them help him? Or did I miss something with that?

Looking forward to the new season but I am gonna miss Matt Smith, he is easily my favourite (much as I love Tennant)!

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 26 December 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

What I mean by transfer is whatever the golden aura stuff that flowed out of the crack is. It obviously gave the rejuvenation machine another go, but did it cost someone significantly? Is the twelve lives now gotten rid of or extended to whatever number?

That's Regeneration energy. This was bestowed upon him by his people, the Time Lords (stuck in a pocket universe since the Time War was locked/stopped), through the crack. He only needed it this time because he's used up all his 12 regenerations that his body was given initially (every time Lord is given 12 lives)...so Doctor's 1-11 plus the War Doctor, plus Ten's partial regeneration save in S4 meant he was done and thought he was going to die. So now starting with Twelve he will have a full new set of 12 and he's on the first of those...so his body now stores that yellow energy again. The energy itself is harvested and dolled out by the Sisterhood of Karn (a satellite of Gallifrey). It doesn't cost anyone anything...but long ago the Time Lords decided to put a finite biological lock on how many times their people can regenerate so that they don't live too long. It's something that was decided in a board room on Gallifrey thousands of years ago. In this case, they've given a Time Lord a new set...because they knew he was still needed in the universe.

amphibian, on 26 December 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

Honestly, I think these couple Dr Who episodes use a bit much of knowing winks and nearly drive the obvious points and plot elements into the ground before moving on. The introduction of Clara was a much, much better written episode.

Yeah, that's Moffat for you. He tends to want to hit MAJOR Doctor revelations so hard that the plots of his eps just become messy. My hope is that Twelve's adventures are more adventury with less of an eye towards twists and clever tropes that outweigh story and character.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 26 December 2013 - 02:02 PM

[QuickTidal]

Brent Weeks, on 26 December 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Really enjoyed it, though the thing I didn't get is this:

Spoiler

If he didn't want to say his name to Gallifrey in order to avoid them coming back and starting an intergalactic war, why did he not do so once the war was already going on? I mean, he wanted to stop the Daleks and all the others from attacking Christmas, but they were doing that anyway, so surely it would have made sense to bring the Time Lords back and have them help him? Or did I miss something with that?

Looking forward to the new season but I am gonna miss Matt Smith, he is easily my favourite (much as I love Tennant)!

Spoiler

I think they had to get over the hump of the set event of Trenzalore and the Death of the Doctor before the Time Lords can come back (they still haven't yet) and so the skirmish that happened near the end of the ep that he stops with his regeneration energy is nothing compared to a galaxy spanning war...so he knows the Time Lords have to come back in a more quiet way...thus Clara got them to send the regen energy through the crack instead of them properly coming back. At least that's how I read it.

[Tiste Simeon]

QuickTidal, on 26 December 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Brent Weeks, on 26 December 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Really enjoyed it, though the thing I didn't get is this:

Spoiler

If he didn't want to say his name to Gallifrey in order to avoid them coming back and starting an intergalactic war, why did he not do so once the war was already going on? I mean, he wanted to stop the Daleks and all the others from attacking Christmas, but they were doing that anyway, so surely it would have made sense to bring the Time Lords back and have them help him? Or did I miss something with that?

Looking forward to the new season but I am gonna miss Matt Smith, he is easily my favourite (much as I love Tennant)!

Spoiler

I think they had to get over the hump of the set event of Trenzalore and the Death of the Doctor before the Time Lords can come back (they still haven't yet) and so the skirmish that happened near the end of the ep that he stops with his regeneration energy is nothing compared to a galaxy spanning war...so he knows the Time Lords have to come back in a more quiet way...thus Clara got them to send the regen energy through the crack instead of them properly coming back. At least that's how I read it.

That does make sense, I guess the fighting was fairly "localised" now I think about it.

[Jakovasaurus]

I dunno. I thought the most striking thing about the episode was granny at Christmas dinner. She wanted to play naked twister. The old gal still has got some lead in her pencil.

[amphibian]

Does anyone here think Dr Who is going to make it to the end of the new twelve?

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 26 December 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Does anyone here think Dr Who is going to make it to the end of the new twelve?

I think he will.

[amphibian]

I meant the show as a whole - as in will it make it through twelve more incarnations of the Dr? That's what... 25 years?

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 26 December 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

I meant the show as a whole - as in will it make it through twelve more incarnations of the Dr? That's what... 25 years?

If each Doctor turns in 4 years then closer to 50, but yeah I'll wager it will make it in one form or another.