[Kessobahn]

 Gamelon, on Dec 3 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

So try not to make yourself a big ol' target. Be vocal, got no problems from me, I just don't like the agro, but don't make yerself a distraction.

But the aggression isn't there, its percieved by you, but its not that aggressive, at least towards any single person. Its there as an undertone of frustration. I've got the highest post count out of sheer boredom. It is really frustrating to have 17 people playing and only 2 people playing, and this at the typically busiest time of the day. So yeah, I was agressive, but not at Omtose, just at the game. But I give you scum might play agressive so I get you. Just want to clarify that the aggression was not directed at Omtose.

[Korlat]

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Alright, I am back but not cooled off. Time for a real rant. I will try to keep it from being offensive but no promises, if PS thinks its bad, he can delete it.

First. read the fucking post. It says

Sorry you had a shit day at work. (Feelings of empathy)

YThe goes on to ask when he will be back on, as he didn't say. Thats it, the only agression there was the last sentence and it was partially serious.

Begin Rant -

Look, I am sick and tired and tired and sick of the same ol' mafia mentality. Lets lay low, lynch the vocal players, then let the killers pick off the non vocal players and then try to figure the game out on 4 days based on lynches and night kill reactions and CF's. Grow a set people. Speak up. And its fucking early day 1, what else is there to do but spam. Look at what my spamming hads done. Its caused a stir among the ants and collected a couple of (expected) votes. So I say, fuck it, I gots nothing to lose by getting votes, I am not scared of getting lynched day 1. Again read my fucking posts, I am not saying lets lynch the low posters(Again not YET anyway) but if you wont post and dont want to play, get the fuck out of the way, let me and others who are trying to play get some meat to chew on, and odds on an inno win increases. Yeah, I've brought this up before, and yeah it got shot down and dismissed, but fucking play the game, you don't have to get all spammy like me(its just how I like to play from time to time, ok more times than not) but why even post "checking in, back in 12 hours" what good is that. Or "hey, nothing going on, back tomorrow, mabe, if I find the time" and leave.

By doing that you are doing 2 things, you are making yourself a prime choice for killers, because you aren't lynchable as an unknown. aAnd you are giving the killers cover. All you are doing to help the innos is if your roled you are staying alive, but the killers will eventually get you, so fuck it, post, be seen and heard, but stop lurking! All of this is irrelevant to the game but damn its hard to see 4 fucking people, hop on and say, nope, can't play today, RL stuff in the way. Maybe tomorrow!" I understand RL things, but people do it for 3 or 4 days on end and contribute dick. There has to be a way to get on and post, or else you wouldn't fucking get on and say you aren't posting today!

So yeah, aggressive Kess is agressive. But at least I am playing the game and not fucking lurking! Now back to the game.

I find it pretty cool how I have recieved 3 votes so early. Case in point, it must therefore be better to hide and lay low, but I am an inno and got nuttin to lose, so lynch away, but at least fucking listen to what I am saying. And Ruse seems to agree, no one posting is BORING! Even if it is agressive and spam its not fucking dull.

I am boring, am I? IGMEOY!

But joking aside, I agree with this post a lot, and lable me a symp if you want, I couldn't give a damn, quiet games are damn dull...

Now then, just need to check up, who has not posted yet?

[Ruse]

D'riss and Thyrllan, I believe.

EDIT: If you're doing a reread, you'll come across an identical post to this one

This post has been edited by Ruse: 03 December 2008 - 06:50 PM

[Gamelon]

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 06:46 PM, said:

 Gamelon, on Dec 3 2008, 01:40 PM, said:

So try not to make yourself a big ol' target. Be vocal, got no problems from me, I just don't like the agro, but don't make yerself a distraction.

But the aggression isn't there, its percieved by you, but its not that aggressive, at least towards any single person. Its there as an undertone of frustration. I've got the highest post count out of sheer boredom. It is really frustrating to have 17 people playing and only 2 people playing, and this at the typically busiest time of the day. So yeah, I was agressive, but not at Omtose, just at the game. But I give you scum might play agressive so I get you. Just want to clarify that the aggression was not directed at Omtose.

I see where you are coming from.

Remove vote

Also wanna say that I'm a-hoping that we do have a vocal killer(s) this game. Ain't no fun trying to build up cases from ten posts. Might be safe, but if we get to Day Three and have the majority of people with their heads still stuck in the sand, I'm gonna start looking to get some of you lynched. Kessobahn is right on the mark. Games bout playing to win, not playing to survive.

[Korlat]

 Ruse, on Dec 3 2008, 08:49 PM, said:

D'riss and Thyrllan, I believe.

EDIT: If you're doing a reread, you'll come across an identical post to this one

Nope no re-read yet, nothing has hit me on the head and screamed scum just yet, just been skimming and missing a lot though

As to the aggression thing, I have to say I don't see it aimed at anyone in particular, I see it as more general than anything else.... Damn it! I am turning into a symp!

[Ruse]

Kessobahn said:

sorry you had a shit day at work. when will you be back? tomorrow? later today? lurk until the lynch happens then pop in and blame the people who lynched for screwing up?

On second viewing it does seem a bit like a general frustration thing, but there's still some needle there. If he wanted it to be directed at everyone, he could have made it a separate statement instead of including it in that stream of questions.

[Kessobahn]

One question. Something I've never really understood and I'll have to go back to look, but someone already said something that I don't get. Not sure who, will edit after I find out.

Why is talking game mechanics early on a bad thing. Sue its speculation, but once you start speculating, some people might join in and you might accidentally figure out whats going on. Plus someone might slip up when discussing it. Back after I see who hinted that it was a bad thing.

[Ruse]

I see Thyrllan .


Off for lunch, will be back later.

[Emurlahn]

Wellwellwell.
Since you are ranting, Kesso, have a bite of this.

I fucking dislike your attitude.

I was online during the morning and saw nothing happen. At all. Not even day 1 jokes, at the least, not any I wished to respond to, apart from the two times I did. I decided not to post aside from the two things I put down, as I have no observations to make, no partner to contact, no role to code. Why should I step on stage and into the spotlight then, aside from stroking my ego? To make you feel I contribute or play the game? Fuck that. It doesn't suit my playstyle to cater to your needs that way, so I don't.

It is everyone's right to play as he wants as long as it is within the limits set by the rules. Modkills are set at 36 hours and that is the limit that is set to post in between.
If you want to play captain spammypants and think everyone of us who can't post at the same pace, with the same amount of content (wait, what content, hmm?) and frequency should fuck off cause they are not playing the game, you're sadly mistaken.
I'm often among the high posters but what you are doing here and now is chasing off players who refuse or can't put in the same amount of time. It's a somewhat elitist attitude that I severely dislike, and which has been popping up more and more during the last few games. More is not always better than less, and when I got into Mafia, part of the appeal was that I didn't have to spend hours and hours on it, unless I wanted to (which i then, promptly, did).

Time and post count say NOTHING about content or quality. Fuck, look at Gavin and how he has been harassed the past few games by people, but compare the content he generally offers to that of others who deliver 5 times his post count and you'll see you're indirectly bashing a player who does a lot but isn't on all that often.

If you fear lowposters, vote for them, build cases. Day 1 is practically made to lynch lowposters since there's fairly little to go on, don't you think lowposters know that? If they are lowposters out of tactical concerns, they have this risk to deal with.

If you fear they are killers and providing an alibi for themselves by laying low or claiming rl issues to disappear: use your ability on them.
If you are a RI, fucking put them to the question, specifically, asking them their opinions, their thoughts, their reasonings. I'd say avoiding those questions is more a telltale sign of scum than the postcount they have. Use their answers to build cases on them. It's that simple, but I have the impression that you'd much rather rant and claim it's unfair that a killer can be a lowposter and how team inno has been screwed by it in a couple of games, than that you actually want to invest time in directing play the way I sketched.

Whatever you do, don't say lowposting is a scummy tactic and is not playing the game.
Mod your own game and set the modkill limit at 5 fucking minutes day and night, see how much fun that is, and how many people will join.

I'm currently working 12 hours a day (from home too), and can generally be a highposter due to the fact i work in an office and have no co-workers sharing the room, allowing me to waste time in between meetings, phone calls and actual work on Mafia. If I have to meet a client outdoors, that's a pity for Mafia, but the client comes first, naturally. That can mean that I'm afk for a full day, and that I prefer a movie, gaming or the pub above Mafia. Such is life. Others are not in the position I am in, or you are in, or don't have access at home, further hindering their participation.

Lastly, maybe there are also other motives for playing the game tbhe way they do? Maybe someone wants to try a different tactic? Not posting in the same style, not posting as frequently, see what you can achieve in a different way? Trying to be altguessed by other players as a specific person that you are not?

Mafia is about having fun, not just about winning. There's rules and regulations, and anything happening within the rules and regulations is legit, even if it seems a scummy tactic.
So stop this holier than thou crusade against something that is permitted by the rules of the game, but just doesn't suit the perception YOU have of what the game should be.

End of story, end of rant.

[Kessobahn]

 Kaschan, on Dec 3 2008, 12:08 PM, said:

Coming back in with some coffee, while breakfast cooks.

... there's really nothing to be seen. Kesso is trying too hard ... but there's always at least one or two of the "let's talk game mechanics!" eager beavers on Day 1. I await reliable evidence ...

Let's just hope someone is really, really drunk, because that's pretty much the only way we ever nail scum on Day 1.

Here. Kas, why is it bad. Discussion of any game aspected mechanic(roles, type, etc.) gets people to talk and improves chances of a slip up. Again, scum what everyone to stay in the dark and wonder. In fact, until I get a valid explanation from someone

Remove Vote Vote Kaschan

Its just temporary, but any info is good IMO, and the only "reliable" evidence is the CF. Only way to get this is to kill. (lynch or NK).

Edit: didn't bold

This post has been edited by Kessobahn: 03 December 2008 - 07:08 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Day 1, a little under slightly less than 23 h left

17 of you are still alive (Thyrllan, Rashan, Ruse, Kaschan, D'riss, Kessobahn, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Shadow, Tennes, Fener, Silanah, Mockra, Omtose, Emurlahn, Hood's Path)

9 votes to lynch or go to night

2 votes for Omtose : Liosan, Emurlahn
1 vote for Hood's Path : Korlat
1 vote for Kaschan: Kessobahn
1 vote for Kessobahn: Omtose,

12 people have not voted: Thyrllan, Rashan, Kaschan, D'riss, Shadow, Tennes, Fener, Mockra, Hood's Path, Silanah, Gamelon, Ruse

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 03 December 2008 - 07:15 PM

[Kaschan]

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 12:08 PM, said:

 Kaschan, on Dec 3 2008, 12:08 PM, said:

... there's really nothing to be seen. Kesso is trying too hard ... but there's always at least one or two of the "let's talk game mechanics!" eager beavers on Day 1. I await reliable evidence ...

Here. Kas, why is it bad. Discussion of any game aspected mechanic(roles, type, etc.) gets people to talk and improves chances of a slip up. Again, scum what everyone to stay in the dark and wonder. In fact, until I get a valid explanation from someone(lynch or NK).

I never said it was a bad thing.

[Thyrllan]

Morning all! Well the usual first day spamfest did nt last so long this game and it looks like peeps actualy are gonna ty and play this game. I was gonna vote for Kessobahn cos I do not rember that name from reading SE and he was a constant reminder of that fact. Also glad we aint gonna have 2 days of discusion about the game rules


edit. Not sure if I need a new keyboard or a dictionary. sorry peeps just got my stupid head on

This post has been edited by Thyrllan: 03 December 2008 - 07:23 PM

[Liosan]

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 05:08 PM, said:

 Omtose, on Dec 3 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

Ok, so we've established that no one has time right now to post. And since I do have time and have no one interesting(Korlat isn't interesting) enough to talk to I spam. So, what now? Game mechanics? Not a merc game, right? or was it not a cult game, might be a merc game, cant remember. But I assume ghosts(scum) vs. Ghost busters(no idea , maybe mercs?) with innos(town) in between. Anyone got any ideas?

looks like someone is trying to boost there post count

Better than pulling a Silencer and posting once a day and getting the win for team evil. And that was actually what i consider a contribution post. Not a post padding post.

Hey! I object to that!

 Omtose, on Dec 3 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 11:08 AM, said:

 Omtose, on Dec 3 2008, 11:02 AM, said:

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 10:56 AM, said:

Ok, so we've established that no one has time right now to post. And since I do have time and have no one interesting(Korlat isn't interesting) enough to talk to I spam. So, what now? Game mechanics? Not a merc game, right? or was it not a cult game, might be a merc game, cant remember. But I assume ghosts(scum) vs. Ghost busters(no idea , maybe mercs?) with innos(town) in between. Anyone got any ideas?

looks like someone is trying to boost there post count

Better than pulling a Silencer and posting once a day and getting the win for team evil. And that was actually what i consider a contribution post. Not a post padding post.

So you are saying that posting about strippers and dirty stripper poles is better than only posting when you have something helpful about the game to say?

You, sir, win one internet!

 Kessobahn, on Dec 3 2008, 05:28 PM, said:

After the last game I mus admit, I am tired of non posters skating to day 5 while those of us that actually play the game and enjoy it get picked off. Not advocating lynching lowest posters(yet), but if you cant at least type a few sentences(yes even if they mean nothing (see also Ments non-agressive playstyle last game)) then why sign up. Its not whoever survives to the end, its find the scum and kill them. Kill them and win. Really, it is a disease that self preservation is more important than team victory, thats wrong and something that team evil feeds and feeds off of. If we are going to find scummy behavior, we need info, even 100 posts with nothing in them gives us some info. but hiding and hoping to make it to the final 5 or 6 players, even if you lose gives us nothing.

~End mini rant.

Self-preservation is not good on inno team. It is PURE UNADULTERATED WIN on the evil team. As you all found out last game, no?

:biggrin:

But, for the moment, Kesso must get my vote.

Remove Vote
Vote Kessobahn

[Kessobahn]

 Emurlahn, on Dec 3 2008, 02:04 PM, said:

End of story, end of rant.

First, glad you responded and this is a debate, no hard feelings cool? cool. My response. Bullshit. I am not attacking low posters(said that 3 times now). I am attacking those who post this shit

"sorry, posting to avoid modkill, maybe more tomorrow"(RL issues are good but if it continues for longet than day 2 its not helpful at all to your team if you are inno)
or
"nothing happening, back later" (again if you repeatedly do this you are not helping)
or

 Liosan, on Dec 3 2008, 03:16 AM, said:

Vote Omtose for voting an account for a previous game. ^^

which is Liosans only post and this was 6 hours ago.

So no, I am not against low posters, I am against people who refuse to contribute out of a self preservation mode, that only helps the fuking killers.

[Kessobahn]

Oh look, Liosans on and hes voting the vocal guy, for no apparent reason, you my frend may be scum.

[Liosan]

Anywho, I spy an non-invisible Thryllan, and 3 anonymous users. Who's on?

[Liosan]

Oh, really, Kesso? Out of my post, you decided that I'd voted you for being fucking VOCAL? Dude, I'm voting for you for your attitude, and the shit you're giving people for their play-style.

OK, sure, you've since clarified that that was not the area you were picking on. Fine. I was reading up and made my vote as I went!

My first vote. Day one. Spam-day. What do you care if it's random, meaningless? Omtose's own vote was for someone using an account in the previous game that was a symp FFS!

[Gamelon]

Kessobahn, I was willing to cut you some nice slack early on in the day, but damned if your attitude ain't getting on all our nerves.

Kessobahn

Learn your lesson and stop being so dang aggresive and annoying.

[Gamelon]

And I'll tell you why discussing roles and game mechanics is a bad idea. Cus we ain't got not one bit of evidence, not one hint, of what roles could possibly be around. If I was scum, hell, I'd be pointing us all in the direction of killers if I was a FM, for example.

Either you make a case, get yourself some evidence to back up your case and be passionate about that, or you go cool off.

If this was on the certain other boards, you'd be modkilled around about now.