[Benji]

The poor guy's already died twice and been brought back. He's now lost an eye three times and at the end of RG he dies again. Only to come back again some time in the future. Poor sap.

Yeah, not really much point in this post, just had to say it haha

[Aptorian]

Lets make a list of the amount of times he's died and lost an eye, shall we?

I have him at two deaths and one loss of eye as of RG.

He died in MoI and his soul was transported into Anaster. He then died in RG and entered Hoods realm.

He lost his eye at pale. Hasn't gained or lost any eyes after that.

Am I missing something?

[Benji]

The first death I had for him was when he was chucked into Chaos by Hairlock and rescued (sort of?) by Togg. I counted it as him dying because he was pretty much dead anyway until Togg intervened.

I'm also not sure about the three eyes. Near the beginning of RG he comments on being thrice blinded or something similar. Later on in the novel, he mentions something about having his eye restored with High Denul and then losing it again. By my count that's only two though. Unless, of course, he's counting the fact that Anaster also lost an eye during the siege of Capustan.

[Stalker]

I agree with Apt. The whole missing eye thing doesn't occur because of him, he just loses it once. Anaster already lost his eye before Toc was put in the body. Finally in Hood's Realm, Toc appears without an eye, nothing occur to lose it but its not there.

This post has been edited by Stalker: 09 December 2008 - 11:23 PM

[The Drum]

let's not forget the poor lad also lost his father and suffered some severe torture.

the lady never smiled on Toc did she!!

[Stalker]

Well I always pictured it as Toc knew his father was alive but just didn't know where. In GotM Toc is talking to Lorn and she comments that losing Toc the Elder was a great loss and Toc the Younger says, "not dead for sure, just disappeared."

[The Drum]

Stalker, on Dec 9 2008, 11:40 PM, said:

Well I always pictured it as Toc knew his father was alive but just didn't know where. In GotM Toc is talking to Lorn and she comments that losing Toc the Elder was a great loss and Toc the Younger says, "not dead for sure, just disappeared."

The 'for sure' part of that sentence hinted to me that he really didn't know each way

[Stalker]

The Drum, on Dec 9 2008, 06:48 PM, said:

Stalker, on Dec 9 2008, 11:40 PM, said:

Well I always pictured it as Toc knew his father was alive but just didn't know where. In GotM Toc is talking to Lorn and she comments that losing Toc the Elder was a great loss and Toc the Younger says, "not dead for sure, just disappeared."

The 'for sure' part of that sentence hinted to me that he really didn't know each way

Yea that's true, but because of that I expect Toc the Elder to make an appearance at some point. For me it was more of a foreshadowing type of thing

This post has been edited by Stalker: 10 December 2008 - 12:48 AM

[Excellence]

He was hurled into the Chaos Warren, but he didn't die. He was rendered comatose, then expelled from it.

Lets not forget, that was where he meet that wolf deity, who possessed him.

His first death is from the matron; his second the Letherii.

The fact Hood was puzzled about his one eye after death indicated to me Toc still has a role to play.

[Traveller]

One-eyed people supposedly had visions, and a kind of forsight.

Toc loses an eye at Pale, and started getting brief visions soon after; after the rent incident, Togg was seen 'looking out' of the wounded eye.

The one eye seems to just be something Toc is meant to be stuck with, as it was a bit of a weird coincidence that he gets put into Anasters body, which has only one eye, and doesn't even get it back when he dies.

I think the one eye is just supposed to indicate that Toc has been marked, and subsequently might have a further part to play.

[T'renn]

Aptorian Edit - I removed this RCG spoiler (even though it was spoilered) because it's a relatively big one and it isn't relevant to the discussion. Perhaps take it up in another thread, but not here.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 10 December 2008 - 07:40 PM

[Aptorian]

Toc was marked by ... uhm, was it dolmen? Not only did the flying moon rock give him weird visions, it also equipped him with magical rambo arrows. There was deffinently more to it than just the loss of the eye.

[Topper]

Personally I think death by Matron should count several times over.

[Aptorian]

Toc never died in the arms of the Matron. Panions magic kept Toc from the brink of death, healing him so that he could be crushed over and over again. That's why his body became malformed.

[Lisheo]

Aptorian, on Dec 10 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

Toc never died in the arms of the Matron. Panions magic kept Toc from the brink of death, healing him so that he could be crushed over and over again. That's why his body became malformed.

Not to be picky or anything, but isn't that worse than dying anyway?

[Benji]

Stalker, on Dec 9 2008, 11:23 PM, said:

I agree with Apt. The whole missing eye thing doesn't occur because of him, he just loses it once. Anaster already lost his eye before Toc was put in the body. Finally in Hood's Realm, Toc appears without an eye, nothing occur to lose it but its not there.

I know, I didn't know about the other two, I'm just going on what Toc himself said near the start of RG.

[Aptorian]

I was just commenting on the details since two people now seemed to think he died in the arms of the matron.

And yeah, much worse fate. His starvation among the cannabalistic Panions alone most have been pure torture.

[Topper]

I am aware that he didn't die in the arms of Matron but it isn't exactly something that one could survive without magic. Yes, magic was present, but if we are discussing Toc getting his eye poked out by the short end of the stick, the Matron episode should count several times over.

[Aptorian]

Topper, on Dec 10 2008, 09:22 PM, said:

but if we are discussing Toc getting his eye poked out by the short end of the stick, the Matron episode should count several times over.

What does this even mean? Stop speaking metaphorically it confuses me

[Topper]

I was altering the phrase "to get the short end of the stick" which means to suffer the bad effects of a situation. As I would say that bad is understatement for Toc's situation I added get his eye poked out in order to make the circumstances seem worse, while playing on the fact that he has a habit of losing his eye.