[BlindSwordsman]

I posted this in the hate thread below thought it could use it own topic. I liked the dying god arc because I thought Icarium was the dying god.

Failed machine falling from the sky. Trying to use a puppet to recover but failing - this just made sense to me.

[Aptorian]

Is Iccy the DG? No.

Could the DG have been hitching a ride on Iccy's machine? Yes.

Is there any way to know for sure one way or another? Hell no...

[MTS]

IIRC, the Dying God was identified by Kallor as Bellurdan Skullcrusher, the Thelomen Toblakai that died with Tattersail in GotM. The Dying God met Hairlock on the floor of the Abyss, and tried to become a puppet to save himself, the way Hairlock did.

[BlindSwordsman]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Dec 20 2008, 11:30 PM, said:

IIRC, the Dying God was identified by Kallor as Bellurdan Skullcrusher, the Thelomen Toblakai that died with Tattersail in GotM. The Dying God met Hairlock on the floor of the Abyss, and tried to become a puppet to save himself, the way Hairlock did.

Ah ok, that makes sense. The fallen machine a mystery then.

[MTS]

Indeed it is a mystery. Was Icarium's machine in Letheras of K'Chain Che'Malle origin or style? I didn't really get that impression as i read RG, but who knows. I don't know if he had any dealings with them (as a Jhag he may have early on), but they were/are pretty tech savvy (at least the short-tails were), and Icarium is quite skilled at building machines, so there may be a connection. As Mappo quite rightly states in Bonehunters, we don't know where those skilles came from. Was there any mention of a K'Chain body found by Nimander and his gang? My copy of TtH is in absentia atm = (

[Urizen]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Dec 21 2008, 09:03 AM, said:

Indeed it is a mystery. Was Icarium's machine in Letheras of K'Chain Che'Malle origin or style? I didn't really get that impression as i read RG, but who knows. I don't know if he had any dealings with them (as a Jhag he may have early on), but they were/are pretty tech savvy (at least the short-tails were), and Icarium is quite skilled at building machines, so there may be a connection. As Mappo quite rightly states in Bonehunters, we don't know where those skilles came from. Was there any mention of a K'Chain body found by Nimander and his gang? My copy of TtH is in absentia atm = (

We don't see any trace of the "pilot" for the Machine, so that could be anyone. Although, I do feel it's Icarium.

Kallor's remark that the machine is of K'Chain Che'Malle origin might also be wrong. He might have been assuming it's K'Chain Che'Malle because they are the only race that are known to create high-tech gadgets/machines, thus when he sees a machine he'll believe it's of K'Chain Che'Malle origin.

[MTS]

Good point. Kallor may very well be wrong. However, the breadth of his knowledge shown in MoI suggests that Kallor is very familiar with the K'Chain Che'Malle. Would he not remark upon seeing something unconventional when it came to K'Chain constructions? Icarium's machine certainly did not sound like what we have seen so far of their constructs (what Icarium and Mappo find around Sorrit in BH, for example). SE gifts us with geological descriptions in all this, so I personally am skeptical that the machine is Icarium's. We have been witness to sky keeps falling out of the sky all through the series, so it could be connected to the one found in BH. I am more inclined to believe it's connected with that one and the exodus of K'Chain Che'Malle in the Imperial Warren than with Icarium. There is just not enough evidence. Too little is known of Icarium's machine, and what happened in the intervening years post-RG. How long has it been sitting there, for a start?

[beru]

Iccy learnd how to make machines fom KCCM ruins... so they probably look similar

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Aptorian, on Dec 21 2008, 03:02 PM, said:

Is Iccy the DG? No.

Could the DG have been hitching a ride on Iccy's machine? Yes.

Is there any way to know for sure one way or another? Hell no...

That was Iccy's doodad? I thought it was a KCCM ship.

[D'rek]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Dec 26 2008, 02:52 AM, said:

That was Iccy's doodad? I thought it was a KCCM ship.

Yeah, I think so too. Iccy's doodad was, like, a dozen buildings spread through a city... Unless the buildings all stood up, came together and made Tron a superfantasmic rocket-ship launching pad...

[MTS]

beru, on Dec 26 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

Iccy learnd how to make machines fom KCCM ruins... so they probably look similar

When was this said? I don't remember this...

[D'rek]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Dec 28 2008, 08:05 AM, said:

beru, on Dec 26 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

Iccy learnd how to make machines fom KCCM ruins... so they probably look similar

When was this said? I don't remember this...

Hinted by Mappo when he and Iccy explore the Skykeep in tBH. Mappo thinks 'Iccy, builder of complex machines; but where did those skills come from, I wonder?' or something like that...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

D'rek, on Dec 29 2008, 02:42 PM, said:

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Dec 28 2008, 08:05 AM, said:

beru, on Dec 26 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

Iccy learnd how to make machines fom KCCM ruins... so they probably look similar

When was this said? I don't remember this...

Hinted by Mappo when he and Iccy explore the Skykeep in tBH. Mappo thinks 'Iccy, builder of complex machines; but where did those skills come from, I wonder?' or something like that...

I remember that...

[Sinisdar Toste]

just a possibility im thinkin

[Traveller]

D'rek, on Dec 27 2008, 05:39 PM, said:

Ain't_It_Just_, on Dec 26 2008, 02:52 AM, said:

That was Iccy's doodad? I thought it was a KCCM ship.

Yeah, I think so too. Iccy's doodad was, like, a dozen buildings spread through a city... Unless the buildings all stood up, came together and made Tron a superfantasmic rocket-ship launching pad...

I don't think the pilot was Icarium. The timeline (!!!) seems totally out for that - Icarium enters his machine in Lether long after MT's, at around the same time as Rhulads death, at the end of RG.

The Dying God must have been around for long enough for all that Kelyk to be grown and distributed, following the Pannion wars in MoI. Bit tricky to compare, but I don't think Icarium could have entered the 'light' in his machine in Lether, and then appear out of a flying pod thing, having trawled the Abyss, with enought time for the DG to establish himself.

Also, it would make things even more difficult for Mappo...

This post has been edited by Traveller: 30 December 2008 - 09:02 AM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Yeah, especially when we found out that the kelyk plants were from Chaos...not like the Black Coral countryside to have random rents from Chaos cracking open...

[MTS]

The timeline isn't important. Time does not run parallel across the realms, according to RotCG. Icarium could've entered his machine at 6 o'clock, spent an eternity in wherever, gone and had a yarn with Hairlock on the floor of the Abyss and popped out above Bastion at 7 just in time for tea.

[MTS]

D'rek, on Dec 29 2008, 02:42 PM, said:

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Dec 28 2008, 08:05 AM, said:

beru, on Dec 26 2008, 05:54 PM, said:

Iccy learnd how to make machines fom KCCM ruins... so they probably look similar

When was this said? I don't remember this...

Hinted by Mappo when he and Iccy explore the Skykeep in tBH. Mappo thinks 'Iccy, builder of complex machines; but where did those skills come from, I wonder?' or something like that...

Ah, yes i remember that. I took that as being a possibility, not a certainty, as as far as i could tell, Mappo was not with Icarium when he gained his mechanical skills. Even if he did, I'm still skeptical about it being his machine lol.

[Hoods_Balls]

Mappo is about 6-8 hundred years old, iccariums contraptions date back 100 thousand years plus.
None of the devices that we have seen yet are anything like the flying machine...all of them were constructs for measuring time...which is iccariums obsession.

[Cowl's Disciple]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Dec 30 2008, 11:55 PM, said:

The timeline isn't important. Time does not run parallel across the realms, according to RotCG. Icarium could've entered his machine at 6 o'clock, spent an eternity in wherever, gone and had a yarn with Hairlock on the floor of the Abyss and popped out above Bastion at 7 just in time for tea.

This is true, however, the Dying God established himself in the Malazan world (I'm not sure how I'm supposed to refer to the realm in which the narrative mostly takes place) which would have taken place sometime following the collapse of the Pannion Domin. Iccy left Lether a considerable amount of time following that event (I think it's safe to propose so) and the chance that the Dying God could establish itself over such a wide area and get the kelyk plants growing and influencing the population in such a short period of time seems unlikely to me.

Unless of course there was a timeline mix up by SE!