[Vallel]

There's always some bits you dont like in a book, but I think this substantial arc was complete dead weight.

It was very random.
An abandoned Bellurdan spirit shows up out of the blue annoyed at being left out of the Nightchill/Tattersail/Silverfox threesome. He starts a bizarre religion in an unnecessary parrallel to the CG in roughly the same place. Is then used as a vehicle for an insigificant group of andii and another random revelation at the end. And most of all weakly brings back a great character in the form of Itkovian to face off against him in a trite diatribe on the human condition.

[wolfgang]

I enjoyed it, mainly because I liked Nimander's group, which is sort of what the arc hinges on because I agree that the appearance of the Dying God was contrived. It was removed from the main plot line, and it felt to me like the main reason Erikson added it was to generate some form of conflict that centred on Black Coral.
The Redeemer thread was also pretty interesting for me. I always felt that the theme that underpins the series as a whole was the obligations of worship, on both sides, and this was probably Erikson's most intricate look at that yet.

Though, Spinnock's relationship with Salind made me groan.

[Vallel]

 wolfgang, on Dec 17 2008, 03:47 AM, said:

I enjoyed it, mainly because I liked Nimander's group, which is sort of what the arc hinges on because I agree that the appearance of the Dying God was contrived. It was removed from the main plot line, and it felt to me like the main reason Erikson added it was to generate some form of conflict that centred on Black Coral.
The Redeemer thread was also pretty interesting for me. I always felt that the theme that underpins the series as a whole was the obligations of worship, on both sides, and this was probably Erikson's most intricate look at that yet.

Though, Spinnock's relationship with Salind made me groan.

I didn't really connect with Nimander's group so that was a big problem from my pov.

Erikson moonlights as a part time philosopher in the Malazan books and I felt the moralities and questions he explores in the redeemer arc have all been done to death in previous books.
It's a limitless topic to be sure, but chewing the same bit of fat over and over in every book gets old.

[Saf]

I thought the idea of the dying god was useful to show that the power hierarchy of the planes and warrens was in constant motion, that ascendents and gods rise and fall. While a bit boring it did keep the atmosphere of the world a bit more realistic.
Or so I found...

[Traveller]

I liked it all.

The Dying God was creepy, I enjoyed the atmosphere of the scenes in the village with the scarecrows, and the way 'simple' Aranatha saved the group.

I certainly wouldn't call Rakes' heir, and the manifestation of MD herself in Aranatha 'insignificant Andii'. Their whole story was great, with the continuous hints (re-read if you missed 'em) that something was going on with Aranatha, and Nimander being the last in the group to realise his own capabilities.
The inclusion of Kallor made it even better.

There were parallels with the CG; but I thought it was believable to see a region already devastated by the Pannion war falling to yet another form of slavery that promised salvation.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 17 December 2008 - 09:13 AM

[Use Of Weapons]

I liked it, but mainly because it was a) an excuse to develop Nimander into a believable leader, an opportunity to put Clip into a coma, and c) arranged to bring about the Azath builder's release, and introduce us to Gothos -- who rocks!

[foolio]

so what do you suppose happened with Kallor in the temple?

[teholbeddict]

I wasn't overly fond of the Dying God arc. I like Nimander and his group, although I'm not really a fan of Clip. For me the sections of the book involving DG and his followers seemed to drag a bit after a while. I enjoyed the sections involving Kallor a bit more than the rest of it. I think it was in part as you say a vehicle for a group of the andii (although I don't think the group are insignificant). It seemed to be used as a way of giving us a picture of Nimander as a chracter, and sets him up to take over for Rake. I did enjoy the group running into Gothos and the Azath builder. So it's not a total waste just not my favourite part of TTH.

[Fox]

I like Nimander. But I wasn't a fan of the Dying God/Redeemer story lines.

[Onos]

 Fox, on Dec 17 2008, 12:30 PM, said:

I like Nimander. But I wasn't a fan of the Dying God/Redeemer story lines.

Pretty much the same. The Dying God seemed like an replay of everyone killing themselves in MOI and becoming the Tenescowri resulting in masses of crazy people. In a place were nearly everyone was killed, everyone is killed again in a similar self annihiliation method. It just felt not right.

I did like the Nimander story line, they were interesting to follow, but maybe Erikson could have come up with something different to tie to them and Iktovian. Hard to place it exaclty why, the dying god didnt seem right.

[Salt-Man Z]

I enjoyed it. The whole thing was pretty creepy, and the scarecrows in particular reminded me of the part in Simmons' Ilium/Olympos where they come across the valley full of crucified (?) Calibans.

The whole Bellurdan angle made no sense, though, and it seemed far too similar to the Crippled God without actually being him. Enjoyable nonetheless.

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 17 December 2008 - 07:21 PM

[Aptorian]

What I liked -

The story arc saved Nimander for me. I absolutly hated the guy in RG, such a whinning ass. He wasn't so much better in TTH but the emo was backed up by being a badass swordfighter and actually showing leaderskills.

The DG was hella creepy. All that scarecrow and drinking kelyk business worked well for me. If the stuff had given the worshippers power as it killed them, I think it would have been even cooler.

The whole possession of Clip and battle at bastion was sweet. I wish he had killed a few more of them andii, but it still worked for me.

Kallor was ten kinds of awesome in that storyline, I wish we'd seen him kill just a few dozen DG followers just for fun. I absolutly love the fact that he walked in to the tempel and then just left because he didn't care.

What I missed -

I thought Erikson should have made a tigh in between the CG and the Dying God. I did not like the idea of just another random threat when we're getting so close to the end.

I don't know why Erikson chose Belurdan for the DG soul. Why not have used Hairlock instead, it would have made so much more sense. I think what really made me confused was the fact that the DG was using puppets... like hairlock.

I fucking hated the redeemer aspect of the story. I did not care about the redeemer and I did not care about the DG eating the guy. I wish Silannah had just removed that human stain.

[BlindSwordsman]

I really like the the dying god but I thought it was what was left of Icarium Lifestealer after the machine failed. Is this not correct? I came to this conclusion by the fallen "broken machine" in the dying gods city - where the alter is (where Clip get possessed).

This post has been edited by BlindSwordsman: 20 December 2008 - 11:45 PM

[Aptorian]

The DG just hitched a ride out of chaos on the machine. We don't know who or what was controlling the machine.

[Dolorous Menhir]

 Aptorian, on Dec 21 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

The DG just hitched a ride out of chaos on the machine. We don't know who or what was controlling the machine.

I always thought that Bellurdan was part of the Silverfox collective, as hinted in MoI. So that was a bit strange.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I was a little creeped out by it to be honest. The kelyk...jeez, that neighborhood (Black Coral and environs) has been through shit.

But it was quite an interesting parallel to the CG...and the catalyst for all the crap that happened in BC.

[Traveller]

 Dolorous Menhir, on Dec 21 2008, 01:07 PM, said:

 Aptorian, on Dec 21 2008, 09:53 AM, said:

The DG just hitched a ride out of chaos on the machine. We don't know who or what was controlling the machine.

I always thought that Bellurdan was part of the Silverfox collective, as hinted in MoI. So that was a bit strange.

Bellurdans soul never made it into the Silverfox 'collective' - he was rejected. Tattersail performed the soul shift into Nightchills preserved body; Nightchills soul was still partly held within the preservation spell, so was still in it when Tattersail soul shifted. Both Tattersail and Nightchill were both very strong personality wise, which may have helped.

What was left of Bellurdan was small, childlike and insane after ending up on the floor of the Abyss; looking for any way out. This remenant was what was swept up by the passing 'machine' that ended up in Bastion.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 30 December 2008 - 12:29 PM

[Bauchelain the Evil]

 Aptorian, on Dec 17 2008, 10:12 PM, said:

I thought Erikson should have made a tigh in between the CG and the Dying God. I did not like the idea of just another random threat when we're getting so close to the end.

Actually I think Monkrat mentioned a connection between the DG and the CG and that guy Gradithan thought it was a blasphemous thing.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Quote

Perhaps, Monkrat had ventured, there is a trend.

...read into it?

This post has been edited by Ain't_It_Just_: 31 December 2008 - 08:32 AM

[Dagger]

There were a few good things in the Dying God arc but overall it did little for me. In fact I wanted to speed through pretty much all of the Dying God/Black Coral segments. It was a distraction from the plots I was interested in and I think stalled the story. Not as bad as the Mhybe, christ nothing is as bad as that but still a distraction.